Mary Co-Redemptrix ... Pope says No and I am confused

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Cathoholic said:
CCC 618b In fact Jesus desires to associate with his REDEEMING sacrifice those who were to be its first beneficiaries.456 This is achieved supremely in the case of his mother . . .
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That is very important. All Christians–by the grace of the One Mediator-- assist Christ (by cooperating with his undeserved grace) with their prayers and suffering.

But Mary’s role in this is “singular”, which is the word repeatedly used by Vatican II. Please notice in the quotation below how God’s decree of the Incarnation was to happen through Mary. In other words, God chose to make salvation uniquely dependent on the cooperation of Mary. God can do as He wills, and this was the choice He made.
61. Predestined from eternity by that decree of divine providence which determined the incarnation of the Word to be the Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin was on this earth the virgin Mother of the Redeemer, and above all others and in a singular way the generous associate and humble handmaid of the Lord. She conceived, brought forth and nourished Christ. She presented Him to the Father in the temple, and was united with Him by compassion as He died on the Cross. In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace.
Lumen gentium
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commenter said:
I can’t speak for that other poster, who I don’t know. But I recall the tremendous, spiritually productive outpouring of devotion to Mary in my childhood. To a large extent this was shamefully discarded in the late 1960s, by some pastors, bishops, and especially, by most sisters and Religious educators.
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Right. We don’t need to presently define a new Marian dogma regarding Mary’s role in salvation, about which much has already been said by Popes and by Vatican II.

But to have healing renewal in the Church, we do need a major revival of filial devotion to our “Mother in the order of grace”, as Vatican II calls the Mother of God.

We need to understand how close Mary is to every human person, and also how great she is due to being the Mother of God.

If we Catholics will contemplate and lovingly adhere to what the Popes and Vatican II have already written about Mary, we will be pleasing our Lord very much.

Here is Blessed Pope Pius IX in his Apostolic Constitution defining the Immaculate Conception:
Therefore, far above all the angels and all the saints so wondrously did God endow her with the abundance heavenly gifts poured from the treasury of his divinity that this mother, ever absolutely free of all stain of sin, all fair and perfect, would possess that fullness of holy innocence and sanctity than which, under God, one cannot even imagine anything greater, and which, outside of God, no mind can succeed in comprehending fully.
Ineffabilis Deus - Papal Encyclicals
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EvangelistVictor said:
Pope Francis appeared to flatly reject proposals in some theological circles to add “co-redemptrix” to the list of titles of the Virgin Mary, saying the mother of Jesus never took anything that belonged to her son,
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The correct understanding is that every good thing that Mary received she received from her Son in union with the Father and Holy Spirit therefore it does belong more to Him than it does to her. - The Incarnation was work of the Holy Spirit but yet the Father and Son are still involved in that -
She is His good work.
I’m not sure what Pope Francis meant, But then , I wish he would go into more detail to explain What he is teaching

Even when Saint Joseph did good things for her it was the grace of Jesus working through him that enabled him to do that

John
 
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JohnR77 said:
As for the answer please consider these 2 websites.
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I dont want the answer from some very smart people who did a lots of research… I want the people here to answer.

Does Mary stand between you and Jesus?
 
@annad347,

When I look at Our Blessed Mother, I gaze at her with deep reverence and love as the Mother of God and the Mother of the Church. When I pass by a statue of her, I often touch it and say, “ I love you, Mom. “

Her example of bravery, faith, hope, love and holiness, and what she did for God and us her ornery children; deeply inspires me whenever I think about her.

As for your question: When I look at my Mother, she points at her Son and my Lord as says, “ Do as He tells you. “ as she’s praying for me.
 
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annad347 said:
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JohnR77:
As for the answer please consider these 2 websites.
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annad347 said:
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JohnR77:
As for the answer please consider these 2 websites.
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I dont want the answer from some very smart people who did a lots of research… I want the people here to answer.

Does Mary stand between you and Jesus?
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No.
I do pray to Mary, joining my prayers to hers
Neither does the Bible which I read stand between me and Jesus. Neither do the friends I may ask for their intercessory prayer. They pray to Jesus for me but not instead of me. They are not “between” me and Jesus in the sense of blocking my view, or substituting for me to Jesus, or to Jesus, instead of me.

