Mary's place in the Catholic Church-Is it too high?

[CheesusPowerKid]

Ignatius:

Sadly, it looks like April Hosen is just another hit and run poster. No discussion with any of the posters here. If people feel that they have some valid point, they should enter into a discussion.

not true, she’s an incredibly active member of this forum! you should check out some of her other posts and discussions, I just don’t think she’s been around much for this one!

 

[april_hosen]

Ignatius:

Sadly, it looks like April Hosen is just another hit and run poster. No discussion with any of the posters here. If people feel that they have some valid point, they should enter into a discussion.

Hi Ignatius,
I’m sorry you feel that way about me. But its true I havent posted here in a while. My appologies, but its not like I havent tried. My computer goes crazy everytime I try to post more than a paragraph. So I will make more of an effort to post more frequently. :tiphat:

 

[april_hosen]

Ignatius:

April,

Do you have children? Can you imagine seeing your child so brutally beaten, reviled, and tortured to death in such a way as was the crucifixion? This took the fullness of Gods grace to endure. She took on that suffering so that her Son might bring salvation to the world. We should at the very least respect that.
Also, the commandment tells us honour your father and mother. If God is our father and Christ is our brother, than Mary is our mother and we owe her that honour. Do you know of any son who is not pleased with showing honour to his mother? Is not Jesus a perfect Son?

Yours in Christ.

Hello dear Ignatius,
No sir/ mamn I do not have children. But I understand what your getting at. But the thing is she didnt feel near the pain Jesus Christ did. Each one of our faces probably werent running through her mind when her Son when up on the cross. I dont mean to insinuate(sp?) that Catholics dont give God the glory, simply that possibly some Catholics just dont seem to give God all the glory. I give Mary the deepest of my respects. Appologies for my tardiness.

 

[april_hosen]

RyanL:

April, my friend,

Would you please read Rev 11:19-12:17 and let me know what you think is going on? Also, don’t use your footnotes (they’re probably very biased). Just read the words, think about who each person is, and let me know what you think is going on.

Looking forward to your response,
RyanL

Hi RyanL.
I am overwhelmingly glad to hear from you! Thank you for taking the time. First off I want to say i love Revelations. Coolest book of the Bible in my opinion. Regarding this passage: What seems clear to me is that the woman is an important part but her offspring is the center of attention. It was her offspring not the woman that angered the dragon. It was the fact that the offspring was so pure. Just my opinion.

 

[april_hosen]

On my way:

April, sound like you hold Mary as of having no significance. Catholics do not adore Mary, as some people think. We venerate and honor her. The Angel, Gabriel called her “FULL OF GRACE” and the one who has “FOUND FAVOR WITH GOD.” Her own cousin Elizabeth called her “BLESSED AMONG WOMEN.” Catholics, who follow Scripture, always call her blessed.

When we pray to Mary we are asking for her help. Let me put it to you this way. If you were moving and knew a woman and knew that she had a Son that had a truck, but you did not know the son that well. Wouldn’t you ask the woman to see if she could talk to her Son and see if He could help you. It is the same thing that Catholics do with Mary.

As for your comment about Mary being sinless and not needing a Savior. Mary was saved by the merits of Christ, just as we are. The difference between Mary and other Christians is that her salvation from sin was more perfect. Catholics are freed from original sin at our baptism. Mary was preserved from original sin at her conception. In both cases Jesus is still the Savior.

No Sir/ Mamn,
I do not mean to come off that way. I do indeed know the significance Mary had in Gods plan. As for your anologie, well in applying it to our spiritual lives, well it doesnt make a lot of sense. Usaully if your beginning a life with Christ you meet Christ first and then to kind of bite off of another one of the posters here, you date and then you marry Christ. His mother isnt really involved all that much. Oh sir/ mamn Ihave a question regarding your comment on baptism. According to the Bible, we are not freed of our sins through baptism. It is through Christ we are free. Oh and I’m sorry to bother you even further but would you mind elaborating on what you mean when you say, “her salvation from sin was more perfect.” Thank you for your time. God Bless.

