Men please answer honestly

[Monte_RCMS]

Men are interested in two things:

Laughing, particularly when women overanalyze.

Beer.

[Maybe, beer first]

[Please note that when God took on human form, and a human personality, He had the power to do anything He wanted. But He decided to come to Earth as a man. And he enjoyed a drink now and again. And, in my opinion, He came to Earth as a man to lead men to Him.]

[If someone doesn’t like my answer, remember the title of the OP]

 

[CountrySinger]

Men are interested in two things:

Laughing, particularly when women overanalyze.

Beer.

Now this thread is getting fun, even though I am a woman, I like a good beer. And pizza. And men in glasses.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Now this thread is getting fun, even though I am a woman, I like a good beer. And pizza. And men in glasses.

Do you like to laugh?

Did you know that the NRA is having a half-price sale on Life Memberships?

 

[chevalier]

Ok, I have a question that would definitely become heated in a secular environment but I am hoping on a Catholic website men will be more comfortable anwering.

I will, but I can surely give you my name and surname with it.

What do men really think about the way women carry on today?

I’m sad and disappointed by most.

I mean by wearing provocative clothes,

Unacceptable. All excuses are rubbish.

figthing to breast feed in public

Don’t know, there may be valid reasons; a breasteading woman shouldn’t be scandal to any man in his right mind, but it shouldn’t be done for show either.

and getting mad at people who are against it.

Hormones.

Being the ones to initate dates with men,

It can be done in a dignified manner. Suggesting a coffee is not a problem at all. Inviting a man to a dance (or even to dance while already there) can be done in a ladylike manner (it takes effort, but it definitely can be done in style). “Yo, stud,” kind of come-ons are off-putting. Several women hitting on the same man at the same time are a lamentable sight. Women throwing themselves on a man who treats them like shabbily are a lamentable sight. Women using sexually charged innuendo are not attractive, they are the opposite of it and they make me sad and lose my sleep at night if I am interested in them for other reasons. I’ve recently lost lots of sleep and even lost weight while having to work long hours in a responsible job.

using profanity,

Occasionally, it can be humorous. Most of the time, it’s vulgar. In certain cases it fits with the image of a warrior woman who’s seen some life and doesn’t mince words, but in most cases it will sound vulgar and affect the woman’s impression on me.

flirting (not innocently),

I wish she didn’t, even if I am already interested in her. I very much like dignified flirting but I don’t want any sexual innuendo. In some situations, a bit of colour will not be vulgar, but those are rare and special situations.

I’m also saddened when women react positively to men’s lines suggesting 1) sexual acts, 2) nudity. They should turn away and leave (with strangers) or tell the man to shut up please (if they have some reasons not to cut the contact on the spot).

being offended when men open doors and all the other stuff.

Hormones + liberal disease = weird.

But holding the door for a feminist = priceless.

I have often been insituations were woman would do things in front of their husbands that I though was not nice and the man simply ignores it.

I’ve been guilty of the same. In my case because I care (which is what I want to believe) or because I’m soft in the head (which is more likely to be true). Sadly, a man can also be addicted to that woman, including because of sex drive and withdrawal mechanics (either withdrawal of sexual relations, say, in case of husband and wife, or even withdrawal of the innuendo that she otherwise inserts into verbal conversations).

For example, my uncles wife kept talking about her first husband, and then her second husband in front of him (he is her third husband). Personally, I found that was a put down to my uncle to have it in his face that she still though about them (ok, I know my uncle chose to be her third husband but that is beside the point). I think my uncle ignored it because he knew she wouldn’t stop and he had too much pride to admit his hurt.

Unacceptable behaviour. I think you think correctly, as far as your uncle’s feelings go.

Once a man told me when his girlfriend hits him, he laughs because he knows if he hits her back society would be totally against him. Is it possible it is not the physical pain that hurst the man but the emotional put down that would crush him?

Yes, that’s possible. And a man can be manipulated into not leaving a woman who acts like that. Plus, sadly, some people have such issues as a result of traumas and traumas affect people who are good people. Therefore we can have a good woman who will at time succumb to trauma-generated issues and use violence on the man. Or verbal abuse. Or whatever. (Sexual relations are sometimes forced on men in this manner, too.) What more can I say? You know the battered woman. Now say hello to the battered man.

Deep down, regardless of what society says, do men not want wifes, mothers and sisters that are respectable?

I wholeheartedly do.