I also ask my patron saint to intercede. But Mary has a unique role in the plan of salvation, recognized by the Catholic Church but intended by God, in the Incarnation. Eastern Orthodox Christians and the early Protestant reformers recognized that role.

Modern Protestants have not only rejected Catholic teaching on Mary, but their own Protestant roots as well.
 
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Sorry didnt mean to upset you with my question, its just something I wanted to know.
 
BigRon said:
I was always confused by this one. Is she still a/the mediatrix?
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From Lumen Gentium …

Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16)

This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.(17*)*
In other words… Not Redemptrix - or - Co-Redemptrix

The pope’s announcement merely re-iterates what has been.

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The Second Vatican Council did not teach Catholics to reject the term or orthodox understanding of “Co-redemptrix”.

Vatican II did state the following:
This union of the Mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to His death (Lumen Gentium 57)
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The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows His power. (Lumen Gentium 60)
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annad347 said:
Thank you. Not really, I still dont understand… so I’ll just add it to the list of questions I have for Jesus when I see him.
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I don’t think that the question is really “does Mary get in the way of my relationship with Christ?”… I think it’s “do I perceive that Mary stands in the way?”.

And, as a follow-up: “if I have the mistaken perception that she does, how can I resolve that mistaken notion?”
 
Gorgias said:
I don’t think that the question is really “does Mary get in the way of my relationship with Christ?”… I think it’s “do I perceive that Mary stands in the way?”.
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no I mean Does Mary stand between you and Jesus?

Is Mary to Jesus what Jesus is to The Father?
Gorgias said:
And, as a follow-up: “if I have the mistaken perception that she does, how can I resolve that mistaken notion?”
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Okay, but in order to resolve a mistake you need to know its a mistake.

If people say yes to my question do they believe its a mistake? Is it a mistake? Maybe they believe Mary does stand between them and Jesus… like when a child stands behind mommy when they know they did a naughty thing.

Maybe they believe when Mary ascended into heaven she became one with God as Jesus became one with God, wasn’t that what Jesus wanted for us to become one with The Father?

Which is why I ask, does Mary stand between you and Jesus and if she does what does that mean?

@Michael16, it was @commenter I thought I upset with my question but thank you for letting me know I didn’t upset you.
 
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Here is Pope St. John Paul II in the Encyclical “Mother of the Redeemer”:
At Cana in Galilee there is shown only one concrete aspect of human need, apparently a small one of little importance (“They have no wine”). But it has a symbolic value: this coming to the aid of human needs means, at the same time, bringing those needs within the radius of Christ’s messianic mission and salvific power. Thus there is a mediation: Mary places herself between her Son and mankind in the reality of their wants, needs and sufferings. She puts herself “in the middle,” that is to say she acts as a mediatrix not as an outsider, but in her position as mother. She knows that as such she can point out to her Son the needs of mankind, and in fact, she “has the right” to do so. Her mediation is thus in the nature of intercession: Mary “intercedes” for mankind.
http://www.vatican.va/content/john-.../hf_jp-ii_enc_25031987_redemptoris-mater.html
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annad347 said:
Maybe they believe when Mary ascended into heaven she became one with God as Jesus became one with God, wasn’t that what Jesus wanted for us to become one with The Father
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Mary never ascended into heaven, she was assumed. Jesus ascended.

Mary, like us hopefully, never becomes one with the Father in the sense of joining the Godhead but is in unity with the Trinity.
 
The Mother of God does not act as a barrier between us and Him. She does unite us to Him as our Mother in the order of grace.

Here is Pope Leo XIII in the encyclical “Octobri Mense”:

“The Eternal Son of God, about to take upon Him our nature for the saving and ennobling of man, and about to consummate thus a mystical union between Himself and all mankind, did not accomplish His design without adding there the free consent of the elect Mother, who represented in some sort all human kind, according to the illustrious and just opinion of St. Thomas, who says that the Annunciation was effected with the consent of the Virgin standing in the place of humanity.(5) With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ.(6) Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother. How great are the goodness and mercy revealed in this design of God! What a correspondence with the frailty of man!”
http://www.vatican.va/content/leo-x...nts/hf_l-xiii_enc_22091891_octobri-mense.html
 
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