Mass, Mahony Style

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I hope and pray for the better especially since I actually live in his archdiocese, though contrary to what seems like popular belief, liturgical dancing is NOT the norm around here and yes at the very least he has allowed some indult TLMs…I attend one of them though I hope and pray we can have a TLM parish at some point and not just a once to twice monthly Tridentine Mass. And strange he still uses the glass cups for that Mass being offered in the video since at his cathedral they stopped using glass chalices and changed them all to silver ones (some with gold on top)…which is at least a small step in the right direction though of course there is a lot left to go.

p.s. By the way, as far as I’m aware, the religious education conference is held in Anaheim, which is in Orange County and would be under Bishop Todd Brown.
 
paramedicgirl said:
In the Spirit of The Liturgy on page 198, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger says this:

Dancing is not a form of expression for the Christian liturgy. In about the third century, there was an attempt in certain Gnostic-Docetic circles to introduce it into the liturgy. For these people, the Crucifixion was only an appearance. . . . Dancing could take the place of the liturgy of the Cross, because, after all, the Cross was only an appearance. The cultic dances of the different religions have different purposes - incantation, imitative magic, mystical ecstasy - none of which is compatible with the essential purpose of the liturgy as the “reasonable sacrifice”. It is totally absurd to try to make the liturgy “attractive” by introducing dancing pantomimes (wherever possible performed by professional dance troupes), which frequently (and rightly, from the professionals’ point of view) end with applause. Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.
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There is that 3rd Century again. I’ve read that concerning mystical ecstasy when dancing. The last Church I attended they applauded the musicians. I yelled out one time, this is not a concert!
 
Uxor said:
There is that 3rd Century again. I’ve read that concerning mystical ecstasy when dancing. The last Church I attended they applauded the musicians. I yelled out one time, this is not a concert!
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Here’s more from Spirit of the Liturgy, page 199
None of the Christian rites include dancing. What people call dancing in the Ethiopian rite or the Zairean [Congolese] form of the Roman liturgy is in fact a rhythmically ordered procession, very much in keeping with the dignity of the occasion. It provides an inner discipline and order for the various stages of the liturgy, bestowing on them beauty and, above all, making them worthy of God.
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Now I remember what, I often use as argument. It’s because this attracts attention to the people, thus the focus of the mass not only to God anymore.

Actually, I never see such thing in Singapore, but it’s done by the Indonesian community for the Indonesian mass, in Singapore and in Indonesia. when it happened, people turned their heads to see the dancers. bleah~
Uxor said:
Do we really need one? What next, people ride in on horses or motorcycles, hold a circus.

People are forgetting where they are at. Instead of worshiping and pleasing God they are pleasing themselves. Let the Show Begin. This is no different than in the old Testament, they defiled the Temple too. Samething then is going on now.
This reminds me too of the old films, like “King of Kings” and “Moses”. Dancing was conducted around the Paraohs and the Golden Calf.
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John_Higgins said:
As far as the liturgical dancers, the Mass was over.
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Ace86 said:
Then why call them *liturgical *dancers? They’re dancing during the “Recessional” or whatever you want to call that.
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I do not like the dancing but John is right. The “Recessional” is not part of the Mass. The Mass ends with “The Mass is over”. The procession out after the Mass is not technically part of the Mass.
 
blessedtoo said:
It is forbidden in the United States. I see you live in Singapore. Does anyone know if this rule applies there? Isn’t some forms of liturgical dance allowed in African countries?
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In the liturgy of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church there is some kind of dancing that is sometimes used in processions, but nothing like this and certainly not in the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church.
 
Caesar said:
In the liturgy of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church there is some kind of dancing that is sometimes used in processions, but nothing like this and certainly not in the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church.
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From Spirit of the Liturgy, here is what Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger says about the Ethiopian rite:

None of the Christian rites include dancing. What people call dancing in the Ethiopian rite or the Zairean [Congolese] form of the Roman liturgy is in fact a rhythmically ordered procession, very much in keeping with the dignity of the occasion. It provides an inner discipline and order for the various stages of the liturgy, bestowing on them beauty and, above all, making them worthy of God.
 
vince2paul said:
Thanks.
I agree with your point abt LD. But how if the dancers are kids. Is it still not appropriate? (Of course, I’m assuming that no pedophile is present) 😉
Is there an official document about it?
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You have a very good point.
For sure there is no law against girls on trapezes, push-ups, bar-bell lifting, hi-wire walking, Tarzan vining, Country Swing, West Coast Swing, Ft Worth Shuffle, square Dancing, Mex Hat Dancing or bowling 10-pins.
Do not publish this post on Diocesan sites. They have no imagination, and they’re always stealin my ideas.
 
paramedicgirl said:
From Spirit of the Liturgy, here is what Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger says about the Ethiopian rite:

None of the Christian rites include dancing. What people call dancing in the Ethiopian rite or the Zairean [Congolese] form of the Roman liturgy is in fact a rhythmically ordered procession, very much in keeping with the dignity of the occasion. It provides an inner discipline and order for the various stages of the liturgy, bestowing on them beauty and, above all, making them worthy of God.
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Ah yes, thank you for that clarification.
 
paramedicgirl said:
From Spirit of the Liturgy, here is what Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger says about the Ethiopian rite:

…It provides an inner discipline and order for the various stages of the liturgy, bestowing on them beauty and, above all,** making them worthy of God**.
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See, how igornant I am! I thought that was what a good Confession did.
He probably meant EXTRA POINTS worthy…春日野结衣免费观看,卡一卡二卡三免费网站,日本欧美成人高清电影,亚洲国产在线2020最新
 
Sobieski said:
Let us pray for Cardinal Mahony’s conversion.
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I think that is why Mother Angelica is suffering for his soul. It will be funny when he meets her in Heaven and she lives in Mansion and he gets a hut. Maybe she will be able to make daily trips to visit him in purgatory and tell him, I told you so…😛
 
paramedicgirl said:
From Spirit of the Liturgy, here is what Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger says about the Ethiopian rite:

None of the Christian rites include dancing. What people call dancing in the Ethiopian rite or the Zairean [Congolese] form of the Roman liturgy is in fact a rhythmically ordered procession, very much in keeping with the dignity of the occasion. It provides an inner discipline and order for the various stages of the liturgy, bestowing on them beauty and, above all, making them worthy of God.
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I don’t understand…:confused:
 
Uxor said:
I think that is why Mother Angelica is suffering for his soul. It will be funny when he meets her in Heaven and she lives in Mansion and he gets a hut. Maybe she will be able to make daily trips to visit him in purgatory and tell him, I told you so…😛
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That alone WOULD be Purgatory enough to cleanse a thousand sins.

I’ve been to a Mahony-celebrated Mass, and they have dancers in the procession as well as the recessional. Also, at the preparation of the gifts.

It’s a conservative cliche, but Mahony is a prime example of the “new clericalism” - where each bishop thinks himself a Pope, and each priest thinks himself a bishop.
 
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