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paramedicgirl
Guest
I never noticed the veils before. That IS weird.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
Again, I take your point. We’re suppose to assume the best of folks until we simply cannot anymore. But this conference (Paramedic Girl points to an equally cogent problem, ie, the actual speakers at the workshops, one of which I wouldn’t go near with a ten foot pole) has gone on in this vein for so long over the years that, at some point, I think the faithful can at least ask,“Um, precisely what is going on here?”
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paramedicgirl
Guest
You know, some people may have missed this, because this is a really long thread, but the person who took the video actually came on this thread (post 115) and stated their reasons for filming this Mass. She said the Papal Nuncio to the US has requested that complaints about abuses be put in video form.
I encourage people to go back and read that post if they have overlooked it.
Here is a partial quote from her post:
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Bishopite
Guest
After watching that video it made me think of the signature that one of the CA forum members has which says something to the effect of…There will be plenty time for liturgical dancing in purgatory!
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TNT
Guest
Speak fur yurself!
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Catholic29
Guest
My gosh, I didn’t notice this (you have to look closely). These ARE nuns with veils!
I suppose when the good cardinal came over and asked them for this role, how could these obedient daughters of the Church refuse?
This is getting weirder all the time! Anyone notice anything else out of rubrical norms in the photo?
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Catholic29
Guest
Thank you for exposing this travesty Mrs. Captain Mike! We all NEED to let the Vatican congregations know what priests, bishops and even cardinals are (and have been) getting away with in the United States.
We MUST spread this video to every magisterium faithful internet blog or forum we can find, and email it to every Catholic in good standing you know, clergy or laity. So we can bombard those congregations with this stuff, and with the grace of God someone over there in a position of importance will take notice!
I’m glad I resurrected the quoted post above!
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childofmary1143
Guest
Looking at that photo not only do I see the nuns veil but is that supposed to be a chasuble that they are wearing??My gosh, I didn’t notice this (you have to look closely). These ARE nuns with veils!
I suppose when the good cardinal came over and asked them for this role, how could these obedient daughters of the Church refuse?
This is getting weirder all the time! Anyone notice anything else out of rubrical norms in the photo?
http://bp0.blogger.com/_pMyWJ--g7Oc/RfHxdlX3M-I/AAAAAAAAArI/xT9hF5G3Ddc/s400/OurFather3.jpg
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Rykell
Guest
TNT, No of course I’m not Cd Mahoney, and to suggest that he would frequent an internet forum to defend his actions is absurd. Nor am I unaware of abuses alleged to him. Nor am I defending him. I take the position that a person is innocent until PROVEN guilty, and look for plausible reasons when error is attributed to anyone…
…PARTICULARLY when the information is passed on second-hand. I have to ask myself, was the OP actually there? How did she come by this knowledge and why did she seek it out if she was NOT there. Could it be a rebash of his past performance (based on the slander circulating on the Web) that for all anyone may know has been disciplined? It seems that Captain Mike’s wife definitely anticipated abuse and sat there with adequate film. Yet this is all she found? A few people tastefully exiting a liturgy with a bit of a dance gesture?
Let’s play the Vatican’s devil’s advocate with respect to the hundreds of reports sent using footage from You-Tube. You are reporting what you feel is an abuse. Did you observe it personally so as to know that the video was not *edited? *
Um. No. I saw it on the internet.
You know the circumstances surrounding it from having spoken to those who planned the liturgy?
No. I just know he committed abuses in the past, again from the internet.
You want us to correct him for a recessional that appeared to be dance based on three seconds of this film?
Yes. I don’t know if it was allowed in a recessional or not, but MAYBE they were disobedient.
Etc., etc. etc.
Friends, gossip and isolated second-hand film footage is not going to get you anything but an assumption of a witch-hunt. This would never fly in a court of law. Did anyone watch My Cousin Vinny?
As for the ghosty nuns in a photo, I take exception once more since nobody knows whether it was a liturgy, how old the photo is, and whether or not the actions have ceased. Yet you alarmists continue to circulate these for shock value and have no real basis for a report to the Vatican. It only makes your agenda look foolish, kinda like Chicken Little.
Telling everyone that the speakers at the conference are unorthodox will not prove anything either. The only ones who are able to correct wrongful situations are those who have inside knowledge such as Bear06 was involved in.
