Masturbation, is it good for you?

[Transformer]

but i have to comment on this little ditty of conjecture i’m quoting… this type of argument really makes me just want to hang my head and weep. to go from oxytocin and leap to destroying a mans ability to bond just speaks volumes as to Jason’s young age and inexperience.

under the same argument, keeping in mind that regular alcohol consumption lowers blood oxytocin levels AND boosts receptivity to it at the same time.
he should also argue that if you are a heavy drinker, in theory, the oxytocin you produce during lovemaking, after 20 years of marriage and many shots and brews…should lead to stronger bonding and happier marriage…

Oxytocin is released in large amounts in breastfeeding women … if a woman breastfeeds multiple kids over many years… is she, too, ruined for future bonding with her mate??

bad logic that man is spouting.

I’m afraid I lack access to If You Really Loved Me at the moment, and a number of questions, including the one that includes this argument, are MIA on Evert’s website; so I cannot check his exact wording. As I understand it, the temporary reduction on oxytocin production from alcohol, and the accompanying increased receptivity to oxytocin, would have no effect on your oxytocin level or receptivity during sex unless you were under the influence at the time, and even then, it would have no permanant effect on production during sex. Frequent ejaculation, however, does have a permanant effect. Could you, perhaps, give me your own endocrinology cridentials, and cite whatever source from which you got your information about alcohol?

God bless.

 

[thechrismyster]

I’m afraid I lack access to If You Really Loved Me at the moment, and a number of questions, including the one that includes this argument, are MIA on Evert’s website; so I cannot check his exact wording. As I understand it, the temporary reduction on oxytocin production from alcohol, and the accompanying increased receptivity to oxytocin, would have no effect on your oxytocin level or receptivity during sex unless you were under the influence at the time, and even then, it would have no permanant effect on production during sex. Frequent ejaculation, however, does have a permanant effect. Could you, perhaps, give me your own endocrinology cridentials, and cite whatever source from which you got your information about alcohol?

God bless.

mammary.nih.gov/reviews/lactation/Neville002/index.html#synthesis

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9924739&dopt=Abstract

but actually, the apologist was right, i was mistaken. perhaps i had a bit too much alcohol in me while i was posting that post…

hic

don’t drink and post. it’s BAD news!

 

[PauloFreire2]

“Death is the biological norm too; that doesn’t give us the right to murder”

There’s a difference between dying and killing.

 

[PauloFreire2]

“…even I who only have an occasional fall am getting very tired of your not so illustrious comments.”

I’m sorry you feel that way. I’ll try harder to agree with you.

 

[PauloFreire2]

“Thats different then a forced ejaculation while you think of women objectively.”

More unsound reasoning (I’m sorry to disagree with you, and I do so now most charitably). What if the masturbator is a gay male? The point is we’re ‘wired’ to want sex and we can engage in it, under certain circumstances, unconsciously, as in the case of wet-dreams.

“If Jesus said even thinking of a girl lustfully is adultery, I can only imagine what He would say about masturbation.”

Again…what if the masturbator is gay? Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. Paul, yes, but not Jesus.

 

[mercygate]

The only scriptural condemnation of masturbation I find is in the OT. I do not recall St. Paul including it in his list of things which exclude one from the kingdom.

In the first chapter of the epistle to the Romans, he has a blanket category: unnatural sexual acts. And before you tell me that this is a natural act, you’d better show me how that fits into the greater natural law. It doesn’t.

 

[Transformer]

There’s a difference between dying and killing.

Exactly. The former simply happens within God’s creation and is outside of our control. The latter is caused by us, and is immoral. The case is surprising similar to the relationshop between wet dreams and masturbation. Nocturnal emissions are not under our control and they seem to have psychological and physical effects different from those of masturbation, and so they are not sinful. Masturbation, by contrast, is an abuse of sexuality and is clearly a choice.

 

[LittleDeb]

Again…what if the masturbator is gay? Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. Paul, yes, but not Jesus.

