Merged: Discussion with Jehovah's Whitnesses/Advice Needed Badly - Catholic V Jw's

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MyPhilomena, your story paints a pretty sad picture of life in the jw’s but I’m so glad it had a happy ending for you! Thanks very much for sharing it, its certainly food for thought.

I had a chat with my girlfriend last night, basically asking her what she wants to happen. She says she would love for me to believe what she does as she wants me to survive Armageddon (she thinks it will happen within our lifetime) but she can’t make me believe, only I can do that. I told her that while I respect her beliefs I’ve got major issues with a lot of what the watchtower teaches and she has to realise that my faith is so important to me. She says she really loves me and there is no way we would have to split up if I refused to become a jw.

She said something else though, she said that if her mum could prove from the Bible that the jw’s are right then surely I would have to accept it (she is REALLY confident her mum can do this). I said what would happen if I could do the same to her and she said she would feel shattered but she would have to accept it. This has given me the idea that maybe instead of worrying about me having to convert maybe I should start to show her the Truth of the Catholic faith and how wrong the watchtower is. My gf hasn’t been baptised a jw, she doesn’t go to meetings and her sister has actually been disfellowed, resulting in her dad also not going to meetings. Having said that they do all believe the watchtower, but maybe I can show her otherwise.

Its going to have to be done over time though and I still need to get up to speed on everything as well. Pray God helps me bacause I really don’t want to lose her. I’m so glad I found this site, its got everything you need to know!
 
Chris, just let me repeat, to make use of the excellent materials over at the www.catholicxjw.com site…
I have done some reading on the JWs in my life, but I have learned more from Jeff’s site than all the rest combined. He is a terrific man of God, who had done an excellent job of pulling together information. As an ex-JW himself, he has lots of good info to offer!!
 
Zooey said:
Chris, just let me repeat, to make use of the excellent materials over at the www.catholicxjw.com site…
I have done some reading on the JWs in my life, but I have learned more from Jeff’s site than all the rest combined. He is a terrific man of God, who had done an excellent job of pulling together information. As an ex-JW himself, he has lots of good info to offer!!
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Jeff and his lovely wife are amazing people, and they are very helpful when you have alot of questions regarding that belief. You can find some pretty amazing conversion stories there too. ( from ex jw to Catholic )
 
chris1888 said:
MyPhilomena, your story paints a pretty sad picture of life in the jw’s but I’m so glad it had a happy ending for you! Thanks very much for sharing it, its certainly food for thought.

I had a chat with my girlfriend last night, basically asking her what she wants to happen. She says she would love for me to believe what she does as she wants me to survive Armageddon (she thinks it will happen within our lifetime) but she can’t make me believe, only I can do that. I told her that while I respect her beliefs I’ve got major issues with a lot of what the watchtower teaches and she has to realise that my faith is so important to me. She says she really loves me and there is no way we would have to split up if I refused to become a jw.

She said something else though, she said that if her mum could prove from the Bible that the jw’s are right then surely I would have to accept it (she is REALLY confident her mum can do this). I said what would happen if I could do the same to her and she said she would feel shattered but she would have to accept it. This has given me the idea that maybe instead of worrying about me having to convert maybe I should start to show her the Truth of the Catholic faith and how wrong the watchtower is. My gf hasn’t been baptised a jw, she doesn’t go to meetings and her sister has actually been disfellowed, resulting in her dad also not going to meetings. Having said that they do all believe the watchtower, but maybe I can show her otherwise.