…PARTICULARLY when the information is passed on second-hand. I have to ask myself, was the OP actually there? How did she come by this knowledge and why did she seek it out if she was NOT there. Could it be a rebash of his past performance (based on the slander circulating on the Web) that for all anyone may know has been disciplined? It seems that Captain Mike’s wife definitely anticipated abuse and sat there with adequate film. Yet this is all she found? A few people tastefully exiting a liturgy with a bit of a dance gesture?
Let’s play the Vatican’s devil’s advocate with respect to the hundreds of reports sent using footage from You-Tube. You are reporting what you feel is an abuse. Did you observe it personally so as to know that the video was not *edited? *
Um. No. I saw it on the internet.
You know the circumstances surrounding it from having spoken to those who planned the liturgy?
No. I just know he committed abuses in the past, again from the internet.
You want us to correct him for a recessional that appeared to be dance based on three seconds of this film?
Yes. I don’t know if it was allowed in a recessional or not, but MAYBE they were disobedient.
Etc., etc. etc.
Friends, gossip and isolated second-hand film footage is not going to get you anything but an assumption of a witch-hunt. This would never fly in a court of law. Did anyone watch My Cousin Vinny?
As for the ghosty nuns in a photo, I take exception once more since nobody knows whether it was a liturgy, how old the photo is, and whether or not the actions have ceased. Yet you alarmists continue to circulate these for shock value and have no real basis for a report to the Vatican. It only makes your agenda look foolish, kinda like Chicken Little.
Telling everyone that the speakers at the conference are unorthodox will not prove anything either. The only ones who are able to correct wrongful situations are those who have inside knowledge such as Bear06 was involved in.
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Rykell
Guest
JKirk:
I do not know the speakers, nor what they spoke about at this particular conference. Did anyone tape their speeches? That is probably the only evidence that can be used to obtain disciplinary actions.
Do THIS? Do WHAT. What is it they were doing, does anyone know for sure? I didn’t see any feet in the air indicating it was dance. Maybe leading a prayer service? How long ago? Do you see what I’m getting at? No explanation, just an isolated photo that leaves idle minds to envision horrors and becomes material for sinful rash judgment, and if repeated, possible slander — both of which are a more serious evil than what the “nuns” were doing.
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Titus
Guest
There are liturgical dance workshops at the RECongress. At this mass then it should be no surprise to see a bit of twirling. Sad. Rykell called it ‘tasteful’. Is it really? A bit of twirling is rather distasteful to my mind. And it is totally against the laws of the Church. I do recognise that if we had no one from the event we ought to be sceptical. But Mrs Capt. Mike came on and she took the video. Isn’t that enough for you Rykell?
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paramedicgirl
Guest
And here are the addresses to send your complaints to:
Apostolic Nuncio Archbishop Pietro Sambi 3339 Massachusetts Ave., NW, Washington, D.C. 20008.
Send a copy of your correspondence with a cover letter to:
His Eminence Dar’o Cardinal Castrill-n Hoyos, Congregation for the Clergy, Piazza Pio XII, 3 00120, Vatican City State, Europe
Archbishop William Levada, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Piazza Pion XII, 11, 00120, Vatican City State, Europe
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Rykell
Guest
You missed my point, Titus.
These are not proven abuses.
Therefore, unless someone can state emphatically that the Cardinal does not have special permission to consecrate wine in flagons for a large assembly such as this, where gold chalices would be difficult to obtain and place on the altar enmasse, and
Unless someone in authority can state emphatically that a recessional [not the liturgy itself] bars one from doing a mild celebratory dance movement when the congress itself featured this in its workshops, and
Unless one has personal knowledge such as the woman who took the film,
Then anyone submitting a complaint to the Vatican based on second-hand information that has not been researched is going to find egg on their face, no matter how “right” they may feel the ordinary rubrics are. This was a special occasion, and I would not presume to pass judgment without knowing the full latitude permitted and possibly OBTAINED.
The only one who can hope to find some hearing based on a report is the one who was there, taped the speeches, and filmed the entire liturgy,
And even then, they may not be correct based on the possibility that the matter of concern was *permitted *for THAT occasion only.
I may fully agree with the videographer if I knew all the facts … but as yet, we do not have inside information, only hearsay.
