MARY is She necessary or optional?

[De_Montfort]

I think some or most in the Church think of Our Lady as an option when in fact she is necessary for men to reach the final end Jesus Christ, God Alone.

“Mary IS necessary for salvation because God freely wills it so. She is not optinal. Even more so she is necessary ‘for those who are called to any special perfection.’ ‘It was through Mary that the salvation of the world was begun and it is through her that it must be consummated.’ If Mary is necessary to God in the Incarnation, she is necessary to who share in the Incarnation, since sanctification in nothing more than the extension of ‘the compendium of all mysteries’ the Incarnation of Eternal Wisdom (Jesus Christ).”

 

[bilop]

I think some or most in the Church think of Our Lady as an option when in fact she is necessary for men to reach the final end Jesus Christ, God Alone.

“Mary IS necessary for salvation because God freely wills it so. She is not optinal. Even more so she is necessary ‘for those who are called to any special perfection.’ ‘It was through Mary that the salvation of the world was begun and it is through her that it must be consummated.’ If Mary is necessary to God in the Incarnation, she is necessary to who share in the Incarnation, since sanctification in nothing more than the extension of ‘the compendium of all mysteries’ the Incarnation of Eternal Wisdom (Jesus Christ).”

It is necessary that we accept certain Dogmas about Mary, e.g. Immaculate Conception, Virgin birth, Assumption, etc.

But, I don’t think it is necessary to have a particular devotion to her. No one is required to pray for Mary’s intercession, nor that of any other Saint.

I don’t know why you wouldn’t, but it’s not strictly required for salvation.

God Bless

 

[De_Montfort]

It is necessary that we accept certain Dogmas about Mary, e.g. Immaculate Conception, Virgin birth, Assumption, etc.

But, I don’t think it is necessary to have a particular devotion to her. No one is required to pray for Mary’s intercession, nor that of any other Saint.

I don’t know why you wouldn’t, but it’s not strictly required for salvation.

God Bless

The Saints of the Church say other wise. Kolbe and De Montfort both said she was necessary. Like my quote said above She was necessary at the Incarnation and since we all partake of the Incarnation She is necessary to us because God has willed it so.

 

[bilop]

The Saints of the Church say other wise. Kolbe and De Montfort both said she was necessary. Like my quote said above She was necessary at the Incarnation and since we all partake of the Incarnation She is necessary to us because God has willed it so.

Her role is clearly necessary; I’m talking about individual Catholic’s devotions.

Private revelation of the Saints is not binding, and, as far as I know, the Church has never said anyone must pray for Mary’s intervention.

That said, I do pray for Mary’s intercession, and don’t know why you wouldn’t avail yourself of the most powerful intercessor, but you don’t strictly have to.

God Bless

 

[De_Montfort]

Her role is clearly necessary; I’m talking about individual Catholic’s devotions.

Private revelation of the Saints is not binding, and, as far as I know, the Church has never said anyone must pray for Mary’s intervention.

That said, I do pray for Mary’s intercession, and don’t know why you wouldn’t avail yourself of the most powerful intercessor, but you don’t strictly have to.

God Bless

Hmmm??? Im confused?

Has the Church ever proclaimed Her as being a mere option. Im just curious is all. As far as Ive been taught Saints were men and women of example.

Im trying to figure out where the “option” of Mary comes into play.
God Bless You.

 

[bilop]

Hmmm??? Im confused?

Has the Church ever proclaimed Her as being a mere option. Im just curious is all. As far as Ive been taught Saints were men and women of example.

Im trying to figure out where the “option” of Mary comes into play.
God Bless You.

No, but they haven’t proclaimed devotion to her to be mandatory either.

What I’m saying is a Catholic who believes all the doctrine in re Mary, but never prays to her in particular, and confesses all his mortal sins before death, will be saved.

One does not need to ask Mary’s help to be saved. It’s a great help, and I personally think it’s stupid not to, but it’s not struictly necessary for salvation.

God Bless

 

[De_Montfort]

No, but they haven’t proclaimed devotion to her to be mandatory either.

What I’m saying is a Catholic who believes all the doctrine in re Mary, but never prays to her in particular, and confesses all his mortal sins before death, will be saved.

One does not need to ask Mary’s help to be saved. It’s a great help, and I personally think it’s stupid not to, but it’s not struictly necessary for salvation.

God Bless

If together with the Holy Spirit, Mary and the Holy Spirit form Christ in us, how does that make devotion to Her optional?

From what the Saints have said if you dont have Mary for your Mother you will not have God for your Father either.

What confuses me is when one studies Mary you find in short time She lives only for Christ in Christ. She can lead only to the Lord Jesus. Why would one say “I can do without Her!”

And from what the Saints say if you reject Mary in turn you are rejecting God.

So how can She be optional?!

I mean it’s coming from Holy Saints of the Church, not an everday joe! lol

 

[bilop]

If together with the Holy Spirit, Mary and the Holy Spirit form Christ in us, how does that make devotion to Her optional?

From what the Saints have said if you dont have Mary for your Mother you will not have God for your Father either.

