Mary- other children

[John1717]

MaggieOH:

How many times do we have to repeat “MAN-GOD” before you get it? We acknowledge both because we recognize Mary as Theotokos :banghead:

**Are you really as dense as you appear or are you just being obstinate? **

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**The title “mother of God” ignores Christ’s humanity and that is heresy! In Catholicism, the title is used to glorify Mary instead of Christ! **

Do you get it now Harry!!!

 

[MaggieOH]

John1717:

Oh Harry, you always have to assert that I am in error. It must be that you consider yourself to be all knowing and infallible!

I am as infallible as you are. I do not consider myself to be all knowing, but I do know that there are a lot of flaws in the logic of your thinking. Sheesh, you even think that James White and Svendsen know what they are talking about !!! I have heard Svendsen in a debate and he was absolutely hopeless the way that he came across.

The point is, when you left the Catholic Church you walked out on all that she has on offer. You accepted glitter and tinsel when you could have the gold.

The treasures of the Church are rich, and I am not talking about art works, but of the writings of the Church Fathers and all the other writers. We are encouraged to read the Bible and having the whole Bible adds to one’s experience of Scripture.

However, this is off topic, so I will say no more on the subject

 

[MaggieOH]

**Are you really as dense as you appear or are you just being obstinate? **

**The title “mother of God” ignores Christ’s humanity and that is heresy! In Catholicism, the title is used to glorify Mary instead of Christ! **

Do you get it now Harry!!!

Now that you have tried the latest in your diversionary tactics, that is ad hominem, I will let you in on a secret - you are projecting yourself on to others.

Once again, you are trying to tell Catholics what they believe about Theotokos. You are totally unwilling to accept that the purpose of the doctrine is not Mary centred and the title does not glorify Mary like you say.

To properly understand this doctrine you have to read what was written by the early Church Fathers and not some truncated version found in a James White or Eric Svendsen book.

I will just have to see what I can find online to show you that your sources need to be given the same treatment dished out to Wycliffe.

Maggie

 

[MaggieOH]

**Because her title “mother of God” ignores Christ’s humanity and that is heresy! In Catholicism, the title is used to glorify Mary instead of Christ! **

You must be talking about the Fundamentalist Baptist version of the Catholic Church, because you are not talking about what we as Catholics believe.

 

[dennisknapp]

**Are you really as dense as you appear or are you just being obstinate? **

**The title “mother of God” ignores Christ’s humanity and that is heresy! In Catholicism, the title is used to glorify Mary instead of Christ! **

Do you get it now Harry!!!

Hey John1717, if you have enough courage why don’t you join me at
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=38359

Let’s talk about these issues on a thread that was designed for them.

Peace

P.S.

I’ll be waiting

 

[John1717]

MaggieOH:

I am as infallible as you are. I do not consider myself to be all knowing, but I do know that there are a lot of flaws in the logic of your thinking. Sheesh, you even think that James White and Svendsen know what they are talking about !!! I have heard Svendsen in a debate and he was absolutely hopeless the way that he came across.

The point is, when you left the Catholic Church you walked out on all that she has on offer. You accepted glitter and tinsel when you could have the gold.

The treasures of the Church are rich, and I am not talking about art works, but of the writings of the Church Fathers and all the other writers. We are encouraged to read the Bible and having the whole Bible adds to one’s experience of Scripture.

However, this is off topic, so I will say no more on the subject

Harry,
I have also heard the above mentioned men in debates with Catholic apologists and they were so one sided I wonder how these Catholics could call themselves apologists!

My faith and where I worship is not filled with glitter and tinsel. I attend a bible believing church where Christ is exhalted not Mary.
We believe that the Scriptures have authority over the church, not the church over the Scriptures.

The last time I attended a Catholic church, the priest stated, “Don’t read the bible for yourself because you can’t understand it. We’ll interpret it for you.” In the past the Catholic Church placed the bible on it’s index of forbidden books. This doesn’t sound like a church that encouraged bible reading!!!

