Miami archbishop: raise the minimum wage [CC]

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Silvio_Dante said:
And I said the Pope agrees with what I said in another particular post. the one you quoted that didn’t refer to the 40 hour week…
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So why the arbitrary 40 hours/week? What is magical about that number? Why not 60 hrs/week?

Peace

Tim
 
Silvio_Dante said:
-]/-]

I live in Ireland and am just about happy with our minimum wage which equates to $12…
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Since you don’t live in America, how much information and knowledge do you have about the US that gives your opinion on a “living wage” any credibility?

I know for myself, I couldn’t begin to tell you what would be a decent wage in Ireland. I have no idea about the costs involved to live there.
 
Silvio_Dante said:
I have already. A weekly wage after 40 hours work that provides for the basic needs of the employee and his/her family. The hourly rate will vary from economy to economy…
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That is the opposite of specific. And what are the “basic needs” of an employee and his family? And what if he has no family, should he be paid lower?
 
Orogeny said:
I think that it should be at least $25/hr. That way we would have no poverty at all and everyone could work just 40 hours/week, own their own house and car and pay income taxes.😉

Peace

Tim
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Cheapskate! 😉

I vote for a minimum wage of $100/hr. That way everyone will be a millionaire and poverty is completely gone.
 
zz912 said:
Since you don’t live in America, how much information and knowledge do you have about the US that gives your opinion on a “living wage” any credibility?

I know for myself, I couldn’t begin to tell you what would be a decent wage in Ireland. I have no idea about the costs involved to live there.
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I came into this threat praising the good Archbishop and the working men and women of America, many of whom work three jobs to survive. There is no doubt that America has declared war on the workers, certain States like Wisconsin sin greater than others…
 
zz912 said:
That is the opposite of specific. And what are the “basic needs” of an employee and his family? And what if he has no family, should he be paid lower?
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The 40 hours work cover the cost of food, housing, household bills, gasoline and clothing for the family…
 
Silvio_Dante said:
I came into this threat praising the good Archbishop and the working men and women of America, many of whom work three jobs to survive. There is no doubt that America has declared war on the workers, certain States like Wisconsin sin greater than others…
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12.3% unemployment in Ireland…why so high?
 
shockerfan said:
12.3% unemployment in Ireland…why so high?
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Because our unregulated Bankers were allowed to play roulette on the Capitalist international markets, lost, and the People of Ireland were left with the debt to pay back.

Next…?
 
Cafeteria Catholicism really is strong in the American Right as is shown here with the flagrant disregard for the Social Justice doctrines of Mother Church…
 
Silvio_Dante said:
I have already. A weekly wage after 40 hours work that provides for the basic needs of the employee and his/her family. The hourly rate will vary from economy to economy…
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That’s a good definition of a “living wage” not a minimum wage. A minimum wage is not intended to be a living wage for someone who is only working one job and trying to support a family as the sole wage earner. A minimum wage is a starting pay. Many minimum wage jobs are intended for youth, retirees, and those looking to supplement income.

Two entirely different concepts.
 
Silvio_Dante said:
Because our unregulated Bankers were allowed to play roulette on the Capitalist international markets, lost, and the People of Ireland were left with the debt to pay back.

Next…?
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How about Ireland raise their minimum wage to $20 per hour? Won’t the extra money in the hands of the workers get spent and spur the economy? Problem solved.
 
Silvio_Dante said:
Cafeteria Catholicism really is strong in the American Right as is shown here with the flagrant disregard for the Social Justice doctrines of Mother Church…
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trite. I don’t know about the Irish government, but in the US, pretty much every time the government implements a solution, it causes many others. Look no further than Obamacare. The overall cost of insurance rates and deductibles is going up for most people, and businesses with just under 50 employees are avoiding getting to 50 to avoid the law. A few years ago the US passed a luxury tax on expensive boats. The result was a 70% drop in sales, and thousands of workers at boat factories lost their jobs.

Those here in the CAF that are debating with you are good people, and realize that their are consequences with the government does things like raise taxes, artificially raise labor costs, raise energy costs etc. There is a reason why with Obama being president the recovery is one of the slowest in history and the participation in the workforce is at a 35 year low.

First we need a healthy economy that will cause a growth in jobs, then wages will rise as employers compete for employees. Simply calling people who legitimately disagree with the best way to help the poor, “Cafeteria Catholics”, is ridiculous. Engage in debate, and avoid the “ad hominem” attacks.
 
