May Catholics Endorse Universalism?

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Have you never even considered the possibility of universal salvation? What if it is true? Could you accept it if God made it happen? Or would you consign yourself to your own private hell, telling God, “I can’t be in a heaven with all these notorious sinners and unbelievers! I can’t accept that you would bring them to repentance and acceptance of the truth, not when I know how bad they were!” Then perhaps God would have to open your eyes to the reality of love and mercy, as I hope happens for all of us. Or, would you rejoice instead, when you come to see that all of us sheep who were lost were indeed found in the end, and that the Good Shepherd, through a love and mercy more powerful than we can ever know now, and through his undeniable will that none be lost, brought us all home?
 
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Have you never even considered the possibility of universal salvation? What if it is true?
It is NOT true because the Church has condemned it as a heresy and in matters of faith and morals the Church cannot err. If it did it would mean Christ had lied.
Catholics MAY NOT believe in Universalism.
The most we can do is hope and pray that all people might be saved. We may NOT believe they WILL be saved and we may NOT believe the devil and other fallen angels will be saved.
 
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christofirst:
A glimmer of hope! I’ll take that.
But the hope and pray does not apply to Satan and the other fallen angels because we also know that everyone in Hell are there forever.
I refuse to “dare to hope” because I have heeded the warnings about entering the narrow gate and camels passing through the eye of a needle. I am confident that Church teaching, nay, Christ’s own words, indicate that some are damned. Perhaps few are damned, perhaps many. We can’t put a number to it. We don’t really know who will meet us in Heaven. I hope to be splendidly surprised by the population there. But I dare not to hope to see everyone.
 
I refuse to “dare to hope” because I have heeded the warnings about entering the narrow gate and camels passing through the eye of a needle. I am confident that Church teaching, nay, Christ’s own words, indicate that some are damned. Perhaps few are damned, perhaps many. We can’t put a number to it. We don’t really know who will meet us in Heaven. I hope to be splendidly surprised by the population there. But I dare not to hope to see everyone.
Personally I believe there are already many many people in Hell.
 
I would lean that way based on the OT accounts. Balancing with the Gospels, which - most agree - paint a more hopeful picture of salvation, sort of tempers that opinion. Perhaps the scope of salvation is ever-widening, and fewer people are damned as history wears on.
 
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Remember that from the cross Jesus forgave unconditionally. Do you believe that love is unconditional?
support the proposition that God grants forgiveness without our repentance
This doesn’t rise to that level, but here is a more complete explanation:


I guess the best way to understand what I am talking about is to simply forgive people unconditionally, to actually try it as Jesus did from the cross. He understood why the crowd did what they did, He put himself in their shoes, and He forgave. Have you done this, forgiven an unrepentant person?
but it is impossible that God pardon a man for an offense, without his will being changed.
Well, I am sure that Aquinas knows that with God, all things are possible, so I’m not sure how he might restate that, but his statement is accurate in that if a person does not accept the gift, it will not be experienced in a real way. God cannot force a person to accept a gift because we have free will.
It is heresy and a mortal sin to believe that.
I think I asked for your source earlier, but I did not get it. Do you have a source that says it is a mortal sin to believe in Universalism?

Note: you might see that my position on salvation is basically that of Bishop Barron.
If it did it would mean Christ had lied… But the hope and pray does not apply to Satan and the other fallen angels
Not sure where you got these. Could you share your source?
 
This doesn’t rise to that level, but here is a more complete explanation:
Yeah, it doesn’t rise to that level at all. Congratulations, there is one other dude in the world who agrees with you. You get a gold star.

I notice the very first blog commenter corrects Father about that teaching.

The mods are giving weird answers though, about grace without repentance???
 
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This line of reasoning also reminds me of another heresy: the sensus fidei-related error. There are some who claim that a teaching is not settled or infallible until it is “received” by the faithful. If the faithful do not properly “receive” the teaching then they are not bound by it. This is simple antinomianism and clear heresy, or rather it’s the synthesis of all heresies because it enables actual Cafeteria Catholicism. But it’s out there.

As for “a source that says Universalism is a heresy (grave matter)” it is de fide that Hell exists and infallibly taught by the Ordinary Magisterium that it has a non-zero population. So as a negative formulation, to deny those two propositions is obvious heresy.
 
I think I asked for your source earlier, but I did not get it. Do you have a source that says it is a mortal sin to believe in Universalism?
The Church condemned Universalism as a heresy. It is a mortal sin for a Catholic to hold any heretical belief.
 
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Montrose:
If it did it would mean Christ had lied… But the hope and pray does not apply to Satan and the other fallen angels
Not sure where you got these. Could you share your source?
Satan and the other fallen angels are in Hell forever.

CCC 414 Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God.
 