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

**Because her title “mother of God” ignores Christ’s humanity and that is heresy! In Catholicism, the title is used to glorify Mary instead of Christ! **

Surely you jest Only in your oppinion does it glorify Mary instead of Christ.You see my freind we give all credit to God.We didn’t make Mary God’s mom He did Far beit for any of us to attempt to bellitle an act of God. You don’t thank the giver of all gifts by not aknowledging them.God Bless

 

[MaggieOH]

It seems that there are some who need to be enlightened as to what the Catholic Church really teaches, not what they believe that the Catholic Church teaches. The doctrine of Theotokos is one of those teachings that is being presently distorted in Baptist circles. So I am doing an Internet search to find sources that explain the doctrine according to the minds of the Early Church Fathers:

mb-soft.com/believe/txc/nestoria.htm

ccel.org/fathers/NPNF2-14/4Ephesus/Theotoko.htm

I will be posting further information as I find what is relevant.

 

[MaggieOH]

John1717:

Harry,
I have also heard the above mentioned men in debates with Catholic apologists and they were so one sided I wonder how these Catholics could call themselves apologists!

My faith and where I worship is not filled with glitter and tinsel. I attend a bible believing church where Christ is exhalted not Mary.
We believe that the Scriptures have authority over the church, not the church over the Scriptures.

The last time I attended a Catholic church, the priest stated, “Don’t read the bible for yourself because you can’t understand it. We’ll interpret it for you.” In the past the Catholic Church placed the bible on it’s index of forbidden books. This doesn’t sound like a church that encouraged bible reading!!!

You talk as one who makes false and slanderous statements:

1. The Bible, that is a proper translation of the Bible has never been placed on the Index of Forbidden Books. On the other hand an extremely poor translation with many errors was placed there. I seem to remember reading that it was either the Wycliffe of the Tyndale translation that got this treatment because of the deliberate errors that were to be found.
2. In all of the parishes of the Catholic Church where I have been no priest ever made such a statement. This is something that is stretching the truth and yes I remember Sandra making a very similar false claim. I guess it must be on the card that you get for how to handle Catholic objections.

My first Bible is 40 years old. I used it in school as I studied both the New and the Old Testament. I am involved with the Scripture Study course in my parish. We are encouraged to think freely and it is a lie to state otherwise.

I doubt that you ever were a Catholic. It is a line that I heard from Sandra and she could not give any details regarding the Mass, let alone any proper doctrine. The same is obvious in what you are stating.

You claim things that have never been true. I am surprised that you did not come out with the one about how the priest never reads the Bible, and if you had been a Catholic you would know that is not true.

The understanding that you have of Mary is also distorted, just as it is distorted in any Fundamentalist Church that has strayed so far from the Truth.

 

[Mickey]

John1717:

My faith and where I worship is not filled with glitter and tinsel. I attend a bible believing church where Christ is exhalted not Mary.
We believe that the Scriptures have authority over the church, not the church over the Scriptures.

The last time I attended a Catholic church, the priest stated, “Don’t read the bible for yourself because you can’t understand it. We’ll interpret it for you.” In the past the Catholic Church placed the bible on it’s index of forbidden books. This doesn’t sound like a church that encouraged bible reading!!!

It is obvious that Nestorius was never Catholic. The anti-Catholic rhetoric, the false depictions of Catholic belief, the ignoring of valid refutation to his weak arguments.

Hey Nestorius, perhaps you should find a nice forum where you and James White can bask in your twisted interpretations.

Seriously though Nestorius. Why are you here? It is surely not to discover the truth about the Catholic Church. And you are not going to evangelize anyone with your hateful rhetoric. Why are you here?

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_28_113.gif %between%

 

[Benadam]

John1717:

My faith and where I worship is not filled with glitter and tinsel. I attend a bible believing church where Christ is exhalted not Mary.

After as much reasonable evidence from scripture has been applied to the defense of the catholic view of Mary’s role in salvation history for John to continue the discussion he will have to give reason why catholic reasons are unreasonable which he hasn’t shown the ability to directly address.
We believe that the Scriptures have authority over the church, not the church over the Scriptures.
How can the child have authority over a parent?
The scriptures are a fruit of the People of God. Do you really believe that the people who’s lives make visible the Word of God have less authority than the words that describe their lives?