I want to find a true lady, who will also be a good and kind person and not afraid to act like one, who will act honourably and who will respect herself and others. Furthermore, someone who will not take pride in her past (let alone current) exploits or look back at them fondly, who will not use sex appeal to get ahead in life etc. and who will not push the limits of chastity in our relationship. (And this does not imply lack of sense of humour or lack of interesting personality or lack of ability to have fun.)

 

[chevalier]

Also, please list behaviours that feminist think woman should do but deep down men think are wrong.

• keep a man wanting and hungry for contact by cutting conversations short, using cliff-hangers etc.
• manifest independence by making a point of doing things which make the man feel insecure (this is about the man supposedly being “controlling”)
• not try to be attractive to a man but acting like it’s his duty to be attractive no matter how unattractive the woman chooses to try to be
• seek “affirmation” (of sexual attractiveness) with other men and her man should grin and bear it (may be connected with manifesting independence too)
• otherwise attempt to dominate the relationship (because her position is safe enough or comfortable enough only when she’s in total control or because men are an inferior species and women should be in control or because that’s what other women do)
• copy after men and emulate men instead of embracing their feminity (but without exaggerating it either!)–please note that this point is different from the above ones *

• Without wishing to offend anyone, I don’t think it’s okay if a woman wears a crew-cut and a masculine outfit (except in limited circumstances such as army battledress or roadworks work clothes or whatever). I think it’s unjust to her man, too, because he didn’t marry another man. She shouldn’t blame men for not being attracted. Not any more than a man should blame women for not being attracted to him if he wears pink and puts on make-up and acts like he’s going to faint any minute.

Please note that when I say, “crew-cut and masculine outfit”, I don’t say, “short hair and jeans,” just before I get flamed. Nor do I put aesthetic choices on the same level with being mean to people (unless they are an in-your-face manifestos, in which case it’s being mean to people).

Notwithstanding, since you asked for an honest opinion and you want to know, I will generally find a dress (or an overcoat that looks like one) more appealing than trousers. I will generally find longer hair more appealing than shorter hair too (except those actually feminine short cuts that have a sense of style to them; plus, it gets boring when every woman goes for short and every man goes for long, I’m sure you get my point).

I also like flowers in hair, ribbons and long gloves. Since you asked.

Oh, and before someone says the cost of looking good is too high… walking around in a suit and tie in 90 degrees isn’t exactly fun. Oh, and many people don’t realise this but smarter outfits can often be more comfortable than casual ones or just the same. Just a hint.

However, all this said, please don’t confuse old-fashionedness with charity, kindness or even good style. And please do remember that being Catholic does not require being socially, politically or otherwise conservative.

For reference, let’s look at some of the “sins” of the old school, but please note we’re talking about aberrations of the old school or failures-in-performance rather than actual designs (unlike the hostile kinds of feminism where some such things are indeed designed to be that way):

• pulling cliff-hangers on a man (yup, same stuff as in the feminist variant, just different methods of pulling it off)
• disdaining men (yup, again, as with feminists, it’s just that men are “unworthy” instead of a “lower species”)
• not communicating like adults but employing culturally sanctioned games (which hurts both parties and possibly children too in the long run)
• preventing the woman from giving feedback to the man, letting him know where he stands etc.
• making the woman lose out on a good prospect because never will she make the first step
• sanctioning emotional cruelty by women or men and promoting the stupid ethos of rejecting the man 20 times before “giving in”–this is the same stupid rape game primitive societies play, only put in more “civilised” garments
• approval or tolerance for male violence or infidelity (while labelling all men as being bound to act that way, which is hurtful because we’re not)

Please note that whether we’re talking about devastation wrought by the wrong kind of feminism or the aberrations of the old school, playing emotional games leads to relationships based on addiction, sadomasochistic bonds and other such pathological dependencies. By contrast, we’re called to live in peace and we should be in healthy relationships.

 

[CountrySinger]

Do you like to laugh?

Did you know that the NRA is having a half-price sale on Life Memberships?

I love to laugh a lot. Mostly at myself.

 

[puzzleannie]

What do men really think about the way women carry on today? I mean by wearing provocative clothes, figthing to breast feed in public and getting mad at people who are against it. Being the ones to initate dates with men, using profanity, flirting (not innocently), being offended when men open doors and all the other stuff.

is there some reason breastfeeding in public is linked with all these other things? what precisely is your agenda, fella, and yes you will find this discussion getting quite heated if you think a woman feeding her baby is a sex object.

