Mich. governor signs 48-month welfare limit

[SamH]

How are hurricanes and tornadoes and drought part of ideology? What can government do about these natural phenomena that get in the way of efficient allocation of resources?

Government regulation and programs encourage people to live in flood prone areas of the coasts (how many billions went to New Orleans after it was flooded just so it can happen again?). Government regulation and programs built the levy system on the rivers that caused massive flooding in the upper midwest this year.

It’s not all natural.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I guess you don’t know history or current events at all. Please pick up a newspaper and read it once in the while.

Thank you for your gratuitous insult. I will disregard what you posted.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Government regulation and programs encourage people to live in flood prone areas of the coasts (how many billions went to New Orleans after it was flooded just so it can happen again?). Government regulation and programs built the levy system on the rivers that caused massive flooding in the upper midwest this year.

It’s not all natural.

I, for one, will disregard what you post.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I guess you don’t know history or current events at all. Governments cause wars. Governments control crop planting, and yes they deny people food. Please pick up a newspaper and read it once in the while.

North Korea is a good example.

 

[qui_est_ce]

How are hurricanes and tornadoes and drought part of ideology? What can government do about these natural phenomena that get in the way of efficient allocation of resources?

Go back to Genesis. What happened when there was a drought in the land of Palestine? The Israelites moved to Egypt.

There is no reason for a drought or a hurricane to cause hunger. There is plenty of food available to supplement weather.

Read my links. Hunger in Africa is not caused by lack of food, it’s caused by corrupt governments. IOW, government that is in control of everything.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

North Korea is a good example.

And, their (name removed by moderator)ut into natural phenomena that can cause the same problems? My point is this: it’s NEVER one thing that causes poverty, but a combination of factors.

 

[JMJSHJ]

Personal attacks are forbidden on the Forum: “your uninformed opinions,” “who made you God,” “you…are beyond contempt and sinful.”

This is a Catholic Forum, and though anyone can post here, you ought to remember that the audience is primarily one of Catholics, who are expected to treat one another with respect. If you prefer to use personal attacks, there are Forums that welcome such direct personal confrontations.

What about ad hominen attacks when the poster that I was addressing said that all seniors were this? You disappoint me greatly Rich by not going correcting what stinkcat was posting. Unless of course you don’t believe in social security?

Part of Catholicism is instructing the ignorant and admonishing the sinners. Its part of the Spiritual works of mercy. There is also righteousness indignation.

 

[qui_est_ce]

And, their (name removed by moderator)ut into natural phenomena that can cause the same problems? My point is this: it’s NEVER one thing that causes poverty, but a combination of factors.

Rich, it’s not natural phenomena that cause problems. Natural phenomena can be overcome. North Korea refuses aid.
Somalia refuses aid.

THAT’S the PROBLEM!

We have droughts here in the US, usually they are seasonal. They don’t make or break our country. We don’t have millions of people starving in refugee camps every time there’s a monsoon or a drought.

In Africa, natural disasters exasperate existing problems (poor land management and other government policies) until they become a permanent state of affairs.

 

[SamH]

North Korea is a good example.

Its a bit closer to home than that. How many millions of acres of farm land were flooded this year in the US due to the Army Corps (Corpse for you Obama types) levy system?

How many thousands of people around the world have died of malaria because our government decided that thin egg shells on some wild birds was not acceptable?

Just a few off the top of my head.

 

[qui_est_ce]

What about ad hominen attacks when the poster that I was addressing said that all seniors were this? You disappoint me greatly Rich by not going correcting what stinkcat was posting. Unless of course you don’t believe in social security?

Part of Catholicism is instructing the ignorant and admonishing the sinners. Its part of the Spiritual works of mercy. There is also righteousness indignation.

Rich was personally attacked by the other poster and not by Sinkcat. I’ve never seen him make and ad hominem. I may not agree with a lot of Rich’s opinions, but he is an informed poster.

 

[SamH]

Rich was personally attacked by the other poster and not by Sinkcat. I’ve never seen him make and ad hominem. I may not agree with a lot of Rich’s opinions, but he is an informed poster.

I guess you haven’t read the 9-11 10 years after thread.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Rich, it’s not natural phenomena that cause problems. Natural phenomena can be overcome. North Korea refuses aid.
Somalia refuses aid.

THAT’S the PROBLEM!

We have droughts here in the US, usually they are seasonal. They don’t make or break our country. We don’t have millions of people starving in refugee camps every time there’s a monsoon or a drought.

In Africa, natural disasters exasperate existing problems (poor land management and other government policies) until they become a permanent state of affairs.

You give two basketcase countries as examples. Sure, we can overcome drought because we are so huge - though Texas cattlemen might take issue with you - and we don’t have Americans starving in camps, but how does Somalia overcome natural disasters or even N. Korea, neither of which is a large country?

