Mary in Islam

[Sister_Amy]

4:159, 3:55, 19:33, and 43:61

 

[ralphinal]

4:159, 3:55, 19:33, and 43:61

Sister Amy,

Are these verses in the Koran? Are they for me? If so, let me know and I’ll read them.

Thanks

 

[Sister_Amy]

I am sorry that the words of God in Genesis irk you. It is what he said. “It is not good for man to be alone.” In Christianity, your main purpose is to love God, serve God, and parise God in this life so that you may do the same in the next.

But Genesis apparently says my purpose in life is to keep man company. The Qur’an teaches that man and woman were created from a single soul–neither is better than the other.

To your second point, what was the purpose of the sign? A sign indicates something. Also, God does not perform pointless miracles. What was the reason for this one?

What is the purpose of the sign? The purpose of all the signs are the same–proof that the Messenger is sent by God.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Sister Amy,

Are these verses in the Koran? Are they for me? If so, let me know and I’ll read them.

Thanks

Sorry, those were for AgnosTheist who was asking if the return of Jesus were in the Qur’an.

 

[rinnie]

Raphinal, This question is for you, Not to condem you just asking, Now do you believe that Jesus didnt come Yet? Or what i am asking is that what the Islam Religion believes.

 

[ralphinal]

But Genesis apparently says my purpose in life is to keep man company. The Qur’an teaches that man and woman were created from a single soul–neither is better than the other.

I honestly think that most Muslims are truly trying to follow the teachings of God. I really do. If what you say is true, why has the concept of the equality of Women that you claim is in Islam not overcome the culture in these countries?

What is the purpose of the sign? The purpose of all the signs are the same–proof that the Messenger is sent by God.

Thank you. Now we are getting somewhere. Jesus was born of a virgin, according to Islam, to show his authority. Why were no other prophets given such an proof? Muhammid himself cannot claim this. Also, if having the Koran is proof enough for Muhammid, why did God counteract the laws of nature for Jesus? After all, Jesus taught with the authority from God as well.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Sorry, those were for AgnosTheist who was asking if the return of Jesus were in the Qur’an.

I was asking where in the Quran it says that Jesus will RULE the earth on his return. The verses you gave did not answer that question.

 

[Verisimilitude]

There were witnesses, among the Companions of Muhammad, to the revelation. His wife Umm Salamah observed the angel, as did some other Companions in a group including 'Umar (I can’t recall who else was there,sorry) when the angel visited Muhammad for a lesson, although revelation is not involved. There are other witnesses to actual revelation who did not see the angel, but since not all revelation was with the angel being present physically/visibly, we have reports of Muhammad receiving revelation in the company of others and how he would become sweaty, etc during it, and once he was laying on his wife’s knee and she reported that he suddenly became very very heavy so that she thought her leg would be crushed. So you have witnesses. But you did not witness it, so how can I ask you to accept these reports? (These are in authentic “Sahih” books of hadith by the way.) Does this prove to you that the word is true?

You need to quote/source the haith to make such a claim that others observed the demon so that we can see if it is a reliable source- as much as any can be deemed reliable from them. I accept many as truthfull we just differ on the meaning of them.

Those that saw Mohammed have a fever or eplieptic type fit proves nothing. Mohamed related he heard bells that revealed revelations, or a dream, or just a thought popped into his head and became revelations. Many were in his personal favor so context is everything- as it always is.

But I do BELIEVE that the Qur’an is a miracle. You could say that I am convinced of it. But not because any man convinced me, rather just because I read it and believed it.

I too have read it, cover to cover at least 3 times and re-readings of many verses until they could be put into context. I read it first without any narratives, and then with helpfull naratives and and other resource materials that were often more fair to Mohammed than I would have been. After reading it the 2nd time I was convinced the author of the verses was without a doubt, Not God. Not the God of Abraham and not a legitimate prophet in His name. allah may mean god like diety means god, but diety does not mean God of Abraham.

How much Mohammed made up himself is nearly irellevant but there is a clue in the Koran that tells us who was in the cave at Hira with him regardless of how much else it said to Mohammed later. Who roughed him up before chasing him off to his wife Kadija in abject fear, and who gave the more significant commands of the Quran that have casued the most damage to humanity.

In fact it is more than a clue. I beleive and am convinced it is a direct quote from the true Quranic author, cave visitor, bell ringer, and all around bad… well…you tell me who/what. In fact I will give two quotes. One from the Koran and one from Scripture.