What confuses me is when one studies Mary you find in short time She lives only for Christ in Christ. She can lead only to the Lord Jesus. Why would one say “I can do without Her!”

And from what the Saints say if you reject Mary in turn you are rejecting God.

So how can She be optional?!

I mean it’s coming from Holy Saints of the Church, not an everday joe! lol

I can’t pretend to know the why and wherefore of this issue.

All I know is the teachings of the Church have no requirement of a devotion to Mary for salvation.

IMHO, there’s no good reason not to, but, a person could not have such a devotion and still be saved.

God Bless

 

[JRKH]

If together with the Holy Spirit, Mary and the Holy Spirit form Christ in us, how does that make devotion to Her optional?

Could you point to the official Catholic teaching that states this is how Christ is formed in us? Not a saint’s writings…as wonderful as that might be…but something official…Catechism? Something??
Thanks

From what the Saints have said if you don’t have Mary for your Mother you will not have God for your Father either.

This is clear…God is our Father, therefore Jesus is our brother and his mother is our mother…

What confuses me is when one studies Mary you find in short time She lives only for Christ in Christ. She can lead only to the Lord Jesus. Why would one say “I can do without Her!”

What confuses me is when a person says, “I direct my prayers directly to Jesus”, another person gets their shorts in a knot because they didn’t go through Mary…

And from what the Saints say if you reject Mary in turn you are rejecting God.

Again - this is clearly defined in the doctrines and dogma’s of the Church…No need for a saint to tell us this…

So how can She be optional?!

I guess I don’t understand what you mean my "optional’? Mary is an integral part of our salvation. She is our Spiritual mother and a powerful intercessor. So - no, she is not optional.
That said, if you mean that we must place Mary between ourselves and Jesus in all things…No - this is not a church teaching - it is an optional “Private devotion”

I mean it’s coming from Holy Saints of the Church, not an everyday Joe! lol

Fine…but as already pointed out…the writings of the saints are not binding…they come under the heading of private devotion…and as such they are “optional”…

Peace
James

 

[ConstantineTG]

It depends what you mean by necessary. It is such a loaded word that could be the fine line between veneration and idolatry.

 

[Trishie]

What the Church teaches about Mary’s place in the Church and in our lives.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm

“Redemptoris Mater” Pope John Paul 2

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031987_redemptoris-mater_en.html

 

[sojo]

When I went through RCIA the priest emphasized that devotion to Mary (other than accepting the dogmas regarding her) are not required of a Catholic.

I have since volunteered to assist at two other RCIA classes and both priests concurred with the first one - it is optional and not necessary.

Having said that, I am an example of someone who was very clearly brought to the faith by Mary. I was a non-practicing Jew before my conversion experience, so I do have a particular devotion to our Lady.

This last part is purely speculation, but I cannot imagine Our Lady wanting devotion to herself to be a requirement of Catholicism. Her sole purpose in life seems to be to point us to her Son. If some are able or for some reason connected to how they think and feel are reticent to develop a relationship with her but choose to go directly to her Son, I don’t think she would much mind.

And personally, as a Jew, I would find it quite disrespectful to not show some basic courtesy to my Lord’s mother. Jewish mothers get a lot of respect within that culture.

 

[JRKH]

When I went through RCIA the priest emphasized that devotion to Mary (other than accepting the dogmas regarding her) are not required of a Catholic.

I have since volunteered to assist at two other RCIA classes and both priests concurred with the first one - it is optional and not necessary.

Having said that, I am an example of someone who was very clearly brought to the faith by Mary. I was a non-practicing Jew before my conversion experience, so I do have a particular devotion to our Lady.

This last part is purely speculation, but I cannot imagine Our Lady wanting devotion to herself to be a requirement of Catholicism. Her sole purpose in life seems to be to point us to her Son. If some are able or for some reason connected to how they think and feel are reticent to develop a relationship with her but choose to go directly to her Son, I don’t think she would much mind.

RE: The bolded…This has been my position all along…Why would Mary find it offensive if one addressed their prayers directly to the Father or to Jesus - that is where she wants to point us in the first place?..…The answer of course is that she would NOT take offense nor would God…

Peace
James

 

[po18guy]

And personally, as a Jew, I would find it quite disrespectful to not show some basic courtesy to my Lord’s mother. Jewish mothers get a lot of respect within that culture.

Honoring father and mother is the first commandment with a promise. As well, the way I see it, Mary was irreplaceably important to God first, as she was first conceived of in the Divine intellect. Logically, all of her forebears were also a part of that plan. Since all things created were created through Christ (John 1:3), Mary was imagined, designed and given flesh for the purpose of giving that flesh to her Divine Son. Our Lord created His own mother. Christ conceived of her in His intellect so that she could conceive Him in her womb. She was, in the beginning, with him as an idea, and remained with him ever after - virgin womb to virgin tomb - and is now at His right hand.

Oh, she was a stumbling block for me early on in my Catholicism, but her Son won me over to her through His words in scripture. If God honored and loved her so much that He chose no other way for His Son to take flesh (remembering John the Baptist’s words that God could raise up sons of Abraham from stones), it is the very least we can do to honor in our hearts what God greatly honored first. Is devotion to her optional? Yes, just as love is optional.