The government of a country can be one of the factors that contribute to poverty, but it is never the sole factor - IMO anyway.

 

[JMJSHJ]

When you take from people who work, and give to people who don’t work that is the textbook definition of a welfare program. Many people who receive Temporary Assistance to Needy Families have paid various taxes in their lifetimes, does the payment of taxes make something not a welfare program?

To my understanding that anyone receiving true welfare, they never have to pay it back. Now seniors today who are on social security HAVE contributed to towards it. So no its not textbook welfare.

If people are able to work, but choose not to work because they get government money is not laziness? So according to your theory we all should be perfectly free to stop working and give us money if we can convince the government to give it to us.

Who says people are able to work at the level of younger people? They aren’t getting government money, they are getting back what they contributed over many years of working. You totally misunderstand what I am saying although I don’t know why, its not hard to understand.

As to your comment on who am I to play God and tell people what to do with their time and money. You are right, if someone wants to save throughout their adult life and not work when they reach a certain age, there is nothing wrong with that. But to expect me to pay thousands of dollars in taxes so that some able bodied person can play golf instead of working is ridiculous. What people do with their own money is their business, when they are spending my money it becomes my business.

Again you have failed to prove that they are spending YOUR money. Have you conducted a government audit of all money and how it gets all allocated?

The question is: Are most 62 -70 year olds able to work? If they are and they choose not to, then that is clearly laziness. To demand that people like me continue to work and pay for their health care and SS is greedy. For example, seniors today did not pay taxes for Medicare part D, so they have no way to claim that they are entitled it. Yet try and cut it and watch them scream. That my friend is greed.

The question is where do ANY of us decide when a person should stop to work. If its not costing you anything then its really none of your business. As for medicare part D how do you know that what money that they are getting back from having contributed to it is not paying for medicare?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Its a bit closer to home than that. How many millions of acres of farm land were flooded this year in the US due to the Army Corps (Corpse for you Obama types) levy system?

How many thousands of people around the world have died of malaria because our government decided that thin egg shells on some wild birds was not acceptable?

Just a few off the top of my head.

My understanding of malaria is that mosquitoes became resistant to it.

OK, I just looked it up. There is no mention of insect resistance with proper use.

Seriously? Rachel Carson?

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

What about ad hominen attacks when the poster that I was addressing said that all seniors were this? You disappoint me greatly Rich by not going correcting what stinkcat was posting. Unless of course you don’t believe in social security?

Part of Catholicism is instructing the ignorant and admonishing the sinners. Its part of the Spiritual works of mercy. There is also righteousness indignation.

Within the rules of the Forum, however.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I guess you haven’t read the 9-11 10 years after thread.

No.

 

[JMJSHJ]

Rich was personally attacked by the other poster and not by Sinkcat. I’ve never seen him make and ad hominem. I may not agree with a lot of Rich’s opinions, but he is an informed poster.

Let me clarify as I think there is some confusion here. Stinkcat made an adhominem. I called stinkcat out on that. Rich objected to my language. I replied back to Rich. Rich is a very informed poster but I still stand by what I said to stinkcat.

 

[buffalo]

My understanding of malaria is that mosquitoes became resistant to it.

OK, I just looked it up. There is no mention of insect resistance with proper use.

Seriously? Rachel Carson?

Malaria - when one lives in the highlands it is not a problem. When they want to live in the wetlands it is.

 

[qui_est_ce]

You give two basketcase countries as examples. Sure, we can overcome drought because we are so huge - though Texas cattlemen might take issue with you - and we don’t have Americans starving in camps, but how does Somalia overcome natural disasters or even N. Korea, neither of which is a large country?

The government of a country can be one of the factors that contribute to poverty, but it is never the sole factor - IMO anyway.

Rich, I told you earlier that I have been interested in this area since I was a teen. I gave you two easy examples. You’re just making up excuses now.

There are ships with cargo WAITING to go into these ports. Somalia says Christians are indoctrinating their people and distributing drugs. I have personal friends that go to Africa to help them with water management and irrigation. My parents had diplomat friends that I used to listen to talk into the night.

Corrupt governments keep out aid. Look what’s happening in Iraq. Our engineers, who are trying to help the Iraqi’s build their infrastructure are being blown up. It’s ridiculous.

I’m not trying to get into the politics of why we’re there at this point. I’m just saying help is at the ready, and there is no need for any country to lack aid in preventing hunger.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I’m just saying help is at the ready, and there is no need for any country to lack aid in preventing hunger.

You’ve turned the conversation to aid, Christine. And, I agree with you that whether poverty is due to bad government or natural disaster, if there’s someone in the wings with a generous heart and an open purse, then all can be right with the world. But, country by country individually, it’s not always the government that stands as the only factor in its famine or poverty.