Masturbation is not A Sin

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fromckcc said:
The two purposes of sex are for bonding and procreation. The whole concept of natural family planning pertains that when the semen is ejaculated, it does not lead to a pregnancy because there will be no ova in the ovaries. Thus the aspect of procreation cannot be fulfilled. The couple can bond though even if there will be no resulting pregnancy. From this we can arrive at the conclusion that sex can be purely for bonding and not procreation. Why then can masturbation not be viewed an self bonding?
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One should love God and others, but also oneself. To love oneself means **not **to bring about a loss of grace, but rather to increase it.

From Pope Pius XII, Allocution to midwives, October 29, 1951.:

Unfortunately, unceasing waves of hedonism invade the world and threaten to submerge in the swelling tide of thoughts, desires and acts the whole marital life, not without serious dangers and grave prejudice to the primary duty of husband and wife.

This anti-Christian hedonism too often is not ashamed to elevate itself to a doctrine, inculcating the ardent desire to make always more intense the pleasure in the preparation and in the performance of the conjugal union, as if in matrimonial relations the whole moral law were reduced to the normal performance of the act itself, and as if all the rest, in whatever way it is done, were to be justified by the expression of mutual affection, sanctified by the Sacrament of Matrimony, worthy of praise and reward before God and conscience. There is no thought at all of the dignity of man and of the Christian—a dignity—which restrains the excess of sensuality.

No; the gravity and sanctity of the Christian moral law do not admit an unchecked satisfaction of the sexual instinct tending only to pleasure and enjoyment; they do not permit rational man to let himself be mastered to such an extent, neither as regards the substance nor the circumstances of the act.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P511029.HTM
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
You are right I am not fond of the youcat version and I believe it to be at odds with the other versions. I would never teach my kids the youcat version nor would I want it taught to the in religious Ed as it would contradict the message I will give. However I can see that some teens and people in general need to be handleded differently. My problem, and it is actually on topic, is the phrase “does not demonize” masturbation. If it is not demonized then what is it exactly?
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We NEVER recommend the YouCat.
My pastor really dislikes it and so do I.
You don’t need to dumb down things for kids or others who are trying to justify sin.
 
fromckcc said:
…Why then can masturbation not be viewed an self bonding?
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That is one way of saying that the goal of masturbation is entirely self-centered, yes.

Whatever gave you the idea that any of us needs help to become a little more wrapped up in ourselves or that this would be a positive accomplishment of some kind? 🤷
 
fromckcc said:
It was a good reply but if one masturbates while fantasizing having sex with his/her spouse is it adultery?
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Probably not, but then again, you are not in such a situation, and neither am I. At this point I believe one is trying to find a loophole to dismiss what has already been established.

So long as this sin displeases you and you work against it, it’s a matter of merit and not a loss, however, if it doesn’t displease you and you don’t care to work against it, than it is a loss. If you reflect on it, I’m sure you will see that the Church is right in recognizing it as a sin regardless of the language they use.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
EasterJoy said:
That is one way of saying that the goal of masturbation is entirely self-centered, yes.

Whatever gave you the idea that any of us needs help to become a little more wrapped up in ourselves or that this would be a positive accomplishment of some kind? 🤷
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A lot of things we do are self centered. Things like drinking alcohol of juice are not necessary and are focused on the self. Does that make them sinful?
 
fromckcc said:
A lot of things we do are self centered. Things like drinking alcohol of juice are not necessary and are focused on the self. Does that make them sinful?
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You certainly like to get off topic. :rolleyes:

But then, I don’t think you genuinely want any real answers because you have gotten them, but you continue to rephrase the question or play gotcha in order to justify what you want to hear.

And I also think this thread is just entertainment to you.
 
fromckcc said:
A lot of things we do are self centered. Things like drinking alcohol of juice are not necessary and are focused on the self. Does that make them sinful?
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Your sexual faculty is meant for giving yourself to someone else, and not just anyone else. It is meant for mutual self-gift of would-be parents to each other–a gift of self to self in order to to make one life ordered for the sake of others. I do not mean the gift is sex only, but the marriage bond, of which sex is one aspect intended by the Creator. Why are you trying to defend twisting sex into something focused on one self alone, divorced not only from another person but from the whole of marital life? It is not eating or drinking, OK? It is an intrinsically different act!

Divine law is not arbitrary. When the sexual faculty is bent back on self-gratification, it has a negative effect on the capacity for love, not an enhancing effect. The capacity for love is the whole and entire reason for human existence. That is why masturbation is disordered: that is, it turns the person away from the reason for which he or she was created. Eating and drinking alone don’t do that, not unless you are being antisocial or selfish in how you do it.
 
Irishmom2 said:
You certainly like to get off topic. :rolleyes:

But then, I don’t think you genuinely want any real answers because you have gotten them, but you continue to rephrase the question or play gotcha in order to justify what you want to hear.
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The OP is not doing anything we haven’t all done. We need to remind ourselves that we’re calling the OP on this because others have called us on it when our own questioning started drifting in a disingenuous direction. We recognize the song and the chorus because we’ve sung this song ourselves, if only to ourselves.