 

[Nec5]

is there some reason breastfeeding in public is linked with all these other things? what precisely is your agenda, fella, and yes you will find this discussion getting quite heated if you think a woman feeding her baby is a sex object.

A word of caution on this note. I can see plenty of equal protection cases coming our way if public breastfeeding is given free reign. I know it’s a ludicrous comparison, but some women will begin arguing that they suffer pain or discomfort from wearing a covering and then it’s slippery slope land. Then some men will argue that…well I won’t go there.

I know it’s insane, but considering the way the courts and the culture are today, it’s not unrealistic.

 

[Zatzat]

is there some reason breastfeeding in public is linked with all these other things? what precisely is your agenda, fella, and yes you will find this discussion getting quite heated if you think a woman feeding her baby is a sex object.

Well said…well said…

 

[chevalier]

What’s wrong with asking for breast-feeding to be discreet? I don’t have a problem with seeing a breast-feeding woman, but what’s so wrong with asking for it to be discreet, e.g. by turning one’s back on the men or finding a room or limiting the skin exposure? Generally, any ostentatious attitude tends to be a sign of poor self-esteem and not very high respect for others.

Provocative clothing is not indicative of the modern women, but more display of low self confidence and a need to feel sexually attractive. It’s a scream for attention, more than a scream for sex. Unfortunately men will see the latter. But I think a lot of women are beginning to see that you can dress attractive and smart, rather than sexual and slutty.

It’s not only dress. There are women who dress modestly but can verbally spice up a conversation to uncomfortable levels.

As for women initiating dates, intentions of interest, etc. It’s about bloody time! I can’t tell you how horrible it is to walk up to a group of nice looking sheilas with the intention of only talking to one, and then being rejected by ALL! Anyway, us blokes are hopeless at reading signals, so if you can make our job easier, by all means do so.

We aren’t actually any more hopeless than women are. Women too complain about us being hard to read. There’s also a problem with people giving mixed signals. This is pretty common these days. Mixed signals are one of my personal pet peeves.

In past threads, some women on this forum have complained that men on this forum are viewing women as a “puzzle” or “code” to be cracked, and that men mistakenly think that behaving in a certain way will draw the interest of any woman. These men are cautioned that all women are different, and that they must consider the personality of the individual woman before acting.

That’s just Old Chev getting fried for being INTJ!

I realize that Americans are grossed out by bodily functions, but in many foreign countries, such as Germany, people still know that feeding babies is what breasts are for, and they wouldn’t bat an eyelash if a woman breastfed her baby, even outside in broad daylight.

I respectfully disagree, at least if you compare Americans to Europeans. Maybe there’s less breast-feeding over there than here, but here there’s much less discussion of bodily functions. In my European impression, Americans talk way more freely about such things.

There are also cultural differences going on. I was raised to believe that a woman breastfeeding her child is one of the most beautiful things in the world. I certainly don’t think it’s fair to lump women who do into the same category with women who are vulgar and immodest.

Yes, I agree, and I don’t like the puritanical outlash (especially when actual transgressions against modesty are being tolerated). I just don’t think there’s any need to turn public breast-feeding into a statement and make a point of it. It then loses any beauty it might have and it starts being as annoying as any other in-your-face display.

To be frank, that’s your problem, not theirs.

No. We live in a society and the proverbial stick has two ends.

People do tend to get radically passionate about sustaining the life of a child with the best source of nutrition…breast milk.

From breast milk milk being the best source of nutrition it does not follow that discretion can’t be observed.

(Lame example, but washing oneself is good and we still use isolated rooms or cabins for that. Eating is good, but we wait the one final minute before work or class ends. Night’s sleep is good but we sleep in our houses, not in public parks. And so on. Basically, just because something is good of itself doesn’t mean that every time and place is good for it.)

 

[ack]

is there some reason breastfeeding in public is linked with all these other things? what precisely is your agenda, fella, and yes you will find this discussion getting quite heated if you think a woman feeding her baby is a sex object.

And since when is it appropriate to address a woman as a “fella”?

This must be one of those generational differences in etiquette that I kept hearing about on another thread…

 

[sanctareparata]

(Lame example, but washing oneself is good and we still use isolated rooms or cabins for that. Eating is good, but we wait the one final minute before work or class ends. Night’s sleep is good but we sleep in our houses, not in public parks. And so on. Basically, just because something is good of itself doesn’t mean that every time and place is good for it.)

