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Maxirad
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How can the couple in question be helped in this case?
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CTBcin
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I remember hearing about this case when it came out, and it’s really hard to make a judgement about the priest’s homily without seeing what he actually said.
It’s certainly possible that he said something insensitive, but we don’t know the gravity of it. When you have a family grieving over a tragic death, a priest has to be very careful what he says given the context. He could have said something that seemed innocuous to him, but enraged the family due to the circumstances of what had happened.
The family was upset that nobody was allowed to eulogize him, although eulogies really aren’t a Catholic thing (but if the priest originally agreed to it, I do think he should have kept his word). And the family said they wanted the funeral to celebrate their son’s life, showing they don’t fully understand the point of Catholic funerals.
I think they do have a right to be upset, if the priest was as insensitive as they said. I also feel for the priest, as one wrong move or poorly thought out homily can lead to serious consequences. But I think suing is a bit much. They also want him removed from his post and removed from ministry altogether. That seems like a huge overreaction. Again, I’d like to see a copy of the homily before I make any kind of judgement. And to date, I haven’t seen a text of the homily anywhere.
It’s certainly possible that he said something insensitive, but we don’t know the gravity of it. When you have a family grieving over a tragic death, a priest has to be very careful what he says given the context. He could have said something that seemed innocuous to him, but enraged the family due to the circumstances of what had happened.
The family was upset that nobody was allowed to eulogize him, although eulogies really aren’t a Catholic thing (but if the priest originally agreed to it, I do think he should have kept his word). And the family said they wanted the funeral to celebrate their son’s life, showing they don’t fully understand the point of Catholic funerals.
I think they do have a right to be upset, if the priest was as insensitive as they said. I also feel for the priest, as one wrong move or poorly thought out homily can lead to serious consequences. But I think suing is a bit much. They also want him removed from his post and removed from ministry altogether. That seems like a huge overreaction. Again, I’d like to see a copy of the homily before I make any kind of judgement. And to date, I haven’t seen a text of the homily anywhere.
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LilyM
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It doesn’t appear that this particular priest makes a habit of offensive homilies or behaviour, or that there have been other complaints about him, and so this may have been a one-off.
If that is the case it seems an apology and.the other action taken were appropriate and removal may be excessive
It seems odd that he would apparenrly agree to doing things as the family requested, take notes about what they wanted, then do a complete about face in the moment.
While I agree funerals aren’t really supposed to be a celebration of a person’s life, they are definitely not supposed to be an occasion for.dwellibg on the persons sins or speculating that they may be damned for them
If that is the case it seems an apology and.the other action taken were appropriate and removal may be excessive
It seems odd that he would apparenrly agree to doing things as the family requested, take notes about what they wanted, then do a complete about face in the moment.
While I agree funerals aren’t really supposed to be a celebration of a person’s life, they are definitely not supposed to be an occasion for.dwellibg on the persons sins or speculating that they may be damned for them
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Cor_ad_Cor
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If you search, I’m pretty sure we discussed this here at length when it happened (which was quite some time ago).
We did discuss this on CAF several months ago:
Parents say priest told mourners that son may be kept out of heaven over suicide: report Catholic News
Shining a light on truth vs. comforting the grieving? Funeral homily in cases of suicide Apologetics
There is absolutely nothing theologically wrong with the sermon, but considering the American cultural mindset in the year 2019 — not to mention the grief of the parents, friends, and loved ones — it was very obtuse and tone-deaf. Instead of repeating the word “suicide” six times — a horribly ugly word regardless of the culture — the priest could have begun his sermon by saying:
“We all know what happened.”
And then continue to speak of God’s love and mercy.
Even as much of an “iron rod Catholic” as I come across as being sometimes, I can entirely see how this sermon was received as being offensive.
and
And this is the priest’s sermon:
There is absolutely nothing theologically wrong with the sermon, but considering the American cultural mindset in the year 2019 — not to mention the grief of the parents, friends, and loved ones — it was very obtuse and tone-deaf. Instead of repeating the word “suicide” six times — a horribly ugly word regardless of the culture — the priest could have begun his sermon by saying:
“We all know what happened.”
And then continue to speak of God’s love and mercy.
Even as much of an “iron rod Catholic” as I come across as being sometimes, I can entirely see how this sermon was received as being offensive.
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Victoria33
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https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...nts-sue-over-priest-who-criticized-sons-death
This is a new wrinkle to the story.
So actually, this story did just resurface.
She is actually suing the Archdiocese.
This is a new wrinkle to the story.
So actually, this story did just resurface.
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Weserthy
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Yeah this was big news awhile ago, but these people are taking it way too far. I think this lawsuit will probably be thrown out. It’s hard to feel sympathy for them now as this move makes it look like they’re trying to make a quick buck to compensate for their son’s death. They were trying to get the priest fired and defrocked back when this story first broke and they just can’t seem to let it go. I know it must be hard to lose a son like that but that doesn’t mean you have the right to trash the priest’s reputation in the national media because he gave an orthodox sermon that offended you. I can see how they might have taken it badly but that’s just par for the course these days when few Catholics actually know anything about doctrine and Catholic funeral liturgies. The Archdiocese needs to stand their ground here and fight this or it’s going to set a bad precedent if they’re going give out settlement money every time someone complains about a homily.
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VanitasVanitatum
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Let’s just forget them already. It does no good to bring back an old controversy.
