Mental Illness and Leaving the Church

[Tis_Bearself]

Isnt having all the answers to your spiritual and behavioral problems what every church advertises?? Ask, and you shall receive. Seek and ye shall find. We have the grace you need here in our church.

The Catholic Church advertises that it has the real presence of Jesus Christ in its Church in the form of the Eucharist. It also promises you the grace to build a better relationship with Jesus Christ. Note that the person themself is expected to build this relationship. The Church provides guidance and tools and helpful graces, but the person is expected to do the work. The Church doesn’t just hand you a package and say, “Here’s all the answers to your life and salvation!” The Church doesn’t do your work for you.

You seem to be looking for a church that does your work for you, answers your every question, and takes care of your every need in life. The Church never promised anybody that. I’m sorry if you misunderstood or were somehow mistaken. And no, I don’t think it’s a “reasonable assumption” for you to make, but I’m a cradle Catholic not a convert, and I also don’t have mental illness, so I can’t speak to how your background might have affected or warped your perception.

 

[Annie]

I don’t think support groups are the answer to everything. I have read that some people who eventually realized their “recovered” memories of abuse were false felt that being involved in group therapy had helped the creation of false memories along, for example.

A Catholic support group can be just as badly run as a secular one

I have a degree in Psychology and I’m certain I have Borderline personality disorder and a good dose of Narcissism. ADHD as well. So, anxiety and depression go hand in hand with all of this.

OK, you are forever doomed.

Is that the way you want to look at it? You say that you are certain you have these conditions so it sounds like you have not been formally diagnosed, so it may be that you do not have them.

Do you think that being certain you have those conditions is helping you or hurting you? Because it seems to me that thinking that is not helping you. You appear to feel helpless in the face of those diagnoses.

If you saw yourself as a flawed person with selfish parts, jealous or envious parts, judgemental parts, etc., would that be helpful?

For me, it would be. If I thought I had a condition of some sort, I would feel defeated. But if I thought I had a bad habit or several bad habits, that would seem surmountable. I could say, maybe the Church doesn’t have a way out for a narcissist, but it certainly does for a selfish person, so let me see what God and I can do as a team.

I spent some time considering various people I knee asnarcissists, BPD, ODD, etc… But that did not work well for me. It seemed too lopsided, as if the person we all bad and no good at all.

Deciding to abandon these types of labels and just praying for them was a really good thing for me to do!

 

[Knightswhosayni]

Yeah, it would be hard to understand what I’m expressing, if you have no experience with these issues. You’ve all brought up good points and perspectives to consider. People who need God desperately and are hurting do expect to find the help, the love and mercy they need. I dont expect to never work, or for it to be easy. A cross isn’t easy, but I did expect better help. I did not expect to find the better answers outside of the church. It’s like the church says, “you’re very spiritually immature”, but then tells me nothing to do to fix that other than repent and pray. I could repent and pray all day, but if I never step into a counselor’s office, then nothing would change. I’m happy to go to the counselor and do the work. Why can’t a church provide the same help? Why are they so removed from the better answer?

 

[Dorothy]

Why do devils shrink back at the mention of her name? Because of her humility. Humility is Mary’s middle name, and makes her who she is.

Yes! Mary’s humility! She is nothing and she knows it. She is like a clear pane of glass that allows the Holy Trinity to shine through perfectly…no smudges.

And she suffered very much as a sword of sorrow pierced her heart.

Our Lord Jesus Christ gave her to us at the foot of the cross!

 

[Knightswhosayni]

It has helped way ,way, way more to understand these conditions. Before, comparing my behavior to what I should be doing was in no way helpful. Understanding why I behaved this way and why it was hurtful was the key to everything. To understand what I’m doing to others in detail. These were the largest blessings I’ve ever received. I began to unlearn alot. It’s still a struggle. I’m disappointed that the church was not a great help to me. I’m not a total idiot. If I took at test, I’d be honest. But, I’m smart enough to know which answers would lead to a specific diagnosis. I read and researched myself, so I could identify and get rid of these behaviors. I talked to my counselor about it. She asked, “Would paying for a label on paper help you?”. No, the answers is no.