Have you never even considered the possibility of universal salvation? What if it is true? Could you accept it if God made it happen? Or would you consign yourself to your own private hell, telling God, “I can’t be in a heaven with all these notorious sinners and unbelievers! I can’t accept that you would bring them to repentance and acceptance of the truth, not when I know how bad they were!” Then perhaps God would have to open your eyes to the reality of love and mercy, as I hope happens for all of us. Or, would you rejoice instead, when you come to see that all of us sheep who were lost were indeed found in the end, and that the Good Shepherd, through a love and mercy more powerful than we can ever know now, and through his undeniable will that none be lost, brought us all home?
These are all great questions for reflection on the matter. We can begin with knowing that the Father wills all to come to Him and reconcile, that He cares deeply, carving our names into the palm of His hand.

Some of us are graced with a human experience of unconditional love and forgiveness. My own parents forgive this way, and many people I talk to, if not most, also experience forgiveness in this way and forgive others without condition. Indeed, as the A.A. tradition holds “Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die”. When a person practices such forgiveness, the thought of God not doing the same seems bizarre.

As the Linns say, (paraphrased) “If you hear or read something that sounds like God loves you less than the person who loves you most, something is amiss.”

In the mean time, we cannot know that there is universal salvation, so Bishop Barron’s position remains the humble and best approach. Also, AFAIK, there is no “mortal sin” in the optimistic belief that all will be united, that all will be reconciled to God. Indeed, such a position is merciful and is consistent with a choice to love all God creates and seeing it as good (note: such seeing is supported by Sts. Augustine, Thomas, and Ignatius.)
I notice the very first blog commenter corrects Father about that teaching.
It’s obviously a point of controversy for some. Have you ever experienced unconditional forgiveness from someone?
Their choice against God is definitive.
This does not make it a sin to pray that all will be reconciled to His Love.
The Church condemned Universalism as a heresy. It is a mortal sin for a Catholic to hold any heretical belief.
I think Hans van Balthasar and Bishop Barron have good approaches.
 
Would it be heretical for me to say “I hope Christ is a creation of the Father. I hope he is not Divine.”
 
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Montrose:
Their choice against God is definitive.
This does not make it a sin to pray that all will be reconciled to His Love.
The Church condemned Universalism as a heresy. It is a mortal sin for a Catholic to hold any heretical belief.
I think Hans van Balthasar and Bishop Barron have good approaches.
Prayer for anyone in Hell is wasted as those in Hell are there forever but God might find another use for the prayer for those not in Hell.

This I meant to put in an earlier post.

CCC 1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

CCC 1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: “He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."
 
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However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
As you can see, any individual Christian is going to have a slightly different experience and relationship with God in terms of God’s mercy and justice. For example, some people have never experienced unconditional forgiveness from a parent or spouse, and some people have never unconditionally forgiven an unrepentant person, preferring to hold onto grudges.

All of these things add into what the word “entrust” entails. In addition, if a person grows up in a belief system whereby unconditional forgiveness is wrong in some way, this will be problematic in terms of spiritual well-being. Holding grudges is misery.
 
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Montrose:
However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
As you can see, any individual Christian is going to have a slightly different experience and relationship with God in terms of God’s mercy and justice. For example, some people have never experienced unconditional forgiveness from a parent or spouse, and some people have never unconditionally forgiven an unrepentant person, preferring to hold onto grudges.

All of these things add into what the word “entrust” entails. In addition, if a person grows up in a belief system whereby unconditional forgiveness is wrong in some way, this will be problematic in terms of spiritual well-being. Holding grudges is misery.
You asked me for teachings of the Church to support what I said but when I give them to you you simply ignore them.

What do you think " the eternal death of hell , for ever, with no turning back" means??
What do you think " remaining separated from him for ever" means??
 
I think I am going to answer in the general way. God wills that all will be one, all reconciled to Him, for He loves all that He creates, and all He creates is good. There is nothing wrong with praying for this, and believing that all things are possible. This is much different than proclaiming that all people will go to heaven or that fallen angels and so forth will go back to God.

Without exploring these topics on a very introspective way, they remain rather superficial. Again, questions like “What is your experience of unconditional love and forgiveness?” are much more relevant.
 
I think I am going to answer in the general way. God wills that all will be one, all reconciled to Him, for He loves all that He creates, and all He creates is good. There is nothing wrong with praying for this, and believing that all things are possible. This is much different than proclaiming that all people will go to heaven or that fallen angels and so forth will go back to God.

Without exploring these topics on a very introspective way, they remain rather superficial. Again, questions like “What is your experience of unconditional love and forgiveness?” are much more relevant.
You keep digressing.
I previously said that the Church teaches that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell and remains there forever.
I quoted Church teachings on this.

It does not take a rocket scientist to understand they WILL NEVER be released from Hell so there is no Universalism.
 
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