Miracles in other religions

[phantasm]

All this said from not being educated in the faith. Do you read? Because if you truly did read the bible as you say, you’d know why things happen in this world. Do you know any history of the church or are you just plain ignorant of it all?
Are you comparing Honda to our Lord? Good grief… If you want to learn something here at the forums, you need to stop being so rude and condescending. After all, it is a Catholic forum.

I see that you haven’t offered any defense of your faith, except to say that I’m rude, condescending and ignorant.

I know, the questions that I raise are tough, but please, try to address the content of my posts, instead of completely ignoring said content.

Comparing Honda to the Lord, is called an analogy. The Bible is filled with analogies, they are not to be taken literally, but something is to be learned from the story.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I see that you haven’t offered any defense of your faith, except to say that I’m rude, condescending and ignorant.

I know, the questions that I raise are tough, but please, try to address the content of my posts, instead of completely ignoring said content.

Comparing Honda to the Lord, is called an analogy. The Bible is filled with analogies, they are not to be taken literally, but something is to be learned from the story.

Actually, your questions are rather easy. It is your lack of knowledge that I am mortified with. I will not be baited by you. Good luck.

 

[fishisgood]

Blame God, he created the angel Lucifer, knowing full well he would rebel. Then God unleashed Satan upon the earth to prey upon his vulnerable children. God could have stuck Satan on some planet 50000 light years away, but nooooooooooo, he had to do it here.

Yes, if God is real, blame God or the Gods. ( whatever you believe)

Anyway, back on topic. There are no such thing as miracles, but if you want to believe that God helped you find a great parking spot, then go right ahead.

I too have shared your sentiments at times in my life… although i have been more agnostic than athiest as i have never had enough pride to say i completely understand wether God exests or not… I will say the the most pertinent aspect to my reversion was two things… I believe love is somthing that shows that God is in us and is from God secondly Phantasm I think both of us have been at times discusted with human interpritation of God, I too get smug when I hear people try to convince me the earth is 10000 years old and other infintile aspects of human thought (like God hates Gays or somthing like that). God is not completly understandible and ive excepted that, we have no true concept of reality because our reality can change. I have let go of trying to make sense of everything and I work on being a better me and asking God for strength in faith and it has worked for me (even when I asked with doubt in my heart). I say this having been to war as a semi agnostic and comming out angry with God then comming to believe. It also dawned on me that my love for my children must be what the Gospel is talking about when describing how God loves us but even infinatly more intense… blasting you for your doubt is wrong because I believe most have doubted I think you to will some day come to believe in God untill then keep searching for truth and realize that we can only focus on earthly things… we cant see with complete clarity.

 

[DJgang]

I too have shared your sentiments at times in my life… although i have been more agnostic than athiest as i have never had enough pride to say i completely understand wether God exests or not… I will say the the most pertinent aspect to my reversion was two things… I believe love is somthing that shows that God is in us and is from God secondly Phantasm I think both of us have been at times discusted with human interpritation of God, I too get smug when I hear people try to convince me the earth is 10000 years old and other infintile aspects of human thought (like God hates Gays or somthing like that). God is not completly understandible and ive excepted that, we have no true concept of reality because our reality can change. I have let go of trying to make sense of everything and I work on being a better me and asking God for strength in faith and it has worked for me (even when I asked with doubt in my heart). I say this having been to war as a semi agnostic and comming out angry with God then comming to believe. It also dawned on me that my love for my children must be what the Gospel is talking about when describing how God loves us but even infinatly more intense… blasting you for your doubt is wrong because I believe most have doubted I think you to will some day come to believe in God untill then keep searching for truth and realize that we can only focus on earthly things… we cant see with complete clarity.

good post.

 

[deb1]

Pentecostals claim miracles all the time. Many other modern evangelical Protestants also report miracles, though in Protestantism as a whole (probably in our culture as a whole) there’s a very fuzzy line between miracles and “special providences.” Historically Protestants have not claimed that miracles still, but this changed for many Protestants in the 19th century.

And certainly you have miraculous claims in Hinduism and other non-Christian religions.