 

[Knightswhosayni]

Annie, I’m sorry, but you definitely dont get my perspective. It’s fine that you don’t. But, what’s helpful for you, is not for me. I’m not scared of a label. I dont feel doomed. I feel the church has no tools to be helpful, unless you’re without these types of illnesses. In fact, a good bit of their advice is confusing and unhelpful.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I understand it can be frustrating when you are hurting (we all have times in our life when we hurt, such as when we’re grieving a death) and you go to church and hear some homily that is really unhelpful and not what you need at the time. When that happens, please don’t take it to heart. Just say, “God, maybe somebody in the church needed to hear that message today, but it wasn’t me.” And then maybe read some scripture or something to make yourself feel better.

I pretty much go to Church for one reason and one reason only: to be close to Jesus Christ in his Real Presence and to partake of the Sacraments that help me get closer to him.
I don’t go there to hear a homily, so if I hear a good one it’s a gift, and if I don’t hear a good one then it’s easily dismissed. My mother always said, “We don’t go to Mass to listen to the priest talk.”
I don’t go there for help with my life, other than God giving me the supernatural help to deal with my issues. God has been helpful, and I didn’t expect anything from others, so I am not disappointed.

Churches are made up of loads and loads of people who are often if not mostly dealing with their own struggles and hurts. Best to keep expectations of others low and put your faith, hope and trust in Jesus to help you and Mary, Joseph, the saints to pray for you. That’s my approach anyway.

I will pray for you.

 

[Knightswhosayni]

I’ve definitely lowered my expectations for my own sanity. I guess my point is the assumptions I had made about the church shouldnt be unreasonable. The church sets a high bar on us, is it not reasonable to set a high bar in return?? Apparently, it’s not. I can accept that, but I spent a miserable time realizing and accepting that. God is the only one who matters. We, his minions, are a ridiculous bunch.

 

[Servant31]

Hmm ok. I hear you on that. The quote I’ve often heard is “The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a storehouse for saints”.

Ive struggled with judgmental people myself. But honestly…that’s sin right… they aren’t supposed to be acting that way. Self righteousness is another one Ive seen some. There just seems to be a Roman militant cohort who have decided it’s their business to sanctify the rest of the world, according to their own infallible judgements… with force. But that’s also sin. I can remember the nuns in maybe third grade “you worry about YOU”. Lol turns out that was good advice for us.
I actually would reccomend saying a prayer for them and excusing yourself. Those are difficult groups to engage with imho. We have to love each other, but nit everyone sees things from the same perspective.

In regards to your priest, he is probably hitting on some important points on sin (I could only guess as Im not there there). He is probably speaking to the whole congregation though, and in our modern world sin is a pretty big problem.

We are called to grow, but you don’t go from no exercise to marathons in a week… it’s a process, it takes time. It’s also important to get good information about what church teaching really is, and in the appropriate context as well. Some areas have quite a bit of nuance.

But just to your situation, it sounds like you’ve potentially hit some burnout? Do you feel you have a priest, even if it’s outside your parish that you could speak to honestly about these things?

 

[Knightswhosayni]

I guess I just tuned out for awhile now. I wouldn’t be opposed to connecting with a priest or spiritual director. I’ve just had to let go of alot of resentment. I have definitely matured in how I approach and compare myself to other followers now. I’m as judgemental as any of them. I just hated that they took ownership of what holiness is. I let myself disconnect from all of it, so I could understand and heal without all the noise and conflicting feelings.

 

[anon98328916]

The Church and the people who are supposed to represent Christ are two very different things. Some are Judas’s but many are good Holy people. The Church itself is Holy, because Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to protect His church until He returns. Those that are in error should never make you leave the Church Jesus founded, the bride of Christ! Stay with her until the end because of her founder.

Jesus said in the Divine Mercy Novena about those who separate themselves from His church Fifth Day:
“Today bring to Me the souls of those who have separated themselves from My Church, and immerse them in the ocean of My mercy. During My bitter Passion they tore at My Body and Heart, that is, My Church. As they return to unity with the Church, My wounds heal and in this way they alleviate My Passion.”