 

[chimo]

I believe your relationship grows in time with her. When the Church gives out Mary she must believe it is important enough to be in a relationship with her. The Eastern Church differs on Mary with the Catholic Church only on the approach to establish a beautiful relationship with the Mother of God. The Church of Rome does this outside the Mass while the Eastern Church does get to know Mary within the Divine Liturgy (the equilavent to a Catholic Mass). Mary is mentioned so many times and invoked continously at every Liturgy that the average Easterner will get to know her. That is why the Rosary was developed in the West so that through this devotion the average Catholic can get to know her. It was not necessary for the Orthodox to have this devotion since their relatonship with Mary actually grows more prodominately in and through their Liturgies.

To the Orthodox it is not optional to have devotion to her for she is an integral part of the whole family. No Orthodox who attends the Liturgy regulary would think otherwise. Mary’s presence in Church and in our life teaches how important intercessory prayer is. When we go to Mary it is the same as when we ask the prayers of the Church to intercede to help us. Mary and the Church act within that same function. Jesus is very pleased when we ask the prayers of the Church to intercede for us and He is pleased when we ask help from His Mother. Pope John Paul II often said that the Church has indeed a Marian character attached to it.

 

[Fullness_Found]

I concur with Bilop, JRKH, Trishie, etc…

One of the many functions of the Church’s teaching in the catechism and defined dogmas regarding the Blessed Mother is to prevent people from going too far with their Marian beliefs, as was a bit more common in the middle-ages.

Yes, she is a necessity to the Church, but as far as I am aware, the Scriptures and Early Church Fathers didn’t emphasize the necessity of having a particular type of devotion to her as a prerequisite for salvation, and neither does the Magisterium today. Rather than asking whether Mary is ‘necessary’ or not, I think it would be more helpful to ask what the Church’s official teachings are regarding her and her role, and how she can help us on the path of salvation.

 

[Semper_Zelare]

St. Dominic’s prophecy of the Rosary 1208 A.D.

St. Angelus foretold the stigmata of St. Francis. And St. Dominic said, "One day, Brother Angelus, to your Oder of Carmel the Most Blessed Virgin Mary will give a devotion to be known as the Brown Scapular, and to my Order of Preachers she will give a devotion to be known as the Rosary. One day, through the Rosary and the Scapular, she will save the world."

So, while individually these devotions may not be necessary for salvation. The people that pray the Rosary and live out the devotion of the Scapular are participating in salvation history. Mary plays an important role in salvation history (in more ways than one). But, I have no doubt that many people are saved because of the prayers of the people who do subscribe to these Marian devotions.

I have no reason to take these prophetic words with a grain of salt. I take them literally and believe them whole-heartedly: “One day, through the Rosary and the Scapular, she will save the world” :extrahappy:

 

[ConstantineTG]

St. Dominic’s prophecy of the Rosary 1208 A.D.

St. Angelus foretold the stigmata of St. Francis. And St. Dominic said, "One day, Brother Angelus, to your Oder of Carmel the Most Blessed Virgin Mary will give a devotion to be known as the Brown Scapular, and to my Order of Preachers she will give a devotion to be known as the Rosary. One day, through the Rosary and the Scapular, she will save the world."

So, while individually these devotions may not be necessary for salvation. The people that pray the Rosary and live out the devotion of the Scapular are participating in salvation history. Mary plays an important role in salvation history (in more ways than one). But, I have no doubt that many people are saved because of the prayers of the people who do subscribe to these Marian devotions.

I have no reason to take these prophetic words with a grain of salt. I take them literally and believe them whole-heartedly: “One day, through the Rosary and the Scapular, she will save the world” :extrahappy:

Just be clear that there is a distinction between when Mary saves and when Jesus saves. Salvation is in Jesus Christ alone. Mary saves us through her intercession, she is active in praying for us and guiding us to this day. We should never confuse the word “save” to mean that she herself can bring us salvation. She is an aid in our journey, as with all the saints.

 

[mangy_dog]

I challenge anyone to come up with one Canonized Saint that did not have some sort of devotion or reverence for the Virgin Mary.

It is impossible to love and imitate Jesus Christ and not love and imitate His Blessed Mother.

There isn’t a single Saint that arrives in heaven and Jesus says, " welcome,…oh by the way this is my Mom. You never paid attention to her but hey! you made it to sainthood. Way’da go".

Necessary…ya darn skippy.

The Catholic Church and Mary are united in one and the same vocation-Divine Maternity.

 

[Semper_Zelare]

Just be clear that there is a distinction between when Mary saves and when Jesus saves. Salvation is in Jesus Christ alone. Mary saves us through her intercession, she is active in praying for us and guiding us to this day. We should never confuse the word “save” to mean that she herself can bring us salvation. She is an aid in our journey, as with all the saints.

Those aren’t my words. Those are the words of St. Dominic. If St. Dominic’s words need clarification to a supposedly more intelligent time period than his own, then by all means.

The Holy Spirit floods the world with grace through Mary. Mary doesn’t save, she just happens to be the most used tool for the Holy Spirit to impart grace (a raging torrent of grace to the whole world).