Edwin

If I am not mistaken, the Catholic Church is pretty rigorous about which events they claim as authentic miracles. Do you know what criteria other faiths use in differentiating between a true miracle and a false one?

Going back to the original question, I think that Buddhists have similar claims about their holy men and women as Catholic do their own saints. If I am not mistaken some Buddhists are supposed to levitate and not decay after death.

 

[deb1]

I too have shared your sentiments at times in my life… although i have been more agnostic than athiest as i have never had enough pride to say i completely understand wether God exests or not… I will say the the most pertinent aspect to my reversion was two things… I believe love is somthing that shows that God is in us and is from God secondly Phantasm I think both of us have been at times discusted with human interpritation of God, I too get smug when I hear people try to convince me the earth is 10000 years old and other infintile aspects of human thought (like God hates Gays or somthing like that). God is not completly understandible and ive excepted that, we have no true concept of reality because our reality can change. I have let go of trying to make sense of everything and I work on being a better me and asking God for strength in faith and it has worked for me (even when I asked with doubt in my heart). I say this having been to war as a semi agnostic and comming out angry with God then comming to believe. It also dawned on me that my love for my children must be what the Gospel is talking about when describing how God loves us but even infinatly more intense… blasting you for your doubt is wrong because I believe most have doubted I think you to will some day come to believe in God untill then keep searching for truth and realize that we can only focus on earthly things… we cant see with complete clarity.

I could have written this. I, too, went through a period of agnotism. Much of what Phantasm has written could have been written word for word by my younger self. LIke you, I would advise everyone to be patient with the poster. I’ve known what it is like to struggle with doubt.

 

[deb1]

Sad that you need a God to tell you that human life is above that of a dog.

No, I was just following your logic to its conclusion.

I started to type out a longer response but I don’t want to derail the thread. Sorry.

 

[phantasm]

Well, now you say Jesus Christ. The name you will cry out at your death bed.

If I had been born in India, I’d cry out for Vishnu.

What’s your point?

That as a youngster my Catholic indoctrination was so intense, that upon my death bed, out of fear of eternal damnation, I will cry out for this God?

If that does happen, and my knee jerks out of unadulterated fear, I just hope that I cry out to the right brand of God.

Incorruptibles will all one day turn to dust. Not much of a miracle.

Lourdes has had less than 70 confirmed miracles, and how many of the millions have gone through on their pilgrimages looking for healing through faith? Those numbers are what most people would call statistical certainty.

How many regenerated limbs?
How many people were cured from down syndrome?
How many people were cured from cerebral palsy?

Ad infinitum…

If you had that many people show up in a parking lot and drink the water from the puddles for 150 years, you’d also be able to get 70 confirmed miracles, just through sheer statistical probability, that yes, sometimes people just get better.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

If I had been born in India, I’d cry out for Vishnu.

What’s your point?

That as a youngster my Catholic indoctrination was so intense, that upon my death bed, out of fear of eternal damnation, I will cry out for this God?

If that does happen, and my knee jerks out of unadulterated fear, I just hope that I cry out to the right brand of God.

Incorruptibles will all one day turn to dust. Not much of a miracle.

Lourdes has had less than 70 confirmed miracles, and how many hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions have gone through there looking for healing through faith? Those numbers are what most people would call statistical certainty.

How many regenerated limbs?
How many people were cured from down syndrome?
How many people were cured from cerebral palsy? None

If you had that many people show up in a parking lot and drink the water of the puddles for 150 years, you’d also be able to get 70 confirmed miracles, just through sheer statistical probability, that yes, sometimes people just get better.

My friend, there has been one miracle specifically at Lourdes in which a woman arrived in a coma. She was in a coma for 3 months with no hope for her. She walked out I repeat WALKED OUT of the sanctuary after she was submerged in the Holy Waters of Lourdes. God heals you if it is in His Will. He does and He doesn’t. That’s how it is. Do not question God and why He does the things He does. That is why we have **FAITH. **Your problem is you have no faith, therefore everything bad and evil and unexplainable to you will appear this way. Get it?