Jesus had a whole lot to say about homosexual activity, masturbation, and all forms of sexual dysfunction. He used the words, “in the beginning.” Those words are very specific. They reference Genesis. “Two become one” is impossible in both homosexual activity and masturbation, (not to mention every other sexual sin.)

Nocturnal emission has much more in common with bed-wetting or bladder incontinence than it does with masturbation. Since they are most common in adolescents it would stand to reason that it is related to the physical and emotional changes happening in young men.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Jesus had a whole lot to say about homosexual activity, masturbation, and all forms of sexual dysfunction. He used the words, “in the beginning.” Those words are very specific. They reference Genesis. “Two become one” is impossible in both homosexual activity and masturbation, (not to mention every other sexual sin.)

Agreed! I once heard it explained this way:

Q: Why can’t two homosexual men/women have sex?
A: Because no life can come out of it.

Q: Why can’t two hetrosexuals have oral sex?
A: Because no life can come out of it.

Q: Why can’t you use contraception?
A: Because no life can come out of it.

Q: Why can’t you masturbate?
A: Because no life can come out of it.

Again, there are more reasons than this, but when I heard this from a priest, I thought that it drove home the point.

Nocturnal emission has much more in common with bed-wetting or bladder incontinence than it does with masturbation. Since they are most common in adolescents it would stand to reason that it is related to the physical and emotional changes happening in young men.

If I am not mistaken it can take place with adults as well. Defining when it is more “common” would be difficult.

 

[DaMaDo]

I don’t see anything in scripture that specifically condemns masturbation. People usually refer to the Onan passage in the OT when he let his seed fall on the ground as being grounds that masturbation is wrong, but his action was wrong for a completely different reason (which is actually obvious so I don’t know where this onanism came from).

I confess I do masturbate and if I don’t, my desires get out of control and I start getting really sexually corrupt. Masturbation now and then gets rid of that and keeps me desiring a wife and kids etc. We’re all different, but that’s my experience.

And to address a former poster, I heard catholic teaching that oral sex is ok between a husband and wife as long as it’s purpose is to lead to procreation. Some men don’t have the luxury of being able to instantly be ready for coitus without any stimulation.

 

[LittleDeb]

And to address a former poster, I heard catholic teaching that oral sex is ok between a husband and wife as long as it’s purpose is to lead to procreation. Some men don’t have the luxury of being able to instantly be ready for coitus without any stimulation.

Oral stimulation is fine. That is what is part of foreplay. Some women don’t have the “luxury” of being instantly ready either. So called “oral sex” is something different and is a violation of the marriage act. The Church supports foreplay between spouses, but as you said it must be in the context of a procreative act. Purposeful ejaculation outside the vagina is either a masturbatory act or one of so-called “oral sex.” Both are an affront to marriage and the marriage act.

Masturbation is not a good thing. It is a disordered desire. It won’t lead to wanting a wife and children. It leads away from those very people.

 

[LittleDeb]

If I am not mistaken it can take place with adults as well. Defining when it is more “common” would be difficult.

I totally agree with you. From what I’ve understood (woman speaking here) is that nocturnal emission can take place with or without an accompanying dream. That was my motivation for saying it is both a physical manifestation and a hormonal one. Elderly men with dementia seem to have them as a result of prostate problems not adolescent dreams. I could very easily be mistaken as I cannot read their dreams.

From what I can glean from all of you Catholic men here is that either way, the “cleaning the pipes” nonsense does get shot down by all our theories on emissions. It is neither necessary and is in fact, unhealthy, from an emotional point of view. And further, if someday science is able to show that dreamless emissions are common in the developing prostate and the deteriorating one, it further shoots down the, “well nocturnal emission is normal, therefore masturbation is normal” mantra that gets spread in secular society. Am I off-base with my theories here? I am a woman. I admit, I’ve never had an emission, nocturnal or otherwise.

And to further that line of thought, women who masturbate are doing what? Women have no ejaculation. Orgasm releases oxytocin. Oxytocin is a bonding hormone. A solitary act that releases a bonding hormone bonds one with whom?