I do not think the OP is necessarily being willfully obtuse, here. Again: we have all been there. We counsel the doubtful, instruct the ignorant, and admonish the sinner having all needed that mercy ourselves.

We are not trying to dish it out, OP. We are trying to pay it forward! Trust us on that one. :o
 
Trident_H said:
Because it is a very self-absorbed thing to do. I mean we’re supposed to be growing in holiness here on earth. Not just jacking off to our favorite thoughts.

And it gets us in bad habits. I mean what are you thinking about when you’re at it? I’m sure it’s not spiritually pure stuff. You’re making some girl or guy your object. Something they weren’t supposed to be.

Because there’s no love in what you’re doing. There’s only lust fulfillment. I mean it’s like eating just because something tastes good. Without worrying about not having self-control. So you’re taking something that was meant to strengthen love. And using it in a way that will only weaken it. I mean there’s no other way forward than that.

It seems pretty simple right now. But you haven’t started getting fat yet. You haven’t started getting into the habit of eating all the cake in the room.

I talk with guys who are addicted to masturbating. They’re addicted to porn. They’re addicted to impure thoughts. Everything reminds them about alone time. And that craving moves everything else out of the way. All the other things that should be more important sort of fall aside.

Because sex is a kind of drug. Being restricted to only having it with a spouse helps to limit the dose. Helps to keep the supply in check. But masturbation? What puts that upper limit on that for you?

I mean you can go an hour or more at a time already. I don’t know how old you are. But add 10 years and you can be like guys I know who can go 8 times that long. Then you can also sort of also join company with those who can’t have normal relations at all. Because they’ve worn out all the easy ways at getting that high. All that stuff’s now dull and predictable. Because the brain adapts. It craves novelty.

So if you don’t keep sex novel it’ll become mundane. And once it does you’re on a downward spiral. As you push the limits of normal. In all directions.

Peace fromckcc. Thanks for asking. Thanks for not just assuming you were totally right. Thanks for leaving that room for doubt.

-Trident
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THIS.

Sorry OP, but it’s a sin. Period. It’s considered a mortal sin. Just like going to bed pre-marital.

St. Francis of Assisi would roll in the snow to fight off such feelings of human weakness. Likewise, you need to avoid such deceitful thoughts and stop trying to justify self love as not a sin, because it is.
 
1ke said:
I suggest you take your issue with YOUCAT off this thread.
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Because it is pertinent to the subject and the op is a teen. The youcat directly addresses this situation and since it seems to be saying something confusing I think we could discuss it. If a mod wishes to remove it so be it.
I believe there are threads discussing this issue as there are many threads discussing masturbation. Yet here we are… 🤷

As the op is a teen do you find the youcat answer sufficient?
 
1ke said:
Then I encourage you to visit this site:

chastity.com

Jason Evert is also an author with several great books for teens on the topic of sexuality.
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Yes I agree. I also think this thread will end shortly as some of the subject matter has gone beyond what I would like my teen to be exposed to…
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Yes I agree. I also think this thread will end shortly as some of the subject matter has gone beyond what I would like my teen to be exposed to…
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Agreed, I thought the OP was an adult.

As to your question to me, I have no issue with YOUCAT. The Church neither demonizes more trivializes masturbation. I read that to mean the kind of shaming that used to occur, the type that caused people to acquire sexual dysfunction and hang ups-- many children discover their genitals and touch, etc, and a lot of parents freak out and overreact which can be unhealthy for the child. There are good and bad ways for parents to handle this subject with their child. Shaming is not a good way. I think that is what the YOUCAT is driving at.
 
1ke said:
Agreed, I thought the OP was an adult.

As to your question to me, I have no issue with YOUCAT. The Church neither demonizes more trivializes masturbation. I read that to mean the kind of shaming that used to occur, the type that caused people to acquire sexual dysfunction and hang ups-- many children discover their genitals and touch, etc, and a lot of parents freak out and overreact which can be unhealthy for the child. There are good and bad ways for parents to handle this subject with their child. Shaming is not a good way. I think that is what the YOUCAT is driving at.
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Ok. So how do you reconcile these two things. The youth of today reading the youcat no nothing of the shaming you are speaking of. So how can one say that the church does not demonize something that is intrinsically evil? If the aim of youcat is to not be confusing because teens can not understand the real catechism then isn’t that about the most opposite result you get from the language used?
 
1ke said:
Agreed, I thought the OP was an adult.

As to your question to me, I have no issue with YOUCAT. The Church neither demonizes more trivializes masturbation. I read that to mean the kind of shaming that used to occur, the type that caused people to acquire sexual dysfunction and hang ups-- many children discover their genitals and touch, etc, and a lot of parents freak out and overreact which can be unhealthy for the child. There are good and bad ways for parents to handle this subject with their child. Shaming is not a good way. I think that is what the YOUCAT is driving at.
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The OP may be a teen, but after the OP expressed some rather detailed opinions about what constituted “acceptable” porn the conversation naturally confronted the detail in the questions he posed and the examples he gave in defense of his conclusions.

Yes, I would agree that the Church understands the power of sexual temptation and the subtle ways the evil one attacks chastity. The Church admonishes the sinner but with encouragement to repent and amend and with mercy towards those who fall, rather than with shaming or hysteria.
 
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