MERGED: Immaculate Conception Holy Day in the USA and Obligation

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Vico said:
maddogdm,

The canon has “diebus dominicis et festis”. **The obligation **applies of Sundays and holydays. Another translation of et is also. A day is defined as midnight to midnight in the canons. An extension for fulfillment is allowed on the previous day.
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I am not arguing that there is only one holy day of obligation, there are obviously many Sundays and also (et) quite a few diebus festis. We are talking about two consecutive holydays (plural). Do I have to spell that out? I am arguing that there is only ONE OBLIGATION, to observe those days by attending Mass. If the times to satisfy the obligation (singular) for any given days (plural) overlap, then one mass during the overlapping time is sufficient. The canon has obligation and Mass in the singular, although that is not the main part of my argument. The canon is written in general terms to avoid casuistry and anxiety, and you are multiplying the obligation.
 
maddogdm said:
I am not arguing that there is only one holy day of obligation, there are obviously many Sundays and also (et) quite a few diebus festis. We are talking about two consecutive holydays (plural). Do I have to spell that out? I am arguing that there is only ONE OBLIGATION, to observe those days by attending Mass. If the times to satisfy the obligation (singular) for any given days (plural) overlap, then one mass during the overlapping time is sufficient. The canon has obligation and Mass in the singular, although that is not the main part of my argument. The canon is written in general terms to avoid casuistry and anxiety, and you are multiplying the obligation.
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It is specifically because you were applying to consecutive days that I posted. The canon states that a Sunday and a holyday are on different days and there is an obligation for each day, even consecutive.
 
Thanks for being here Dr. Peters. 👍

FYI, Tom and I were in the same Moral Theology class (w Dr. Latkovic), tell him I said ‘Hi’
 
Vico said:
The canon states that a Sunday and a holyday are on different days and there is an obligation for **EACH **day, even consecutive.
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Now you’re latin must be better than mine! I can’t see a word for **each **there. It is certainly not in the English, Spanish, German, Italian or any other version either. If it were, you and others would have a case. Perhaps it will be inserted in the future. Until then all that is required is that you observe the feast by attending mass (singular) during the times (plural) given in canon 1248. Attending mass in the period where the times (plural) for the two feasts(plural) overlap fulfills the obligation (singular). Stop inserting extra words into the canon to suit your interpretation, it causes people undue anxiety.
 
maddogdm said:
Now you’re latin must be better than mine! I can’t see a word for **each **there. It is certainly not in the English, Spanish, German, Italian or any other version either. If it were, you and others would have a case. Perhaps it will be inserted in the future. Until then all that is required is that you observe the feast by attending mass (singular) during the times (plural) given in canon 1248. Attending mass in the period where the times (plural) for the two feasts(plural) overlap fulfills the obligation (singular). Stop inserting extra words into the canon to suit your interpretation, it causes people undue anxiety.
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Existence of an obligation and fulfillment of an obligation are different concepts. A Mass obligation exists for each specified day. That is why the statement was made in the commentary before that “two obligations means two satisfactions”.
 
I am going to Mass tonight for the Holy Day. my parish USUALLY has Masses on the night before at 5:30, then the DAY OF at 6:30 AM (regular daily mass time). 8:15 AM (regular daily Mass time that is the school Mass time) and 6:30 PM. However, since SATURDAY is the Holy Day…we have Mass scheduled at 5:30 PM tonight and 8 and 10 AM Saturday morning. Our Saturday night Mass is the SUNDAY READINGS for the 2nd Sunday of Advent. There is no “combo” where one Mass counts for TWO obligations. Even the year, several years back…when Christmas Eve was ALSO the 4th Sunday of Advent…there were 2 DIFFERENT Masses…and no, Sunday morning’s 4th Sunday of Advent did NOT also count for Christmas (it was Christmas Eve morning)
 
GodHeals said:
jmjconder;10096622:
So it seems Friday Night Dec. 7th at 7pm would meet the requirement. It is a Vigil Mass for IC. Please confirm.
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Yes, 100%.