 

[tvdxer]

Let’s just put it this way: masturbation is grave matter, a mortal sin if engaged in with 1) full consent, 2) sufficient reflection, and 3) full knowledge (and likely at least the 3rd is lacking for many or perhaps most men and women who masturbate today and have a difficult time seeing anything wrong with it). This is found in the CCC and is a teaching of the church that requires assent from Catholics. So whether or not it is physically healthy is irrelevant. One could make the same claim for fornication.

The best thing for those who have this addiction to do is to pray for strength and try to channel their energies otherwise spent in masturbation into some other activity, such as a hobby or exercise.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Masturbation is not a good thing. It is a disordered desire. It won’t lead to wanting a wife and children. It leads away from those very people.

Just to add to what you have said, masturbation is “self-love” which turns one to oneself. It is not in anyway about giving. Trust me when I tell you, if you do not masturbate, you will survive, it is possible. Masturbating is all about you and your desire to make yourself sexually satisfied. It is sex. Sex with yourself. It is sinful and it is the teaching of the Catholic Church that this is a mortal sin:

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

I totally agree with you. From what I’ve understood (woman speaking here) is that nocturnal emission can take place with or without an accompanying dream. That was my motivation for saying it is both a physical manifestation and a hormonal one. Elderly men with dementia seem to have them as a result of prostate problems not adolescent dreams. I could very easily be mistaken as I cannot read their dreams.

This is new to me, I have not heard that it can take place without an accompanying dream. I do not want to get into details, specific ones that is, but from everything that I have ever learned/experienced/read/heard was that there was some sort of sexual dream that happens before the actual emission. Now some would say that it may be mind over matter and that there are those who do not have sex, do not masturbate and do not have “wet dreams.” I have not heard of this situation, but maybe it does exist. From what I know, once there is a “build up” or excess semen then your body triggers the dream that triggers the emission.

Again, I am going to have to take a backseat on the prostate issue here. I have not heard anything about that, as a matter of fact this is the first time that I have heard that. Not to say that it is not true, but I just am in the dark on that.

From what I can glean from all of you Catholic men here is that either way, the “cleaning the pipes” nonsense does get shot down by all our theories on emissions. It is neither necessary and is in fact, unhealthy, from an emotional point of view. And further, if someday science is able to show that dreamless emissions are common in the developing prostate and the deteriorating one, it further shoots down the, “well nocturnal emission is normal, therefore masturbation is normal” mantra that gets spread in secular society. Am I off-base with my theories here? I am a woman. I admit, I’ve never had an emission, nocturnal or otherwise.

It is late and I have a very early flight, so I am not going to attempt to decode all of that. Can you summarize in simplier terms for a non intellect such as myself. I will say this though, even if “science” comes out with something like that, I fail to see how that would change the opinion of the Catholic Church. I mean “society” already teaches that masturbation is a good thing, right? It releases stress, it relieves your sexual tension, it keeps you from getting your girlfriend pregnant (if she performs the act) it is normal, everyone does it. :tsktsk:

Ind to further that line of thought, women who masturbate are doing what? Women have no ejaculation. Orgasm releases oxytocin. Oxytocin is a bonding hormone. A solitary act that releases a bonding hormone bonds one with whom?

Not sure.

 

[LittleDeb]

It is late and I have a very early flight, so I am not going to attempt to decode all of that. Can you summarize in simplier terms for a non intellect such as myself. I will say this though, even if “science” comes out with something like that, I fail to see how that would change the opinion of the Catholic Church. I mean “society” already teaches that masturbation is a good thing, right? It releases stress, it relieves your sexual tension, it keeps you from getting your girlfriend pregnant (if she performs the act) it is normal, everyone does it. :tsktsk:

Sorry, I’m not an academic either, but when I think out loud I get a little loopy.

I am saying it won’t change the Church’s opinion. It would further cement it as correct. Since science just seems to have opinions on the causes of emissions, they cannot even really say if emissions are “normal” or they are attached to some type of prostate issue.