Qur’an truth

quote said: "O my Lord! Because you misled me, I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (mankind) on the earth, and I shall mislead them all.
( سورة الحجر , Al-Hijr, Chapter #15, Verse #39)

[/quote]

Scripture Truth:

John 8:44
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.

I am sure it is unavoidable to be offended when someone calls your whole belief a lie, but truth is not negotiable and…well… True, when a lie is always false even in the name or intent of goodness. It is not my intent to offend unnesessarily but the rare truth in the Quran from the Father of lies is the most obvious proof- if you want one- to the veracity of what should be held as true.

 

[R_not]

YOU said Muslims believe Jesus had a human, “unknown” father.

But that’s not true.

Muslims believe Jesus had NO father, and the Qur’an is justification for this belief. Mary asks Gabriel, as reported in the Qur’an, “How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?” See Qur’an 19:20

I literally proved you wrong and you called me “looloo.”

You worry about that sort of nonsense when you have your fellow muslims slaughtering others?! Who gives a rip what muslims believe about Christ, Mary, or anything that either a Christian or Jew believes in?! The muslims don’t care about it except to fool us with this ‘peacefulness’ while they immigrate, have uncontrolled birthrates, and immigrate some more so they can lull us into apathy before… boom! Our heads are rolling or we are enslaved, raped, tortured and forced to convert or lead a life of pure awfulness.

You proved no one wrong except yourself.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I honestly think that most Muslims are truly trying to follow the teachings of God. I really do. If what you say is true, why has the concept of the equality of Women that you claim is in Islam not overcome the culture in these countries?

Spiritually women have always and are always viewed as equal by Muslims. But when people (read men) want to gain power, women are always the most easily oppressed. Remember that Muslim countries have been ruled by women and that places where women are oppressed are where the most ignorant tribal cultures reign–and not the law of Islam.

Thank you. Now we are getting somewhere. Jesus was born of a virgin, according to Islam, to show his authority. Why were no other prophets given such an proof? Muhammid himself cannot claim this. Also, if having the Koran is proof enough for Muhammid, why did God counteract the laws of nature for Jesus? After all, Jesus taught with the authority from God as well.

The answer is, they were.

Jesus was born of a virgin, he was able to talk in the cradle (according to Qur’an although this is not a Christian belief), and he was able to heal the sick and raise the dead. But this was God’s power.

Moses was saved in the basket and raised in the house of Pharaoh, but he saw the burning bush, his hand turned to illness and well again, his staff turned into a snake. This was also performed in the court, his snake devouring the snakes of the magicians. He parted the Red Sea, brought water from a stone in the dessert. Constant reminders to the Children of Israel that he was a Messenger from God.

Joseph was given the ability to interpret dreams.

Saalih (another prophet in the Qur’an, but who wasn’t mentioned in the Bible that I know of) was given a proof, a camel.

And there were many peoples who were destroyed–the city of Lot and other cities, destroyed by earthquakes and the like after they did not heed the warning.

So it wasn’t only for Jesus that God “counteracted the laws of nature.”

 

[AgnosTheist]

Remember that Muslim countries have been ruled by women

that has been extremely rare. and practically impossible if the woman is second, third or 4th wife. for anything but the first is cheap.

Hey got the verses yet? Honestly I have no idea where muslims got the idea that jesus will rule.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I was asking where in the Quran it says that Jesus will RULE the earth on his return. The verses you gave did not answer that question.

4:159 is the answer,

And to make it abundantly clear: son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) **as a just ruler **and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and nobody will accept charitable gifts.”

 

[Sister_Amy]

You worry about that sort of nonsense when you have your fellow muslims slaughtering others?! ** Who gives a rip what muslims believe about Christ, Mary, or anything that either a Christian or Jew believes in?! ** The muslims don’t care about it except to fool us with this ‘peacefulness’ while they immigrate, have uncontrolled birthrates, and immigrate some more so they can lull us into apathy before… boom! Our heads are rolling or we are enslaved, raped, tortured and forced to convert or lead a life of pure awfulness.

You proved no one wrong except yourself.

This is beginning to get amusing. I proved you wrong and now you are lashing out. You feel threatened by Muslim beliefs about Mary and Christ?

 

[ralphinal]

Sister Mary,

Thank you for being so patient with me.