The general consensus is that any Mass from Friday evening to midnight Saturday staisfies the IC obligation (regardless of readings). It can be a Mass of the IC, for the 2nd Sunday of Advent, a wedding or funeral with other readings, a TLM or an Eastern or Oriental Catholic Mass. The readings have no bearing on fulfilling the obligation.

There is then a 2nd obligation for Sunday that can be fulfilled from Sat. evening to Sunday midnight. Again, any Mass in that period counts.

The only restriction is that you can’t double-dip one Mass to count for both in the overlap Sat. eve.

God Bless
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Hi everyone, thanks for the answers! My question was not whether one Mass would satisfy the two obligations. I know that for two different obligations, there must be two Masses attended. So I know that one would have to go to both an Immaculate Conception Mass as well as a Sunday Mass. I.e., if the Saturday 5pm Mass counted towards the Immaculate Conception obligation, there would still be the Sunday obligation.

However, after looking into the subject further, I think I have found my answer. In the case that the Immaculate Conception falls on a Saturday, as it does this year (I think it would be a similar case for a Monday, too), going to a Sunday Vigil Mass, even though it is still on Saturday, would not fulfill the obligation, since the Liturgy is ordered towards a Sunday Mass, not the Immaculate Conception. I think it is based solely on what the Liturgy is intended for.

We wouldn’t have this problem if it fell on, say, a Wednesday. In that case, a Wednesday evening Mass would work, since the Liturgy would still be for the Immaculate Conception. But this is (almost) never the case for a Saturday evening Mass - it is always a Sunday Vigil Mass, so trying to fulfill a Holy Day of Obligation on a Saturday evening Mass is not allowed, as far as I can tell.
 
bobballen_18 said:
However, after looking into the subject further, I think I have found my answer. In the case that the Immaculate Conception falls on a Saturday, as it does this year (I think it would be a similar case for a Monday, too), going to a Sunday Vigil Mass, even though it is still on Saturday, would not fulfill the obligation, since the Liturgy is ordered towards a Sunday Mass, not the Immaculate Conception. I think it is based solely on what the Liturgy is intended for.
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I do not believe this is the case. Canonist Ed Peters has posted in this thread that any Mass on Friday evening or Saturday can count for the IC. The form of Liturgy doesn’t matter.

God Bless
 
I don’t know if Pueblo Colorado is the only place in the U.S that it is not a Holy Day but I have been told that it is.

I think it is strange that this is so. I was trying to find a mass to go to. I can’t go to an early mass and there is no anticipatory mass.
 
adrift said:
I don’t know if Pueblo Colorado is the only place in the U.S that it is not a Holy Day but I have been told that it is.

I think it is strange that this is so. I was trying to find a mass to go to. I can’t go to an early mass and there is no anticipatory mass.
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From the December 2nd bulletin of “Shrine of St. Therese” which is in Peublo Colorado:
The Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed
Virgin Mary is Saturday, December 8th.
Masses will be on
Friday, December 7th, at 6:00 pm (anticipated) and
Saturday, December 8th, at 7:30 am.
Saturday evening Mass is for the 2nd Sunday of Advent
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My home parish is having a First Friday Mass tonight. They will not be using readings of Feast of the Immaculate Conception. Doesn’t count for the obligation, right?
 
Odd that they aren’t using the IC readings, but it still should count for the obligation. Canon law says you fulfill your obligation when you attend on the day of obligation or the evening before.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
My home parish is having a First Friday Mass tonight. They will not be using readings of Feast of the Immaculate Conception. Doesn’t count for the obligation, right?
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There should be a sticky thread with the title, “The readings don’t matter.”

(Don’t get me wrong. The choice of readings does matter.)

Perhaps the title should be, “The readings don’t affect whether or not the Mass meets your obligation.”
 
So it does count as the obligation, right? (BTW, the Mass starts at 5PM)
 
A bit worrying why they are not using the 1st Vespers of the solemnity. At the abbey I am affiliated with, they also have first Friday benediction, and today the chants for benediction are different because of the solemnity. But there’s still benediction and it will be 1st Vespers of the solemnity.

I’d love to attend but alas I have a choir rehearsal, we’re chanting Vespers for the 2nd Sunday of Advent on Sunday, followed by a 5 pm Mass.
 
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