These are not proven abuses.
Therefore, unless someone can state emphatically that the Cardinal does not have special permission to consecrate wine in flagons for a large assembly such as this, where gold chalices would be difficult to obtain and place on the altar enmasse, and
Unless someone in authority can state emphatically that a recessional [not the liturgy itself] bars one from doing a mild celebratory dance movement when the congress itself featured this in its workshops, and
Unless one has personal knowledge such as the woman who took the film,
Then anyone submitting a complaint to the Vatican based on second-hand information that has not been researched is going to find egg on their face, no matter how “right” they may feel the ordinary rubrics are. This was a special occasion, and I would not presume to pass judgment without knowing the full latitude permitted and possibly OBTAINED.
The only one who can hope to find some hearing based on a report is the one who was there, taped the speeches, and filmed the entire liturgy,
And even then, they may not be correct based on the possibility that the matter of concern was *permitted *for THAT occasion only.
I may fully agree with the videographer if I knew all the facts … but as yet, we do not have inside information, only hearsay.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
And here are the problematic speakers, courtesy of Catholic Citizend.org for what is routinely billed by faithful Catholics as Cardinal Mahony’s Dissent Fest:
**Fr. Timothy “Brokeback” Radcliffe: **In Cdl. Mahony’s presence, the 2006 keynoter, a former Master General of the Dominicans, urged thousands of listeners to commit mortal sin by seeing " Brokeback Mountain," the filthy “gay” cowboy movie that features scenes of sodomy, marital relations and male and female nudity, and to read “gay” novels. In 2005 he rapped the Vatican’s then-pending document discouraging the admission and ordination of homosexual seminarians.
Gwynne “Father” Guibord: This “partnered” lesbian Episcopal priestess, once an official of the “gay” Metropolitan Community Church, is credited with persuading the National Council of Churches to scrap an endorsement of traditional marriage in 2000. Also, she endorsed the Sex Information and Education Council’s (SIECUS’s) manifesto that calls for “sexual and reproductive rights,” i.e., killing preborn babies. On March 4, 2005, Cdl. Mahony’s newspaper, The Tidings, ran a photo of her wearing a black shirt and Roman collar.
From the article: There are many more problematic speakers, such as Fr. Richard Fragomeni, but I don’t have room to cover them all. Please note that many scheduled presenters aren’t objectionable, and that Cdl. Mahony sometimes does have a few well-known “token” orthodox Catholic speakers. But he rarely invites them back, whereas he books the dissenters time after time–letting them deceive and mislead thousands more teachers, plus countless additional boys and girls to whom the teachers spread the errors.
Salve Regina
Find out how much God has given you and from it take what you need; the remainder is needed by others.
Saint Augustine
[Edited for length by moderator]
**Fr. Timothy “Brokeback” Radcliffe: **In Cdl. Mahony’s presence, the 2006 keynoter, a former Master General of the Dominicans, urged thousands of listeners to commit mortal sin by seeing " Brokeback Mountain," the filthy “gay” cowboy movie that features scenes of sodomy, marital relations and male and female nudity, and to read “gay” novels. In 2005 he rapped the Vatican’s then-pending document discouraging the admission and ordination of homosexual seminarians.
Gwynne “Father” Guibord: This “partnered” lesbian Episcopal priestess, once an official of the “gay” Metropolitan Community Church, is credited with persuading the National Council of Churches to scrap an endorsement of traditional marriage in 2000. Also, she endorsed the Sex Information and Education Council’s (SIECUS’s) manifesto that calls for “sexual and reproductive rights,” i.e., killing preborn babies. On March 4, 2005, Cdl. Mahony’s newspaper, The Tidings, ran a photo of her wearing a black shirt and Roman collar.
From the article: There are many more problematic speakers, such as Fr. Richard Fragomeni, but I don’t have room to cover them all. Please note that many scheduled presenters aren’t objectionable, and that Cdl. Mahony sometimes does have a few well-known “token” orthodox Catholic speakers. But he rarely invites them back, whereas he books the dissenters time after time–letting them deceive and mislead thousands more teachers, plus countless additional boys and girls to whom the teachers spread the errors.
Salve Regina
Find out how much God has given you and from it take what you need; the remainder is needed by others.