 

[april_hosen]

dcdurel:

Jesus said to listen to His Church and believe the Gospel His Church taught. He did not say to believe a Gospel based on our guesswork of scripture verses. Now the Gospel that the apostles, the leaders of His Church, taught and preached is NOT recorded anywhere is scripture. But, it was handed down to the Church, and to their successors, and it is summarized in the Catechism and this Gospel says we should honor Mary, and pray to her.
Now, that we know the teaching of the Gospel which says we should honor Mary and the saints and pray to them, we can find evidence of it in the bible.
First, lets look up why we should honor those in heaven.
First, the bible says to honor those who serve the Lord.
Notice that to enter heaven, we must honor those who fear the Lord.
------------- Psalms 15:1 ------------- 1. A Psalm of David. O LORD, who shall sojourn in thy tent?Who shall dwell on thy holy hill? . . . 4… but who honors those who fear the LORD;

Further, the bible says over and over, that whatever we do to the least of the members of the Church, we do to Jesus. Remember when Paul was knocked to the ground, and he said who are you? and Jesus said, I am the Lord who you are persecuting. Yet Paul was only persecuting the members of the Church. But the members of the Church are the body of Christ. Thus, whatever we do to the least of these, we do to Jesus. If we persecute a member of the Church, we are persecuting Jesus, If we honor a member of the Church, we are honoring Jesus.
Should we NOT honor the holy members of the Church, thus NOT honor Jesus, or should we honor the holy members of the Church, and thus honor Jesus? If we fail to honor those who fear the Lord, then we are failing to honor Jesus himself.
The word of God also says,
“Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching” 1Ti 5:17
If the elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, then what about the Mother of God who was perfect in her love of God?
If we are supposed to follow God’s example, because everything God does is good, then we could never give enough honor to Mary. Because of all the people in the history of civilization, He chose her to be His mother. What greater honor could God have done for her then to choose her to be His Mother?
Now, if we are to follow God’s example and honor Mary, then how in the world can we even honor her a fraction of how God honored her by choosing her to be His mother? We can’t. It is impossible to honor her more than God has done. Yet, we must follow God’s example and do the best we can. Of course, Satan honors no one who serves the Lord.
What are Protestants taught to do? Follow the example of Satan who refuses to honor those who serve the Lord, or follow God’s example when it comes to honoring Mary.

Correct me if I am mistaken,
But are you regarding the Catechism as the Gospel? “it is summarized in the Catechism and this Gospel” If so, sir you are saddly mistaken. Another thing sir, you comment on Protestants, “What are Protestants taught to do? Follow the example of Satan who refuses to honor those who serve the Lord, or follow God’s example when it comes to honoring Mary.” To answer your question, a majority of Protestants choose to honor thos who serve the Lord. Christian or not we all fall short of the glory. The first commandment is love the Lord thy God. I try to follow that. But like I said before, we all fall short. Thank you for your post and time. God Bless.

 

[MonicaC]

april_hosen:

Hi RyanL.
I am overwhelmingly glad to hear from you! Thank you for taking the time. First off I want to say i love Revelations. Coolest book of the Bible in my opinion. Regarding this passage: What seems clear to me is that the woman is an important part but her offspring is the center of attention. It was her offspring not the woman that angered the dragon. It was the fact that the offspring was so pure. Just my opinion.

Hello April!

I am glad to hear from you? I thought I would throw in my two cents here! Althought I am sure Ryan will do a great job when he answers back. You are right The offspring is the most important person, but you are not realizing that it was the women who angered the dragon most. Why you ask. Well you see off course the offspring would anger the dragon it is God and there is nothing the dragon can do about that, but you see the women obeyed God, as opposed to the first women who disobied God. This goes back to Gen. when God predicted that the women would put emmity (sp) between him and crush his head. This is why the dragon is so angry with her, because she is the one who is spoken of.

Again welcome back, I hope you find all your answers here, the posters here I am sure will love to help you out in anyway.