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FiveLinden
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The sermon is technically an extremely good piece of writing. It will have had an impact much greater than most funeral sermons. Again, technically, what is wrong with it from the point of view of communications is the repetition of the word ‘suicide’. Each time it was said, pain was induced. Each time the issue of possible loss of salvation was said, pain was induced. Although the possibility of salvation was repeated, and reasons for optimism given, they do not have the emotional impact of the negative messages in a context of a funeral. As a (non-religious) celebrant of funerals I have had families concerned bout the used of the word ‘dead’. People in grief are different and receive messages differently. I feel the priest has been let down in his training and been let loose with a weapon in his words he has not yet learned to control.
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CTBcin
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Thanks for posting a copy of the homily. I didn’t see anything overly offensive there. Much of the homily was focused on God’s mercy and forgiveness. But if I were giving the homily, I would have dwelt a little less on the suicide aspect, especially given the grief the family was going through. I can understand why the family felt a little hurt by it.
That said, while I understand the grieving of the family, after reading the whole thing, I think it is completely over the top that they’re suing and demanding the priest be laicized!
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CTBcin
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I couldn’t have said it better myself!
It’s not a laicizing offense. At its very worst, I think it was a case of misguided zeal, obtuseness, and possibly a bit of cross-cultural incompetence. A manifestation of sincere regret and some re-training, coupled with some time away from preaching funerals, is all that is needed here.
Several years ago I attended a TLM and the visiting priest spoke on the necessity of Our Lord being crucified for our redemption. He quoted some mystic as saying if nobody else had been willing or able to crucify Our Lord, the Blessed Mother would have done it herself! And then he just stood there at the pulpit with this large, satisfied smile across his face. You couldn’t appreciate the optics of this unless you’d actually been there, but I found the smile more offensive than the grotesque verbal imagery. Utterly repulsive. Even if this were hypothetically true, it’s just that — a hypothetical — and not a thought I want to have in my head. And nothing to smile about.
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InThePew
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This.
Having read the himily, he lost them at the line: “taking your own life is against God who made us and against everyone who loves us.” As far as mentioning suicide goes, I’m not sure that it would have been that much of an issue (depending of course ow the family’s wishes) - sometimes it can actually be helpful to acknowledge the elephant in the room. When it comes to funerals, the reality is whatever the family wants they pretty much can have. They are, after all, grieving the loss of their loved one and I’d far rather play fast and loose with the rubrics in the Order of Christian Funerals then alienate grieving family from the Church. So, officially there no place for eulogies in the Catholic tradition; unofficially I’ll find a way. In the words of Cardinal Dolan - we can bring them or we can drive them away; done right, funerals can be an opportunity for evangelisation, done wrongly they can drive a wedge between a family and the Church which will take years to overcome.
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Frankie65
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He is a priest, fivelinden. One hundred or probably even 60 years ago, possibly even fewer, congregants would have wept but they would not have been in opposition to anything he said (except if they happened to be an atheist who had somehow wandered into a Catholic funeral).
This is a case of trying to force the church to submit to the feelings of the world.
Where the church has the last word on these matters. The church of 1,960 years not necessarily the one of the last 59 years.
Disgraceful how priest was let down by his superiors, not defended. But what’s new.
This is a case of trying to force the church to submit to the feelings of the world.
Where the church has the last word on these matters. The church of 1,960 years not necessarily the one of the last 59 years.
Disgraceful how priest was let down by his superiors, not defended. But what’s new.
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Frankie65
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A properly catechised family would not have taken offence. They would have taken comfort.
And they would not be suing the priest (which is what I read they are doing)
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
I would hate to be the priest in this situation.
OTOH, grieving family
OTOH, you don’t want to run the risk of over-romanticizing the boy’s story, especially in a teen culture where suicide, depression and anxiety are on the rise
And against the backdrop of a push for euthanasia anyway, and some people (even on this forum) have posited that depression is a terminal illness.
I personally wouldn’t have made the connection in the homily between sin and suicide, but the whole situation is a crap storm
OTOH, grieving family
OTOH, you don’t want to run the risk of over-romanticizing the boy’s story, especially in a teen culture where suicide, depression and anxiety are on the rise
And against the backdrop of a push for euthanasia anyway, and some people (even on this forum) have posited that depression is a terminal illness.
I personally wouldn’t have made the connection in the homily between sin and suicide, but the whole situation is a crap storm
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BartholomewB
Guest
Tell that to the Hullibargers. The reason why it’s in the news again now is that just three days ago, eleven months after the offending funeral mass, they filed a lawsuit against the archdiocese of Detroit.
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Wesrock
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I just read the homily and am baffled at the calls for defrocking and suing. I can only believe they are moved by intense grief over the loss of their child.
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BartholomewB
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According to the AP report, when the Hullibargers met with Fr. LaCuesta to request him to deliver the funeral homily, they deliberately withheld from him the information that the deceased had committed suicide. At some moment after that meeting, but before the funeral, he evidently found out the parents had deceived him as to the nature of their son’s death. Was he, perhaps, peeved and resentful at having been made a fool of? That would be an understandable reaction.
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...nts-sue-over-priest-who-criticized-sons-death
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...nts-sue-over-priest-who-criticized-sons-death
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EXdrinker
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This was a great homily and I would have thanked him after the mass if it had been my son’s funeral.
I feel bad for the parents but they are not victims here.
I feel bad for the parents but they are not victims here.
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