Saint Augustine
[Edited for length by moderator]
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Problematic speakers, contimued
**Edwina “the Scream-a” Gateley: **At the 1993 conference of Call to Action, at which she often speaks, this radical feminist, New Ager and priestess advocate donned vestments and “celebrated” a " Mass." She gave the keynote talk at Dignity USA’s May, 2002, “gay” Catholic convention. Several bishops have barred her from speaking in their dioceses.
Fr. James “Jimmy the Stick” Martin, SJ: He told the 2005 REC we need “public models” of “healthy gay priests for Catholics to reflect on,” to counter “the stereotype of the gay priest as child abuser.” At the 2006 REC, he mocked and disputed the new Vatican document nixing ordination of homosexuals, saying it implied that they “are not fully human” and that “gay priests are responsible for the sexual abuse crisis.” “[Gay] seminarians and gay priests are the Church’s new lepers,” he whined, casting them as the victims.
**
Fr. Richard “Thong-man” Rohr:** At the March, 1997, pro-“gay” New Ways Ministry Symposium, he described his all-male retreats, in which men remove clothing and touch each other in “wounded areas,” as he calls them. Abp. Michael Sheehan of Santa Fe once reprimanded Fr. Rohr for presiding at a lesbian “wedding.” Also, Fr. Rohr advises Catholics to use the New Age/occult Enneagram.
**
Sr. Fran “the Fertilizer” Ferder:** She rejects the Church’s teaching against non-marital sex as a sign of Vatican fixation at an adolescent psychological level. In the Dec., 1995-Jan., 1996 Call to Action News, she said, “The whole Church must hear what [homosexuals] are really saying, especially those gays and lesbians who do not experience their sexuality as a lifelong commitment to celibacy.”
Fr. Michael “Both-ways” Crosby: At the 2006 REC, this prominent Church-basher rapped “clericalism, sexism [sic] and heterosexism [sic]” and “unequal power…between homosexual and heterosexual people.” At a 1999 CTA conference, he knocked the Vatican for “dictating” to the local bishops.
**
Jim “Pinko” Wallis: Cdl. Mahony’s choice for Sunday keynoter is this non-Catholic, far-left activist, who backed the Communists in Vietnam and founded the Post-American magazine (now Sojourners). In 2006 he advised U.S. senators and representatives on ways to get believers to vote Democrat, even though that party is pro-“gay” and pro-abortion.
**
Thomas “the Blab” Groome: This laicized priest from Boston College wants not only women priests but also women bishops. He mocked Pope John Paul II’s Ad Tuendam Fidem as “a pretentious attempt…to stifle conversation and dialogue” among theologians. CatholicCulture.org says he dissents from “a wide range of Church teachings” and shows “an anti-Roman attitude” and “a deeply embedded skepticism in regard to the doctrinal content of Catholicism.”
**
Dr. Greer “Give-it-to-me” Gordon: **At the 2006 REC, she rapped the Vatican’s “assumption” that we must “curb the sexual urges or desires of our homosexual presbyters,” but not of our heterosexual priests. The new document against “gay” ordinations is good in parts, she said, but could “force us into repressing people about their sexuality.”
From the article: There are many more problematic speakers, such as Fr. Richard Fragomeni, but I don’t have room to cover them all. Please note that many scheduled presenters aren’t objectionable, and that Cdl. Mahony sometimes does have a few well-known “token” orthodox Catholic speakers. But he rarely invites them back, whereas he books the dissenters time after time–letting them deceive and mislead thousands more teachers, plus countless additional boys and girls to whom the teachers spread the errors.
**Edwina “the Scream-a” Gateley: **At the 1993 conference of Call to Action, at which she often speaks, this radical feminist, New Ager and priestess advocate donned vestments and “celebrated” a " Mass." She gave the keynote talk at Dignity USA’s May, 2002, “gay” Catholic convention. Several bishops have barred her from speaking in their dioceses.
Fr. James “Jimmy the Stick” Martin, SJ: He told the 2005 REC we need “public models” of “healthy gay priests for Catholics to reflect on,” to counter “the stereotype of the gay priest as child abuser.” At the 2006 REC, he mocked and disputed the new Vatican document nixing ordination of homosexuals, saying it implied that they “are not fully human” and that “gay priests are responsible for the sexual abuse crisis.” “[Gay] seminarians and gay priests are the Church’s new lepers,” he whined, casting them as the victims.