Its going to have to be done over time though and I still need to get up to speed on everything as well. Pray God helps me bacause I really don’t want to lose her. I’m so glad I found this site, its got everything you need to know!
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showing her the Truth of the Catholic Faith is the best idea yet.but you should never have to convert to jw way of thinking just to not lose her. stand your ground, and i can guarentee you that their bible is wrong, it has been changed to suit their belief. they will deny it until the cows come home, but facts are facts, and the facts stand true.

put your trust in Jesus, and do some research, don’t let them blind side you my friend. Stand firm, and be loving with them, but at the same time, arm yourself with knowledge. The jw lifestyle is not a good one, they paint a happy picture, and tell you that you need to be a jw to survive armageddon, about that, the Bible says that no man knows the hour or the day when the Son of Man is coming, not even we Catholics know it.

do not trouble yourself about armageddon. Trust in Jesus keep going to Mass, and give your lovely gf the link to Jeff Schwehms website. She will be surprised. Don’t tell her what it is about either, just let her find out on her own. If you tell her, she might shy away. leave the link on a piece of paper laying around where she frequents in the house, and if you see her pick up the paper and go online, don’t let her know your observing. Let her find out on her own. Keep talking to her about our faith, get Jason Everts book, and read it. It is fabulous, and then you will have armed yourself with powerful knowledge that can save both your gf and her mother, and possibly even other family members.

God bless you my friend, and let us know what happens.
 
Chirs, under my profile, you can see there is a link, type in the link and you’ll be able to read my story there. it is sad at times, but perhaps you ought to look at it if you want. if not, then that is okay. It was hard for me to write, but never the less, if it helps someone out, then it has been worth the effort for me to write it and share it.
 
I have sent you the link in a pm to you Chris. It is too long to post it here in the profile.
 
Please be careful when talking to a jw. I have talked to them many times and the ones who are most rabid are the ones who make things up on the fly. If you say you know when they started, the one I talked to said that they were the original church but had to stay in hiding until now. He also had to say that Charles Taz Russell did not start the jw’s. It is difficult to disprove things that are false way back in history when they say that history is distorted and revisionary. Watch out for the games they play.
mdcpensive1
 
mdcpensive1 said:
Please be careful when talking to a jw. I have talked to them many times and the ones who are most rabid are the ones who make things up on the fly. If you say you know when they started, the one I talked to said that they were the original church but had to stay in hiding until now. He also had to say that Charles Taz Russell did not start the jw’s. It is difficult to disprove things that are false way back in history when they say that history is distorted and revisionary. Watch out for the games they play.
mdcpensive1
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they do not like to talk about mr. russel. however, the book, Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses by Jason Evert gives a clear history of the jw’s from how they started right up to the current time, so they can be evasive all the want, if someone has that book, then the jw’s will have a hard time trying to fool anyone.
 
I actually brought up the subject of the esteemed Mr Russell a few weeks ago. I asked if he was their founder and was told that the jw’s have always been around, he was merely the one who founded the watchtower and organised them. At that point I didn’t have the info I have now so I just bit my lip, I won’t any more though!

The more I’m reading and finding out about them, the more I realise just how mixed up their beliefs are. I’ve got a feeling that when I point out the holes in their doctrine they will just see it as lies made up to discredit them though.
 
chris1888 said:
I actually brought up the subject of the esteemed Mr Russell a few weeks ago. I asked if he was their founder and was told that the jw’s have always been around, he was merely the one who founded the watchtower and organised them. At that point I didn’t have the info I have now so I just bit my lip, I won’t any more though!