I think why I am going in this thought direction is that many people try to say the “rules” of the Church are arbitrary. Hence the reason for this thread in the first place. It just seems that science keeps proving the Church correct in Her teachings. I seem to have a lot of success helping young people better understand Church teaching if I can approach it from reason first rather than faith first. Young people usually reject, “because I said so” right away. I am trying to show that even from a secular standpoint masturbation is unnecessary.

Have a good flight! Don’t worry too much about my ramblings. I’ll figure this out somehow.

 

[Keikiolu]

Hello all. After studying the CC and its teachings on sexuality for quite some time, I wonder how masturbation fits into natural law.

If it is beneficial to masturbate, why is it immoral? Why would God stipulate that it is a mortal sin when it is good for the body?

Come on…!

How can a sin, a mortal sin, be “good for you”…!?

How is it good for the body?

It may well be good to “ejaculate”, but that is to be done only within the confines of chastity.

So,… what the heck are you really asking?

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[PauloFreire2]

“Jesus had a whole lot to say about homosexual activity, masturbation, and all forms of sexual dysfunction. He used the words, “in the beginning.” Those words are very specific. They reference Genesis. “Two become one” is impossible in both homosexual activity and masturbation, (not to mention every other sexual sin.)”

Please forgive me, but I radically disagree. I think that’s ‘over-reach’, to the extreme. Again, forgive me. I’m working very hard to agree with many of you, but, to be honest, I just cannot. Please don’t get me banned.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Sorry, I’m not an academic either, but when I think out loud I get a little loopy.

I am saying it won’t change the Church’s opinion. It would further cement it as correct. Since science just seems to have opinions on the causes of emissions, they cannot even really say if emissions are “normal” or they are attached to some type of prostate issue.

I think why I am going in this thought direction is that many people try to say the “rules” of the Church are arbitrary. Hence the reason for this thread in the first place. It just seems that science keeps proving the Church correct in Her teachings. I seem to have a lot of success helping young people better understand Church teaching if I can approach it from reason first rather than faith first. Young people usually reject, “because I said so” right away. I am trying to show that even from a secular standpoint masturbation is unnecessary.

Have a good flight! Don’t worry too much about my ramblings. I’ll figure this out somehow.

Deb,

Flight was good, early, but good.

I understand what you are saying. Thanks for posting the clarification.

 

[LittleDeb]

“Jesus had a whole lot to say about homosexual activity, masturbation, and all forms of sexual dysfunction. He used the words, “in the beginning.” Those words are very specific. They reference Genesis. “Two become one” is impossible in both homosexual activity and masturbation, (not to mention every other sexual sin.)”

Please forgive me, but I radically disagree. I think that’s ‘over-reach’, to the extreme. Again, forgive me. I’m working very hard to agree with many of you, but, to be honest, I just cannot. Please don’t get me banned.

As long as you disagree with a gentle heart, there is no harm in disagreeing. Disagreeing won’t get you banned. Only rude and inappropriate behavior will do that. Just pray and be thoughtful before you hit and your experience here at CAF will be wonderful, uplifting, and educational.

Our late Holy Father gave these wonderful talks called “Theology of the Body” from 1979-1984. He went into a very deep theology of Scripture. It was about the Truth written on our very bodies and souls. It is an amazing study. Pope John Paul II was a man who knew Scripture backwards and forward. If you’ve never heard of it or haven’t studied it, it is soooo worth it! He delves into understanding our amazing human dignity.

I cannot tell you how valuable I have found this theology. I discovered a lot of my previous struggles with the Church were rooted in my misunderstanding of basic human dignity and especially our sexuality. I used to believe secular society. Now I believe the Church. I cannot begin to tell you the joy it has brought to my life. Subjects like this one used to baffle me and make me uncomfortable because I had no real answers. A perusal of my posting history will show that is no longer the case.

Welcome! I hope your stay here is wonderful.