Monica

 

[MonicaC]

april_hosen:

Correct me if I am mistaken,
But are you regarding the Catechism as the Gospel? “it is summarized in the Catechism and this Gospel” If so, sir you are saddly mistaken. Another thing sir, you comment on Protestants, “What are Protestants taught to do? Follow the example of Satan who refuses to honor those who serve the Lord, or follow God’s example when it comes to honoring Mary.” To answer your question, a majority of Protestants choose to honor thos who serve the Lord. Christian or not we all fall short of the glory. The first commandment is love the Lord thy God. I try to follow that. But like I said before, we all fall short. Thank you for your post and time. God Bless.

No Catholics don’t regard the Catechism as the Gospel, but it is a guide for those of Christains who know that we need help with God’s words. You see April, Catholics are very much intone with the Gospel and the whole bible for that matter. We listin to it every day at mass. But with that being said we also know that we being mere humans need a guide line to help us with it and that is why we have a the catichism. It is very helpful, you should look at it some time.

Monica

 

[MonicaC]

april_hosen:

No Sir/ Mamn,
I do not mean to come off that way. I do indeed know the significance Mary had in Gods plan. As for your anologie, well in applying it to our spiritual lives, well it doesnt make a lot of sense. Usaully if your beginning a life with Christ you meet Christ first and then to kind of bite off of another one of the posters here, you date and then you marry Christ. His mother isnt really involved all that much. Oh sir/ mamn Ihave a question regarding your comment on baptism. According to the Bible, we are not freed of our sins through baptism. It is through Christ we are free. Oh and I’m sorry to bother you even further but would you mind elaborating on what you mean when you say, “her salvation from sin was more perfect.” Thank you for your time. God Bless.

I just wanted to say that I once heard someone say that when you say that Mary is not important than you might as well tell Jesus that his words are not important . For it was Him that gave us Mary. Mary is subjestive she shapes and forms us to be like Jesus.

And lastly I will ask you to read Psalm 45.

Monica

 

[april_hosen]

Mickey:

I understand what you are saying here, but I don’t think that this is the best analogy. We **do **know the woman’s Son. We ask the Blessed Virgin Mary to pray with us and for us–just as we would ask a friend or a relative to pray with us or for us. Our Lady is alive in Christ, and when Jesus was on the cross, He declared her to be the mother of the whole human race–and so we pray with our mother–and we ask our mother to pray for us. This takes nothing away from her Son.

Mickey!
Hi, I didnt see you there. Thank you! I’ve got nothing else but thanks. Thank you for explaining that a little more clearly. Now Vaughn sort of a made a point of this earlier. But why go through Mary so she can ask Jesus for us instead of coming to Jesus? Now my best buddie CheesusPowerKid tried to explain this to me in saying something along the lines of we ask her too, as a having more reinforcements kind of a thing. But why do that if you’ve already asked Jesus? Mathew 6:7&8, " And when you pray do not use vain repetitions as the heathens do. For they they think that they will be heard for their many words. Therefore do not be like them. For your father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him." I think that kind of speaks for itself. But my interpretation, is one prayer’s enough regarding the subject.

 

[april_hosen]

MonicaC:

I just wanted to say that I once heard someone say that when you say that Mary is not important than you might as well tell Jesus that his words are not important . For it was Him that gave us Mary. Mary is subjestive she shapes and forms us to be like Jesus.

And lastly I will ask you to read Psalm 45.

Monica

Did I say Mary wasnt important?

 

[april_hosen]

MonicaC:

No Catholics don’t regard the Catechism as the Gospel, but it is a guide for those of Christains who know that we need help with God’s words. You see April, Catholics are very much intone with the Gospel and the whole bible for that matter. We listin to it every day at mass. But with that being said we also know that we being mere humans need a guide line to help us with it and that is why we have a the catichism. It is very helpful, you should look at it some time.