The more I’m reading and finding out about them, the more I realise just how mixed up their beliefs are. I’ve got a feeling that when I point out the holes in their doctrine they will just see it as lies made up to discredit them though.
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they do not want to admit that he is their founder because of his past. they always try to hide that fact, as well as the things rutherford has done. when you arm yourself with knowledge, and you know you have the facts, they will bawk at it and claim your wordly, and swept up in the world view, and in the “system of things”. As well as speaking to Jeff Schwehm. When you piont out their blatant mistakes they get defensive, and try to cover it over and say things like, well, we have new light shed on that particular subject, our governing body has pointed that out to us! the WTB&TS discourages independet thinking, they do not want their members to think anything other than watchtower. they claim that when you read material that points out errors with the society that satan has a hold on you, and that your damned for all eternity. this is the common talk they use whenever you point out their errors. it is a way to cast off the blame that they do not want to admit to. lawrence hughes has suffered badly at the hands of the society, he lost his beloved daughter, and for what? for nothing. her life could’ve been saved. instead, she lost it. he lost a beloved child. to many people have died because of their allegiance to the falsetower. keep arming yourself with knowledge about them, and as i have stated before, do not get caught up by their beliefs because their beliefs are false. it leads to heart ache
and family heart ache for those who love you and are trying to protect one from getting involved with the society. iam not just speaking of my own situation, but thousands of others who joined the society and forsook their own families and are lost to the society for good. the society is like a regime, they tell you that you must believe what they teach, or face the consenquences. that they are right, and all others are wrong. if you go against what they teach, your damned for all eternity, and there is no going back. they use this as a fear tactic to keep their members in line. it is wrong of them to do that. God created man with free will, and the will to question things. we have a moral right to question beliefs and we have a moral right to point out error without fear of being damned for all eternity. God is the Judge of what will happen to us, not a society that claims to speak for Him. Put your trust in Him, and not in a society that tells you what your fate will be if you don’t listen to them.
 
Just to compliment what has been offered so far. There has been a lot of good advice and links given. Something I personally have found beneficial through trial and error is to keep to one topic. Don’t think you have to answer all of their questions at that meeting or that they have to answer yours right then and there.

Start out with one topic and stay on that topic as long as it takes. I like to start out with the deity of Jesus Christ. Define your terms and do a good amount of research on what they believe and of course what we believe. If you bounce around from one topic to another you won’t accomplish to much. It will be a learning experience and a worthwile one. Hope this helped…
 
I wonder how many of those 8,000 are JEWISH? :rolleyes:

Revelation 7

1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: **144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. **
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
 
We went 'round & 'round with a sister-in-law who has been a JW for 30 years. I have never been so frustrated in my Life!
But for some fun, combine the verses about the 144,000 from chapter 7:1 - 8 above with Chapter 14:3 - 5 “…and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are spotless.”
So, what you have is 144,000 sinless male Jewish virgins – no JW’s allowed. Since they take the 144,000 absolutely literally, they cannot get themselves out of this corner.
One more piece of advice. They’ve been trained to make their point and then tune out your response. I could see my sister-in-law fade out when I tried to reply.
DON’T LET THEM DO THAT!
Keep them involved, ask them questions. Ask them to respond to what you’ve just said or defend their point again. And DO NOT allow them to play Bible bingo! Do not move on until you’re completely satisfied that you’ve exhusted your point on a Scripture passage they’ve tried to confuse you with.
Good Luck.
 
originally posted by Strider
And DO NOT allow them to play Bible bingo!
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Most important!!
And they will.
If they can not refute you, they will try to jump to a completely different topic.
Once again, DO NOT allow a jw to control a conversation.
 
About a year ago some JW’s came to my door, I invited them back for a descussion the next week, and we have been meeting every Monday since. I had never done this before, but I felt somehow drawn to talk to this woman. She has brought one of many different people each week. We have had some good discussions, although we have not agreed on much.

Over this period of time I have found one thing in common with all of them in regards to the Trinity. They all insist that the Catholic Church teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one person. They dismiss the Trinity dogma as beyond comprehension, and therefore obviously just a fabrication of apostasy. The woman that I meet with every week has stopped suggesting that we teach that they are the same person, but each of the people she brings with her makes this claim. It is almost like, once I call one of them on it, they just get someone else to make the claim.

At first I thought that it was just ignorance, and belief in what they had been told. The correction I thought would be accepted, now I am not so sure.

This week she brought with her a former Greek Orthodox woman who speakes Greek (somewhat) and had a Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the bible. (The KIT is an interlinear translation that is published by the WTS, and it exposes all of the mistranslation in the New World Translation). Well, she proceeded to tell me that the phrase “all things” has the same meaning as “all [other] things” in relation to Christ creating all things. :confused: (I guess they just stick to their gunns no matter what ) The thing that really ticked me off is when she made the same claim that all the others did, tha the Trinity doctrine claims that all three are “one person”. :mad: As a former Greek Orthodox I was sure she knew better. I had a hard time attributing her claim to ignorance. :mad:

Well, my question is, does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle this? Is there a way to make my point?