The beginning of your post was right-on in that a woman should observe some sort of discretion when breastfeeding by not just “whipping it all out” for all to see. However, this last part is way off.

The “we” you are talking about above is an adult with the ability and rationale to deprive himself or herself of a need until he or she is in the proper place for it…“we” wait to eat until work is over. “We” wait to sleep until we are home. “We” wait to use the bathroom until we are in a proper place for bathrooming.

However, the breastfeeding issue is not really a woman’s issue. It is the *baby’s *issue. Babies don’t know how to wait and don’t understand why they should wait till Mom is in the “proper” place for breastfeeding. A baby’s needs must be met, and a mother sacrifices herself to meet those needs.

If breastfeeding remains an issue about babies and a baby’s “right to eat”, then time and place shouldn’t matter anymore than the time and place matter when feeding a baby with a bottle. But when breastfeeding becomes an issue about "women’s rights"and “whipping it all out” just to prove a point, then women act to serve themselves, not their children.

The “problem” is that there is no way of knowing a breastfeeding mother’s intent, so we should in charity assume the best.

 

[jilly4ski]

I thought about not posting, but I really enjoy the people who either don’t have kids or have never breastfed say it needs to be done in moderation. So having a screaming baby is better than letting a mother breastfeed her baby in public. Babies got to eat when babies got to eat, and scheduling the feeding so you don’t have to feed when you are out only works so well, and waiting until you get home to feed an already hungry baby doesn’t work at all.

I agree that a certain amount of discretion should be used when feeding. However, that does not mean going into a restroom. You wouldn’t eat your lunch in a restroom, I am not going to make a baby eat in a restroom. Just today I had to feed my son at church because he was tired and it was his nap time. So I fed him, discreetly right in the pew. I was wearing a nursing tank under my shirt so my abdomen was covered and my shirt rested on the baby’s face so no skin was showing. I find this is discrete enough for any public place.

 

[cmscms]

Not any more than a man should blame women for not being attracted to him if he wears pink and puts on make-up and acts like he’s going to faint any minute.

.

Hi Chevalier,

The part about the man fainting any minute is the funniest and cutest thing ever. I LOVE your sense of humour

And I actually like most of your answers. Sometimes your language gets very poetic and I am not exactly sure what you are trying to say. Personally, I wish there were more men with your views. When I think of God creating woman, I think he has a special purpose in mind and in my opinion, your views are closely aligned with the ones God wants you to have.

Thank you so much for your post

CM

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

*I have enjoyed this thread…thanks for posting.

Just an aside about breastfeeding…it’s not immodest. So to say…a woman should do so modestly…that doesn’t make a lot of sense. She should be discreet…yes, we all don’t need to see it…but, I don’t mind seeing a woman breastfeed…it’s a beautiful, natural thing. It’s not sexy or sexual…breasts were created to provide sustenance for babies…not for sex. That’s the fall (and continual fall…how far can we fall?) of mankind talking.

Question…if you see a breastfeeding woman once in a blue moon…so what? Where are you people hanging out as to where you’re seeing sooo breastfeeding women to where it’s a problem? *

I like your ideas. I agree with everything but one point: It’s not our fallen nature that has made breasts into sexual objects. It’s totally human nature. There is a biological reason why men should be attracted to large breasts - it means better feeding of the children. Just like how men are programmed to be attracted to hips (wide hips are birthing hips) and the butt (more body fat - but not too much - is desireable in women to sustain a healthy pregnancy). Just as women are typically attracted to wide shoulders, stocky build, and tall. Breasts are beautiful things (even scripture calls them that) and should be respected as such. Women should be able to breastfeed in public all they want, but they shouldn’t be whipping it out anywhere they want. There are great modesty blankets out there now that makes the process incredibly modest and easy.

 

[cmscms]

Personally I think it’s fantastic in most respects! Why shouldn’t women be a free and have the same rights as men? The Bible doesn’t say women should be oppressed in the least, why are you suggesting that is a good thing?

I don’t see how being free means a woman has to do degrading behaviour. I am all for equal rights but I don’t see how that equates to having to act immorally? I dont think I quite understand what you are trying to say

 

[JeffersonD]

If I was not discerning the priesthood I would only pursue, I can’t think of a better word at the moment but I don’t like the way I phrased that, a woman who dressed modestly. I say this because if they are modestly dressed then they are most likely more modest in other aspects of life.