 

[Axion]

**Are you really as dense as you appear or are you just being obstinate? **

**The title “mother of God” ignores Christ’s humanity and that is heresy! In Catholicism, the title is used to glorify Mary instead of Christ! **

Do you get it now Harry!!!

I have already asked you how you can dare to come here detracting Catholic Doctrine, when you are not even a Christian yourself. Your statements indicate that you are a subscriber to the Gnostic and Nestorian Heresies.

I challenged you on your statement that Mary was not Mother of God and that God could not be born of Mary.

And YOU HAVE FAILED UTTERLY TO RESPOND.

Yours are seriously heretical statements since they denies the incarnation, and the divinity of Jesus. By denying both of these things, it also denies the atonement and the redemption. For only by God dying for our sins can the price of all the sins of the world be paid.

Can a man’s death pay the price of the sins of the entire world? No.

Was Jesus two separate persons as you allege - one who had no Father and no mother???

These are the pits of heresy and denial into which you fall by trying to demean the Virgin Mary. Such statements as you have posted above deny the very essentials of Christianity - The fact that God became man and died for our sins.

I fail to see how someone can deny anything so central to the Christian faith, and then dare to come to this forum and try to correct Catholics on their theological views!

 

[Mickey]

Axion:

I have already asked you how you can dare to come here detracting Catholic Doctrine, when you are not even a Christian yourself. Your statements indicate that you are a subscriber to the Gnostic and Nestorian Heresies.

I challenged you on your statement that Mary was not Mother of God and that God could not be born of Mary.

And YOU HAVE FAILED UTTERLY TO RESPOND.

Yours are seriously heretical statements since they denies the incarnation, and the divinity of Jesus. By denying both of these things, it also denies the atonement and the redemption. For only by God dying for our sins can the price of all the sins of the world be paid.

Can a man’s death pay the price of the sins of the entire world? No.

Was Jesus two separate persons as you allege - one who had no Father and no mother???

These are the pits of heresy and denial into which you fall by trying to demean the Virgin Mary. Such statements as you have posted above deny the very essentials of Christianity - The fact that God became man and died for our sins.

I fail to see how someone can deny anything so central to the Christian faith, and then dare to come to this forum and try to correct Catholics on their theological views!

AMEN, AXION!!!
:clapping:

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[hlgomez]

**

**Because her title “mother of God” ignores Christ’s humanity and that is heresy! In Catholicism, the title is used to glorify Mary instead of Christ! **

**

John 1717,

**I think the answer to your question relies on how you view the ONE PERSON of Christ. Catholic doctrine doesn’t–I mean doesn’t-divide the Person of Christ. Even if you say the “Mother of God”–it affirms that in Christ, there is only one Person, and that in this Person is inseparable union of the two natures. **

Your views are basically Nestorian in spirit. Have you read the Anathemas to the Nestorionists? Here are the two important ones:

1. If anyone does not confess that the Word from God the Father has been united by hypostasis with the flesh and is one Christ with his own flesh, and is therefore God and man together, let him be anathema.
2. If anyone divides in the one Christ the hypostases after the union, joining them only by a conjunction of dignity or authority or power, and not rather by a coming together in a union by nature, let him be anathema.

Pio

 

[cyprian]

Benadam:

what makes you think He doesn’t now?

Prayers for the dead in Maccabees 12:?. Because of this, Maccabees is said to have been added to our Bible when actually, HISTORICALLY, it was removed.
Peace and love.
He is All
i am nothing

 

[sfp]

John1717:

Harry,
I have also heard the above mentioned men in debates with Catholic apologists and they were so one sided I wonder how these Catholics could call themselves apologists!

My faith and where I worship is not filled with glitter and tinsel. I attend a bible believing church where Christ is exhalted not Mary.
We believe that the Scriptures have authority over the church, not the church over the Scriptures.