What I meant to say is why have other prophets not been given such outlandish proofs? And why is Jesus’s the only one that pre-dates his mission? Moses being found in a basket is not that big a deal. The burning bush and signs before pharoah are. But they were part of the mission. What prophet had miracles BEFORE he started?

 

[Sister_Amy]

that has been extremely rare. and practically impossible if the woman is second, third or 4th wife. for anything but the first is cheap.

What do you mean by this?

 

[R_not]

Nonono. This is one Christian belief irks me to no end, that Eve was created so Adam wouldn’t be lonely. As if, as a woman, I have no other purpose but to please a man.

The question is not WHY, because this is a SIGN from God. A proof. Just like the many other miracles about which we read.

Well, you can just fall back on your koran that says women are 1/2 of a man, and have 1/2 the rights of a man. They are to be ruled by men and if they don’t give up themselves to their ‘men’ then they are to be beaten. If the women gets raped and have no witnesses then they get stoned or hanged. (gee, like a guy is going to raise his hand or bring witnesses to his rapes so then he can get stoned or hanged! NOT)

Read the chapter called ‘woman’ in the koran and anyone who wonders how women are treated in islam - you won’t have to wonder anymore.

Then there is ‘honor killings’. The muslim males throw acid, set them on fire, carve them up, beat them, kill them and do whatever they want to a woman - and don’t have to pay for this crime because all they have to say is that it was an ‘honor killing’.

You worry about Eve when you have bigger problems in your ‘religion’.

 

[AgnosTheist]

What do you mean by this?

The United States has yet to elect a woman as president so the fact that PAKISTAN of all places is leading the USA ought to be somewhat embarassing.

yeah but other christian majority nations have. there have been many powerful female christian rulers in the past. women appear to be a more capable ruler. things always get a little better when they are the big boss. makes one wish that god should have been a female.

Why are you insulting 2nd/3rd/4th wives? What do you mean “anything but the first is cheap?”

If you are a second 2nd, 3rd or 4th wife, that implies 2 things:

1-a. That you dont have the qualities to be selected as a first wife.

1-b. Or you dont have the brains to choose a man that will make you a first wife.

1. You dont have what it takes to be a man’s one and only jewel in life.

Woman that cheap, how can they be selected as rulers of a nation???

Hey, the verses?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Sister Mary,

Thank you for being so patient with me.

What I meant to say is why have other prophets not been given such outlandish proofs? And why is Jesus’s the only one that pre-dates his mission? Moses being found in a basket is not that big a deal. The burning bush and signs before pharoah are. But they were part of the mission. What prophet had miracles BEFORE he started?

Sister “Amy.”

I am not denying that the miracles (signs) of Jesus are a big deal–they are. Jesus was special. So was Moses. And many other messengers were special in their own way. Muhammad is special too, because he is the last Messenger, and because he was given the Qur’an and sent to all of mankind.

 

[R_not]

This is beginning to get amusing. I proved you wrong and now you are lashing out. You feel threatened by Muslim beliefs about Mary and Christ?

ok, let us take this slowly… muslims don’t give a rip about Mary.

They only use her to say that Christ was born of her to prove that he was not the Son of God.

(make sure to read the above slowly so maybe you will remember from one post to another what I have written.)

I also say that this thread is inane considering they don’t give a rip about Mary because muslims only care about jihad, and not doing shirk. Everything else is ok - torture, rape, murder, theft, beating up infidels, lying, etc to do against infidels.

You are doing jihad. Your tactic is called taqiyya - or kithman - depending on what sect of islam you are in. It is deception to smooth over islam.

 

[AgnosTheist]

What do you mean by this?

The United States has yet to elect a woman as president so the fact that PAKISTAN of all places is leading the USA ought to be somewhat embarassing.

yeah but other christian majority nations have. there have been many powerful female christian rulers in the past. women appear to be a more capable ruler. things always get a little better when they are the big boss. makes one wish that god should have been a female.

Why are you insulting 2nd/3rd/4th wives? What do you mean “anything but the first is cheap?”

If you are a second 2nd, 3rd or 4th wife, that implies 2 things:

1-a. That you dont have the qualities to be selected as a first wife.

1-b. Or you dont have the brains to choose a man that will make you a first wife.

1. You dont have what it takes to be a man’s one and only jewel in life.

Women that cheap, how can they be selected as rulers of a nation??? Its practically impossible I tell ya!

Hey, the verses?