Monica

I have actually read the Catechism,
Its very long! A little confusing at times too. Its odd that you’d say that Catholics are very intone with the Bible. I dont doubt that. Its just a lot of the ex-Catholics I’ve talked to said that during Mass they hardly ever needed their Bibles. Also about us needing guidlines, I thought that was what the Bible was for. Just some thoughts! Thanks for your time and post! May God Bless you.

 

[MonicaC]

april_hosen:

I have actually read the Catechism,
Its very long! A little confusing at times too. Its odd that you’d say that Catholics are very intone with the Bible. I dont doubt that. Its just a lot of the ex-Catholics I’ve talked to said that during Mass they hardly ever needed their Bibles. Also about us needing guidlines, I thought that was what the Bible was for. Just some thoughts! Thanks for your time and post! May God Bless you.

Well the mass is directly from the bible. There is not one part of the mass that doesn’t come form the bible. The bible can be interpertated into very many meanings as we all know. That is why we have scholars study the bible to help us understand it. I know that I for one am not a theologian and therefor I would need help to interpert the bible, so that I don’t make the common mistake of misinterperting the bible.

 

[MonicaC]

april_hosen:

Did I say Mary wasnt important?

His mother isnt really involved all that much.

I am sorry if I have misunderstood you but that is the way I took it.

 

[april_hosen]

Genesis315:

Nah, they see His role, they just don’t like it either. They don’t like our Mass (where Christ and His ultimate sacrafice become present), our Adoration of Him in the blessed Sacrament, our front and center life size cruficixes, our pictures of His Sacred Heart, etc.

Hi Genesis,
Thank you a ton for posting. When I first read this it had me giggling for quite some time. So thanks for the laugh. I just want to say I personally see all the cruficixes, sacrements, and eucharist, as a furthering of worship. It’s actually one of the many things I admire about the Catholic faith.

 

[april_hosen]

MonicaC:

I am sorry if I have misunderstood you but that is the way I took it.

Oh goodness,
I appologize. Honestly folks, I dont take Mary lightly. If I come off that way at all genuinly I appologize ! Like I have said many times before I recognize Marys magnificent role in Gods plan. It was always sounds better in person. So once again I am so sorry if I offended you.

 

[stillsearching]

I guess not. She went to heaven and that seems pretty far out there.

 

[Ignatius]

april_hosen:

Hello dear Ignatius,
No sir/ mamn I do not have children. But I understand what your getting at. But the thing is she didnt feel near the pain Jesus Christ did. Each one of our faces probably werent running through her mind when her Son when up on the cross. I dont mean to insinuate(sp?) that Catholics dont give God the glory, simply that possibly some Catholics just dont seem to give God all the glory.

Hi Apirl, Thank you for your reply.

We do give God all of the Glory. However, the commandment does tell us honour your father and mother. Jesus, the perfect Son, is not displeased with showing honour to his mother the honour that is due her.

Your brother in Christ.

 

[Donna_P]

kmktexas:

Mary hold the highest place that any man can hold, other than our Lord Jesus Himself. She deserves a postion above all other simply human beings due to the fact that she, by her fiat, brought the incarnate God into the world. She was conceived without sin and her Son, gave her to us. That place is not too high…

Right on!!:clapping:

 

[FuzzyBunny116]

april_hosen:

Mickey!
Hi, I didnt see you there. Thank you! I’ve got nothing else but thanks. Thank you for explaining that a little more clearly. Now Vaughn sort of a made a point of this earlier. But why go through Mary so she can ask Jesus for us instead of coming to Jesus? Now my best buddie CheesusPowerKid tried to explain this to me in saying something along the lines of we ask her too, as a having more reinforcements kind of a thing. But why do that if you’ve already asked Jesus? Mathew 6:7&8, " And when you pray do not use vain repetitions as the heathens do. For they they think that they will be heard for their many words. Therefore do not be like them. For your father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him." I think that kind of speaks for itself. But my interpretation, is one prayer’s enough regarding the subject.

Theres plenty of threads about this. Search around:thumbsup:. The short answer is, Jesus told us to pray for one another, and to ask each other to pray for one another. This is all we’re doing when we ask for the Saints intercession.