**
Fr. Richard “Thong-man” Rohr:** At the March, 1997, pro-“gay” New Ways Ministry Symposium, he described his all-male retreats, in which men remove clothing and touch each other in “wounded areas,” as he calls them. Abp. Michael Sheehan of Santa Fe once reprimanded Fr. Rohr for presiding at a lesbian “wedding.” Also, Fr. Rohr advises Catholics to use the New Age/occult Enneagram.
**
Sr. Fran “the Fertilizer” Ferder:** She rejects the Church’s teaching against non-marital sex as a sign of Vatican fixation at an adolescent psychological level. In the Dec., 1995-Jan., 1996 Call to Action News, she said, “The whole Church must hear what [homosexuals] are really saying, especially those gays and lesbians who do not experience their sexuality as a lifelong commitment to celibacy.”
Fr. Michael “Both-ways” Crosby: At the 2006 REC, this prominent Church-basher rapped “clericalism, sexism [sic] and heterosexism [sic]” and “unequal power…between homosexual and heterosexual people.” At a 1999 CTA conference, he knocked the Vatican for “dictating” to the local bishops.
**
Jim “Pinko” Wallis: Cdl. Mahony’s choice for Sunday keynoter is this non-Catholic, far-left activist, who backed the Communists in Vietnam and founded the Post-American magazine (now Sojourners). In 2006 he advised U.S. senators and representatives on ways to get believers to vote Democrat, even though that party is pro-“gay” and pro-abortion.
**
Thomas “the Blab” Groome: This laicized priest from Boston College wants not only women priests but also women bishops. He mocked Pope John Paul II’s Ad Tuendam Fidem as “a pretentious attempt…to stifle conversation and dialogue” among theologians. CatholicCulture.org says he dissents from “a wide range of Church teachings” and shows “an anti-Roman attitude” and “a deeply embedded skepticism in regard to the doctrinal content of Catholicism.”
**
Dr. Greer “Give-it-to-me” Gordon: **At the 2006 REC, she rapped the Vatican’s “assumption” that we must “curb the sexual urges or desires of our homosexual presbyters,” but not of our heterosexual priests. The new document against “gay” ordinations is good in parts, she said, but could “force us into repressing people about their sexuality.”
From the article: There are many more problematic speakers, such as Fr. Richard Fragomeni, but I don’t have room to cover them all. Please note that many scheduled presenters aren’t objectionable, and that Cdl. Mahony sometimes does have a few well-known “token” orthodox Catholic speakers. But he rarely invites them back, whereas he books the dissenters time after time–letting them deceive and mislead thousands more teachers, plus countless additional boys and girls to whom the teachers spread the errors.
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Rykell
Guest
This would have more credibility, Paramedicgirl, and I would support sending in tapes of their speeches together with this background. It seems to me that this is far more serious than what we have been discussing so far.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
The sad part is that this was a huge conference, attended by many catechism teachers, liturgists and DRE . Now they are going to distribute their newfound “knowledge” to unsuspecting Catholics everywhere. God help us!
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paramedicgirl
Guest
I wasn’t aware of the actual rules about posting links and lengths of those posts, so please, everyone go to this article by Catholic Citizens.org and read for yourself the list of speakers and why they are problematic to the faith.
Then decide for yourself if you approve of these speakers teaching the Catholic faithful their views.
Then decide for yourself if you approve of these speakers teaching the Catholic faithful their views.
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Rykell
Guest
God help us? … Indeed He will, for one thing these unsuspecting Catholics have in their favor is the inner witness of Truth by the Holy Spirit, who places a check in one’s heart that something doesn’t quite ring true. I believe they will seek other opinions if this material creates any doubts, and with prayer and trust in God who always watches over and delivers His OWN, I think only those who are proud and clinging to their errors will be affected.
Isn’t it true that in spite of propaganda, many do not succomb to it? How so? God’s omnipotent, ever-present grace. AMEN!
It’s too bad someone did not have the foresight to tape the speeches. There’s an outside chance that nothing was amiss in them, and I kinda think anyone who knew of these speakers, like JKirk, wouldn’t attend that session anyway.
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