 

[phantasm]

My friend, there has been one miracle specifically at Lourdes in which a woman arrived in a coma. She was in a coma for 3 months with no hope for her. She walked out I repeat WALKED OUT of the sanctuary after she was submerged in the Holy Waters of Lourdes. God heals you if it is in His Will. He does and He doesn’t. That’s how it is. Do not question God and why He does the things He does. That is why we have **FAITH. **Your problem is you have no faith, therefore everything bad and evil and unexplainable to you will appear this way. Get it?

You take 80,000 pilgrims a year, for 150 years and tell them that my lucky quarter was smelted by God and has miraculous properties, I guarantee that at least one woman will instantly wake up from her coma upon touching my magic quater.

I can watch any faith healing Christian TV program and watch miraculous cures. You ever seen Benny Hinn?

Now that man is a healer, he can heal whole crowds of people at one time!

It’s all so amazing, never question the Lord and his good works. Just accept the divine healers power and praise the Lord.

Never question the work of the Lord!!!

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

You take 80,000 pilgrims a year, for 150 years and tell them that my lucky quarter was smelted by God and has miraculous properties, I guarantee that at least one woman will instantly wake up from her coma upon touching my magic quater.

I can watch any faith healing Christian TV program and watch miraculous cures. You ever seen Benny Hinn?

Now that man is a healer, he can heal whole crowds of people at one time!

It’s all so amazing, never question the Lord and his good works. Just accept the divine healers power and praise the Lord.

Never question the work of the Lord!!!

I must say, your analogies are terrible. And you believe Benny Hinn the crook of all crooks? Lord have mercy…

 

[Snerticus]

All I can say is … WOW.

Ignorance of God is truly amazing sometimes. But I see more than ignorance here. I see downright anger at a deity that someone doesn’t even think exists. Any condradiction to that?

 

[phantasm]

I must say, your analogies are terrible. And you believe Benny Hinn the crook of all crooks? Lord have mercy…

Good grief, it wasn’t an analogy!

With regards to Benny Hinn, I’m just following your advice;

"Do not question God and why He does the things He does"

What’s amazing to me, is that you believe in the divine miracles of Lourdes, and likely every other Catholic miracle.

Yet if these miracles come from outside of your faith, such as in the case of Mr Hinn, the miracles are frauds!

What you fail to understand, is that your precious miracles are just as ludicrous to me, as Benny Hinn is to you.

 

[phantasm]

All I can say is … WOW.

Ignorance of God is truly amazing sometimes. But I see more than ignorance here. I see downright anger at a deity that someone doesn’t even think exists. Any condradiction to that?

You mistake my anger at a bronze aged desert God, over frustration at people who are willing to believe in supernatural miracles and all with the faintest bit of evidence.

The poster above is a prime example, his faiths miracles are real, but that Protestant preacher, why he`s just a fraud!

 

[deb1]

You mistake my anger at a bronze aged desert God, over frustration at people who are willing to believe in supernatural miracles and all with the faintest bit of evidence.

The poster above is a prime example, his faiths miracles are real, but that Protestant preacher, why he`s just a fraud!

The Catholic Church has a process in which it verify the authenticity of miracles and visions. That is why some Marian visions are seen as false.

As for Benny Hill, I do not think that he had to endure any type of authentication process. Also, I am pretty certain that there has been some negative media reports about his ministry. But as, I pay him little attention, I can not say for certain if this is true.

Being Protestant is not why many on this site are discounting him.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

As far as my son I certainly appreciate your prayers and agree that our sharing of miracles can only strengthen our faith. For me personally something like Fatima or Lourdes has no impact on my faith as these types of phenomena can certainly be the work of an evil spirit. Fatima claimed that the path to GOD was through her now which is a complete contradiction of scripture.

PEACE

First of all, the Catholic Church existed before scripture existed. That is a historical fact. Second of all, it dosent contradict scripture at all. If Jesus came to us THROUGH the Holy and Blessed Virgin Mary, it is only logical sense that we go to Jesus through Mary as well. We dont need scripture to spell everything out for us. We can think outside the Bible…I mean the first Christians from the 1st to the 3rd century did Lourdes has actually a number of miracoulous healings and the funny thing about it is that they never really expected miracles to occure as it did. They just accepted them and examined them. Of course the numbers of miracles were growing too high they couldn`t even keep trak anymore so I think they have 63 recorded miracles that are unexplainable. But of course everything that happens in the Catholic Church is satins work in the eyes of protestants who hate the early Christians, just like how the scribes claimed Jesus was doing the devils work when He was performing miracles.