The last time I attended a Catholic church, the priest stated, “Don’t read the bible for yourself because you can’t understand it. We’ll interpret it for you.” In the past the Catholic Church placed the bible on it’s index of forbidden books. This doesn’t sound like a church that encouraged bible reading!!!

I actually thought you were here to have a real debate, John1717, but it is obviously apparent that you are a liar and have absolutely no interest in growing in your faith.

Your attacks using false information only make you look ignorant, I hope you realize.

Why do you ignore answering my posts?..it is obvious that you do not have a reasonable answer.

Again, if it could be proven that you are wrong about Marian doctrine, WOULD YOU WANT TO KNOW IT?

If not, then you are here for the wrong reasons.

 

[John1717]

Axion:

I have already asked you how you can dare to come here detracting Catholic Doctrine, when you are not even a Christian yourself. Your statements indicate that you are a subscriber to the Gnostic and Nestorian Heresies.

Why do you continue to call Mary God’s mother when anyone with an ounce of logic knows that GOD HAS NO MOTHER!!!

**You say that I am not a Christian yet it is you who deny the sufficiency of Christ’s death on the cross each time you attend Mass! You say that you are a Christian but for you, Christ isn’t enough! You also need Mary, the Sacraments, the Church and your good works to obtain salvation. **

I challenged you on your statement that Mary was not Mother of God and that God could not be born of Mary.

Please enlighten me, just when was God born???

And YOU HAVE FAILED UTTERLY TO RESPOND.

It may be that I have to work long hours and don’t have a lot of time to respond to every reply!

Yours are seriously heretical statements since they denies the incarnation, and the divinity of Jesus. By denying both of these things, it also denies the atonement and the redemption. For only by God dying for our sins can the price of all the sins of the world be paid.

God did not die!!! The God-man Jesus Christ died!

Can a man’s death pay the price of the sins of the entire world? No.

I agree 100%

Was Jesus two separate persons as you allege - one who had no Father and no mother???

Please don’t put words into my mouth!
God, in His divinity, cannot be conceived and born any more than He can die. It cannot therefore be said of Mary that she bore God(and hence, bears the designation “mother of God”), any more than it can be said of the Jews that they killed God. Jesus in His humanity had a mother; Jesus in His divinity was "without father or mother; without genealogy, without begining of days or end of life!

These are the pits of heresy and denial into which you fall by trying to demean the Virgin Mary. Such statements as you have posted above deny the very essentials of Christianity - The fact that God became man and died for our sins.

Are you saying, that for a time, God ceased to exist!!!

I fail to see how someone can deny anything so central to the Christian faith, and then dare to come to this forum and try to correct Catholics on their theological views!

**The problem is, Catholics have made God too small! You believe that mere men have the power to call the Creator of the Universe out of heaven, place Him on an altar and re-present Him as a sacrifice again and again, thousands of times each day. Then you actually believe that you can eat God! You have a very small God indeed!!! **

 

[John1717]

Lisa4Catholics:

Surely you jest Only in your oppinion does it glorify Mary instead of Christ.You see my freind we give all credit to God.We didn’t make Mary God’s mom He did Far beit for any of us to attempt to bellitle an act of God. You don’t thank the giver of all gifts by not aknowledging them.God Bless

So you think God has a mom??? Please tell me, when was God born???

 

[John1717]

sfp:

I actually thought you were here to have a real debate, John1717, but it is obviously apparent that you are a liar and have absolutely no interest in growing in your faith.

If growing in my faith means that I must accept the unbiblical teachings about Mary, I’m not interested! I am however, interested in truth!

Your attacks using false information only make you look ignorant, I hope you realize.

My information is false according to whom???

Why do you ignore answering my posts?..it is obvious that you do not have a reasonable answer.

You may have unlimited time but I do not!

Again, if it could be proven that you are wrong about Marian doctrine, WOULD YOU WANT TO KNOW IT?

If not, then you are here for the wrong reasons.

I believed Marian doctrine for 47 years until God opened my eyes to the truth found in His Word!

 

[John1717]

AMEN, AXION!!!
:clapping:

Are you also a blind man following blind guides?

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