Silvio_Dante said:
There are some who have disorders and are obsessed with work, others who work crazy hours to stay away from the nagging spouse. That’s sad. but whats tragic is those who are forced to become slaves to capitalism because the system has deemed they are not worthy of a decent wage…
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It has nothing to do with capitalism. Some of us work because we have a strong work ethic. I work as many hours as I can each week without sacrificing my family life. I do that so my wife can stay at home with out daughters. I started my own business and put numerous hours into it that I never see tangible return on, but I do it all because I believe I am serving God by working hard for my family.

Why is 40 hours some magical cap? You can’t decry capitalism and at the same time try and defend some nebulous 40 hour week which has been at the very heart of salaried, capitalist economies.
 
Silvio_Dante said:
Cafeteria Catholicism really is strong in the American Right as is shown here with the flagrant disregard for the Social Justice doctrines of Mother Church…
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Apparently hyperbole and laughable conclusions are very strong among the Irish, if I am to make the same flawed you leap in my opinions that you just did.

One can support a workable system for social justice without to subscribe to whatever policy you believe is best. Your sense of social justice is more more or less worthy than anyone else’s, especially since you fail to explain how you plan to cap the price of goods among those whose wages you want to raise the floor on.

It is easy to say nice sounding things and believe you have done a lot for your fellow man, but some times, God expects a little critical thinking from us. Hence, the laughably bad failure that has been the War on Poverty. Sounds nice, but has been an abysmal failure.
 
What’s the welfare package for a family of four now? Isn’t it about $60,000/year?

Maybe it would be cheaper and more “just” to raise the minimum wage to $20 and do away with welfare for the able-bodied? Surely they would have no trouble finding jobs paying $20/hour, right?

I’m half joking here, but one of the things that always sticks in my mind when people simultaneously defend a generous welfare state and insist on a "living wage’ (which is different for a teenage kid saving up to buy a car and a man trying to support a family) is that welfare pays more, in general, than anybody’s proposed “minimum wage” would. What person with a family is going to abandon, say, $60,000 in welfare benefits for even a $15.00/hour job? Is there any reality to any of this, or are we just being ideological?

Another thing that bothers me is that a “living wage” (enough to support a family) for the jobs I did growing up would have absolutely precluded me from having a job at all. My labor wasn’t worth that kind of money, but I was glad to get what I did. My parents paid exactly zero for my college education because they didn’t have to. Better that than a purely theoretical right to earn $40,000 or more in a job nobody would give me.
 
shockerfan said:
How about Ireland raise their minimum wage to $20 per hour? Won’t the extra money in the hands of the workers get spent and spur the economy? Problem solved.
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You asked about our decreasing unemployment rate on the hope I’d have to blame our humane minimum wage. Sorry to disappoint you.

It could go to $14 an hour but 20 is not necessary…
 
shockerfan said:
trite. I don’t know about the Irish government, but in the US, pretty much every time the government implements a solution, it causes many others. Look no further than Obamacare. The overall cost of insurance rates and deductibles is going up for most people, and businesses with just under 50 employees are avoiding getting to 50 to avoid the law. A few years ago the US passed a luxury tax on expensive boats. The result was a 70% drop in sales, and thousands of workers at boat factories lost their jobs.

Those here in the CAF that are debating with you are good people, and realize that their are consequences with the government does things like raise taxes, artificially raise labor costs, raise energy costs etc. There is a reason why with Obama being president the recovery is one of the slowest in history and the participation in the workforce is at a 35 year low.

First we need a healthy economy that will cause a growth in jobs, then wages will rise as employers compete for employees. Simply calling people who legitimately disagree with the best way to help the poor, “Cafeteria Catholics”, is ridiculous. Engage in debate, and avoid the “ad hominem” attacks.
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You put the Market and its poisonous effects ahead of what the Church and the Pope teaches. That’s Cafeteria Catholicism. Your choice…
 
HappyCatholic01 said:
It has nothing to do with capitalism. Some of us work because we have a strong work ethic. I work as many hours as I can each week without sacrificing my family life. I do that so my wife can stay at home with out daughters. I started my own business and put numerous hours into it that I never see tangible return on, but I do it all because I believe I am serving God by working hard for my family.

Why is 40 hours some magical cap? You can’t decry capitalism and at the same time try and defend some nebulous 40 hour week which has been at the very heart of salaried, capitalist economies.
Click to expand...
People who choose to distance themselves from their family and use the excuse of work are serving no one, in a positive manner. Are you one of those? Only you can answer…
 
Silvio_Dante said:
People who choose to distance themselves from their family and use the excuse of work are serving no one, in a positive manner. Are you one of those? Only you can answer…
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My job is to care and provide for my family, which requires of a balance of earning enough so that I can provide for my children’s education while being home with them as much as I can. In short, we should strive as men to emulate St. Joseph.

People who choose not to work and use the excuse of wanting to be near their family are serving no one, in a positive manner.

Are you one of those?
 
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