Women that dress without modesty cause to much distraction and way too much opportunity for lust. I’ve learned from a past experience that it is often difficult to discern lust from love and when I finally realized I was not in love with my girlfriend and only lusted after her I broke up with her. If you are dressed modestly then I can discover my love for you without having the constant lustful thoughts.

God bless, and I thank God for all who dress with modesty.

Jeff

 

[cmscms]

is there some reason breastfeeding in public is linked with all these other things? what precisely is your agenda, fella, and yes you will find this discussion getting quite heated if you think a woman feeding her baby is a sex object.

First of all I am a woman. I don’t think I would need a man’s opinion if I was a man.

I feel attacked because you are putting words into my mouth and jumping to conclusions. The breastfeeding linked to this thread is in no way attaching feeding a baby into a sex object. It is linked to this thread because it is a change in how women behave. When I was a kid no woman wanted to breastfeed in public. It is simply just another point about how woman’s opinions have changed.

And it is linked in the sense (that I have tried to explain in another posts) some women appear to be using it as a way to get attention in the following sense. Some women think ‘Now that I am a mom the whole world is suppose to cater to me’. And I disagree. Yes society should help mom’s but mom’s can not expect the whole world to cater to their child. It was not the act I was trying to comment on so much as the attitude.

And bottom line, just because a baby needs to eat and breast milk is the healthy option, men are still the opposite sex. They should understand feeding a baby but I don’t necessarily think it is fare to expect them to not have a reaction (whether it is discomfort or arousal) when they see a bare breast. They are human and women should remember that.

 

[cmscms]

I thought about not posting, but I really enjoy the people who either don’t have kids or have never breastfed say it needs to be done in moderation. So having a screaming baby is better than letting a mother breastfeed her baby in public. Babies got to eat when babies got to eat, and scheduling the feeding so you don’t have to feed when you are out only works so well, and waiting until you get home to feed an already hungry baby doesn’t work at all.

I totally sympathize with how hard it can be to keep a baby on schedule but I also think there are certain options. Is it not possible to put some breast milk in a bottle and bring the bottle with you in case of emergencies?

Also, I understand that mom’s need to go out like in your example they want to go to church and they do have errands to run. But on the other hand, isn’t part of being a mom having to have to make sacrifices and there are some places if you can’t afford a sitter you just should not go? I went to watch a male friend play baseball. It was a man’s league. One guy’s wife was there breastfeeding. Is it really necessary to bring babies to those places? Do men not have the right to their once a week sports activity without being made uncomfortable? Ok, I know I just invited a lot of insults.

CM

 

[LongingForLight]

The fact that women opnely and publicly breast feed makes you uncomfortable to me shows deep down you do understand the sacredness of our bodies.

I beg your pardon? Breasts are not for sexual intercourse, like genitalia. They are built-in bottles. What is wrong with a woman using her God-given natural bottles in public?

Personally, I feel objectified when a man implies that there is something wrong with me feeding my baby in public. I don’t like having my nursing breasts - one of my most feminine and wholesome, family-oriented body parts - reduced to sex objects that ought to be hidden when they are being used as God intended them to be.

Your attitudes towards breastfeeding are not old-fashioned, either, but really relatively modern. I was raised by my grandmother who had children before such attitudes were the norm (she’s turning 89 this year), and she definitely indoctrinated me with her old-fashioned view that breasts were simply functional - and NOT sexual - when used properly (and by this she meant, when they were used to feed a baby). Covering up was not the norm in the early 1900’s in the US (and has never been the norm in some places) - there are lots of great historical pictures of mothers nursing, and they usually have the whole thing pulled out over the top of their shirt (I would agree, however, that this is no longer appropriate in the highly disordered sexual climate of the modern day). For even more old-fashioned examples, look at all the places where Mother Mary is depicted nursing the infant Christ . Do you really think people were frequently painting Christ’s mother doing an action that is not appropriate in public? Nursing Madonna pictures are a classic!

My apologies for derailing this thread, but I find this reasoning very offensive, largely because I do see such a strong correlation between men being offended by nursing (to clarify, I don’t mean just being a little uncomfortable), and men having disordered attitudes towards women. Breastfeeding apparently reminds men with a tendancy to objectify women that female bodies are geared towards children - and such men generally prefer to forget that sex is intended to have children as its consequence. Such men can view a woman in a bikini showing everything but the nipple, and think it’s great - but if she should show a mere inch of skin, with the baby over the nipple and most of the aereola, they will react with disgust.