 

[Servant31]

Hmm ok makes sense. Just from what your describing to me my guess would be a good spiritual director (usually a good priest) would be a good element. I would definitely try to find one who you feel like you can be honest with. It doesn’t have to be in your parish, either. I do spiritual direction outside of my own. My family is highly involved in the parish community, great people, and also highly involved in community politics and a bit controlling…no thanks. Try to find an independent priest somewhere if you think that would be helpful. Try to be honest about your concerns and open to constructive feedback. Just from what you’ve described it sounds like there might be some unreasonable expectations formed somewhere (perhaps by others, perhaps by you)? That can happen pretty easily in certain environments. Many if us have done that somewhere in the journey.

Counseling might also be useful in the mix as well to help with any psychological challenges? As long as you could find one who is respectful of your faith (this isn’t always a given) this might be a positive avenue?

It can be really tough ( especially as someone newer) to move into a faith community and meet expectations formed by others. I wrote the above because I think it’s really important to understand what the real standards are, not what others might say they are. If those aren’t accurate it can do more harm than good.

But also, ultimately it’s about a relationship with God. He is the true judge. But he is a just judge, and a good friend in many ways. Sure there are standards, but He is there to help. For these types of situations I think Jesus left us some advice:

“Come to me all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest”.

Matthew 11:28-30 - - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

 

[TheLittleLady]

How to be a better mother for instance.

I am so sorry that you have not found community

Know that there are many parishes where community is strong, where there are groups just for moms, conferences, etc (my parish will have a big conference this summer and “Raising Godly Children” is only one of the breakout sessions).

About Confession, it makes me angry when people say “after confession you feel like a weight dropped and you walk out on a cloud and butterflies”. I’ve felt that way after confession exactly one time. We are not a faith of feelings. We know we are forgiven after a good confession, the healing is healing of our wounded relationship with Christ.

About Mental Illness, our Diocese has a St Dymphna society with monthly meetings, we are trying to get it also moved out into parishes.

The Church has a good resource for ministry with persons with mental illness:

https://ncpd.org/disability-ministry/mental-illness

I pray you find another parish or a Diocese group who will accompany you.

 

[LilyM]

She does suffer sinful children with us, I suppose, but I mean that’s in a heavenly way. While on Earth, she never suffered raising one. Maybe I’ll embrace this better as time goes on.

She had to flee to Egypt when He was a child, she lost Him for three days, she saw Him persecuted, tortured and killed for preaching when He could have stayed in Nazareth as a carpenter and avoided the harm.

He was God,.true, but He was absolutely a cause of great suffering for her. What makes you say she didn’t suffer when scripture tells.us clearly the complete opposite is true.

 

[Knightswhosayni]

Eh, I really dont feel that compares. Loss and pain like this is worlds away from sinful pain and suffering. She wouldn’t know what it’s like to despise motherhood and parenting. I mean, I’m getting through it, but it’s hard to align my suffering with that. It’s really two different things, imop.

 

[Knightswhosayni]

Thinking about her perfection really just stirs up more guilt.

 

[tstadheim]

Some private devotions may even exacerbate psychological issues and so should be chosen carefully or abandoned with the guidance of a spiritual director.

I’m curious about this. Which private devotions typically exacerbate mental illness?

 

[Knightswhosayni]

Thanks for the link. I do see the church making an effort and trying, which I give them credit for. It took way too long to get there, imo. It’s almost as if they’d prefer we forget the past very quickly. Meanwhile, how many people did they hurt in this long process of better addressing it?? I can forgive at this point, but the disappointments have been substantial. It’s not easy to forgive not being their for those who most need it.

 

[Servant31]

Good Post

 

[Neithan]

I’m curious about this. Which private devotions typically exacerbate mental illness?

I won’t comment on that, because it’s very case-by-case and I don’t want to cast aspersions on any particular devotion; a practice that may be beneficial for one person may be detrimental for another. It is always important to discern carefully, but especially for someone with mental health issues.