Lanciono is also amazing I mean…it is unexplained by doctors and scientists. It really proves that the flesh of Jesus Christ is truly present with us in the Holy Eucharist. The miracle is very interesting, I hope I one day can visit Italy and see the Holy Emanual in another light.

God Bless.

 

[cathopologist]

You mistake my anger at a bronze aged desert God, over frustration at people who are willing to believe in supernatural miracles and all with the faintest bit of evidence.

The poster above is a prime example, his faiths miracles are real, but that Protestant preacher, why he`s just a fraud!

The point is, you are a frustrated person simply because you desist the idea that people submit themselves to a Higher Power for comfort and security. I was myself, once an Atheist and then an Agnostic before finally submitting myself to my Lord. I understand where you are coming from and i understand the frustration - about the whole “mambo-jumbo God fearing folks who believe in something that isn’t there”. But at least i knew when to draw the line and to respect the people who insisted on the existence of God.

Friends, it is pointless to reason with an Atheist. The only tool we have is the rosary and our prayers for him/her. We should also respect phantasm’s right to critique religion as he sees fit - so long as he doesn’t go overboard. Afterall, i’m sure one of his intentions being here isn’t to “convert” us into Atheists.

 

[phantasm]

I was myself, once an Atheist and then an Agnostic before finally submitting myself to my Lord. .

How did you decide which God to submit yourself to?

Geography of where you were born and where you were living at the time of your conversion likely played a vital role.

If not geography, then solely upon the happenstance of being told about the Christian brand of religion being true, and all of the others, false.

I suspect if you had been born in India, you would be on the website **forums.Hindu.com **and heaping praise upon Vishnu and the many Hindu miracles.

 

[cathopologist]

How did you decide which God to submit yourself to?

Geography of where you were born and where you were living at the time of your conversion likely played a vital role.

I suspect if you had been born in India, you would be on the website **forums.Hindu.com **and heaping praise upon Vishnu and the many Hindu miracles.

Do you really want to know?

 

[cathopologist]

How did you decide which God to submit yourself to?

I was born a Brahmin - studied in a Presbyterian missionary school (both primary and secondary) and remained a Brahmin - although by the time of my O Levels (roughly at 17 years old) i was already a non-practising Brahmin and an Atheist by then.

Geography of where you were born and where you were living at the time of your conversion likely played a vital role.

Born and raised in Singapore of Brahmin parents originally from Uttar Pradesh, India. Prior to my conversion, i was already through the “angry stage” (Atheist) and was then an Agnostic. Singapore is a multi-racial, multi-religious society, by the way. If you’re thinking if my school background or the fact i studied Bible Knowledge as a subject in school had something to do with my conversion - then you would be wrong. I’ll tell you a secret: I hated Christians so much that i even drew a picture of Christ on the crucifix and depicted Him burning in hell and posted it on the bulletin board of the school - that earned me a week’s suspension.

If not geography, then solely upon the happenstance of being told about the Christian brand of religion being true, and all of the others, false.

It was divine intervention that led me to the Church. No preacher, girlfriend, friend, book, foe or the internet could take credit for it. He literally brought me into His place of worship. I remember there was a Seventh Day Adventist Church next to the Catholic Church and further down, was a mosque. God could have lead me to either places of worship, but He specifically brought me there. How you might ask? Well, to this day, i cannot explain. Perhaps i was sleep-walking? But i doubt so, since it was during the day and after work when i was walking towards the bus-stop. I do not like to call other religions false (i have even stood up for Hindus and their religion on this forum) and sometimes even for the Muslims (although i do believe Islam’s prophet may have been mislead). I like to think of religions outside Christianity as the “stepping-stones” before the practitioner decides to take the leap - but only out of his/her own will.

I suspect if you had been born in India, you would be on the website **forums.Hindu.com **and heaping praise upon Vishnu and the many Hindu miracles.

Oh i do not have to be online to know it. I was once a Brahmin, remember? And i am the only convert in my family.