At the end of our last meeting it was suggested to me that I just read the Bible, and forget about everything that they said, and everything that I have been taught. “Just read the Bible”.

I have done just fine to this point, and I figured that if they didn’t agree with me at least maybe I would give them something to think about. This last meeting was the first time that I actually became angry, about what I saw a “feigned ignorance” by a former Greek Orthodox. I would like to find a way to continue in the spirit of Christ discussing these matters with them.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
It is not your Job to Convert them tracy it is the Holy Spirits. If you got angry it is time to dismiss the relatinoship in a Christ Like manner before you dismiss it in a way that does not honor God. …I would say the Holy Spirit has used you to plant a whole bunch of seeds of truth…🙂 …if your not there to see the conversions, then no big deal…“dust off your feet” and move on 🙂

and you posting this is not just for you, it was no accident i typed these words for you, so God could show me what I need to do in some areas of my life…

Peace of Christ be with you!!
 
TheGarg said:
It is not your Job to Convert them tracy it is the Holy Spirits. If you got angry it is time to dismiss the relatinoship in a Christ Like manner before you dismiss it in a way that does not honor God. …I would say the Holy Spirit has used you to plant a whole bunch of seeds of truth…🙂 …if your not there to see the conversions, then no big deal…“dust off your feet” and move on 🙂

and you posting this is not just for you, it was no accident i typed these words for you, so God could show me what I need to do in some areas of my life…

Peace of Christ be with you!!
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Thank You, Garg:)

I love your signature.🙂
 
I have looked in to the watchtower and read many of the books, and my boss is one of them.You can never act as though you are trying to teach them anything, because they are taught that beliefs that are different from theres are from satan, especially if you are catholic, the Beast in Revelation or protestant the beasts daughters,they are taught that we are the antichrist’s who believe in the evil doctrine of the trinity.You must always act as the student asking questions, the aim being to try to make them doubt the watchtower, they will always have an answer as many of them have a book covering nearly every question you can think of, so a good knowledge of scripture is essential. Whenever they read from the new world translation always put it in context with what the author was saying,for example versus in front and after the verse they are reading.Be very careful they meet four times a week to practice.
 
Hi, I’ve also been having a bit of trouble with jw’s. I asked for help on a thread called Advice needed Badly - Catholics v jw. You should check it out because the advice I have recieved has been excellent!

People on this forum really know what they are talking about.

God Bless
 
I’ll help you the best I can.

This is from Jason Evert’s book Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses

Chapter 3: Should you believe in the Trinity?

page 66

"Lastly, Origen is also said by the Watchtower to have had no knowledge of the Trinity. But the following passages demonstrate the unreliability of this claim. In the first of them, Origen explicitly condemns the idea that Jesus is a created being:

For we do not hold that which the heretics imagine : that some part of the Being of God was converted into the Son, or that the Son was procreated by the Father from non-existant substances, that is from a Being outside himself, so that there were a time when he the Son] did not exist.

No, rejecting every suggestion of corporeality, we hold that the Word and the Wisdom was begotten out of the invisble and incorporeal God, without anything corporeal being acted upon…the expression which we employ, however that there was never a time when he did not exist is to be taken with a certain allowance. For these very words “when” and “never” are terms of temporal significance, while whatever is said of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is to be understood as transcending all time, all ages, and all eternity.

From which we learn that the person of the Holy Spirit was of such authority and dignity, that saving baptism was not complete except by the authority of the most excellent Trinity.

For it is one and the same thing to have a share in the Holy Spirit, which is ( the Spirit ) of the Father and the Son, since the nature of the Trinity is one and incorporeal.

Although he was God, he took flesh; and having been made man, he remained what he was: God.
 
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