Miracles of the Saints - Protestant reaction?

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allischalmers said:
And has DNA testing proved that either one has the DNA of Jesus Christ on them?
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The fact that they match tells us that the same person was in two different places thousands of miles apart, and at completely different periods in history.

There are two possiblities: Jesus, or Mary, since only Jesus or Mary could physically be on the earth at two different times, hundreds of years apart.

Since the DNA is male, that leaves Jesus.

😃
 
Wildkit said:
This miracle occurred 13 centuries ago, and yet those Catholics have been hiding it for all this time,……unbelievable!!! Thank goodness that it is the only event they can talk about! Er ,….dosdog,…….you think there is a hearing problem?
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Where did you get the idea that the miracle of Lanciano was hidden for 13 centuries? It has been public knowledge since the miracle took place. The DNA tests were done 13 centuries later simply because we did not have the technology until recently.
And what about those other fake incorrupt bodies,……is this the only miracle? Did someone say Fatima? Of course the Muslims have many examples as does certain Evangelical groups.
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Indeed. Many non-Catholics and Muslims alike witnessed the miracle of the Apparition at Zeitoun.

I believe this is the official website with various contemporary news reports and photographs:

zeitun-eg.org/stmaridx.htm
As Alchemist relates,……this really is not human tissue, it is all made up! What would one expect from an Italian scientist?? It is a forgery, just like ALL the other made up events of certain holy people that some people want us to believe were really good and maybe our Lord is trying to tell us something connected with their life,……non sense!!
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The tissue in Lanciano is, in fact, heart tissue. Unless Alchemist personally examined it, he does not have credibility.
This thread is for Protestant’s reactions so back to the topic. Yet if there is ever a question on Transubstantiation, please explain this event to me. The best I have heard is that they froze a human heart, and since type AB blood is so common in the world and of course Italy, they merely sliced off a piece of tissue and got lucky.
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I can see that you have not actually read about the miracle of Lanciano, since you are relaying information that you “heard” somewhere.
Those Catholics will try anything!!
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May the Holy Spirit free you from the imprisonment of your paranoia.
 
I would encourage anyone with doubts about the miracles of Saints, or even just an interest (because this stuff is really fascinating no matter what religion you are I think), to read this article below - it even has some photos of a couple of the Saints still being exposed today:

livingmiracles.net/Incorrupt.html

I am very curious to hear some reactions from those people who previously posted their doubts.

Peace
 
theguidedheart said:
I would encourage anyone with doubts about the miracles of Saints, or even just an interest (because this stuff is really fascinating no matter what religion you are I think), to read this article below - it even has some photos of a couple of the Saints still being exposed today:

livingmiracles.net/Incorrupt.html

I am very curious to hear some reactions from those people who previously posted their doubts.

Peace
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i’ve read about bernadette and it seems like a beautiful fairytale and i mean that in the magical sense. :crying:

i’d be interested to know if there’s any examples of this in other religions or those of no religion at all. just curious.
 
Eden said:
Where did you get the idea that the miracle of Lanciano was hidden for 13 centuries? It has been public knowledge since the miracle took place. The DNA tests were done 13 centuries later simply because we did not have the technology until recently.

Indeed. Many non-Catholics and Muslims alike witnessed the miracle of the Apparition at Zeitoun.

I believe this is the official website with various contemporary news reports and photographs:

zeitun-eg.org/stmaridx.htm

The tissue in Lanciano is, in fact, heart tissue. Unless Alchemist personally examined it, he does not have credibility.

I can see that you have not actually read about the miracle of Lanciano, since you are relaying information that you “heard” somewhere.

May the Holy Spirit free you from the imprisonment of your paranoia.
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My facetious remarks were taken way too seriously!

I was hoping some one would say something about the freezers the Italians have been using since the fifth century without electricity!!!

No, ……….I believe this is one of the greatest miracles God gave to his Church,………not the Anglicans nor Baptist nor Episcopalians nor Muslims! I would love for someone to explain why so many of these Catholic Saints have the signs for others (including you and me) that there was something special that God wanted to make sure our attention was drawn to. Whether it is the incorrupt tongue of St. Anthony of Padua (and the sermons he gave for his parishioners), the incorrupt body of St. Bernadette, or this Eucharist that is over 1300 years old, why are all these events Catholic?

Does anyone want to talk about Transubstantiation??? Given this event in Lanciano, I don’t think so!

This miracle that could only be proved with the technology we have today belies another point someone brought up. Faith requires belief in the mystery of our Lord. I believe our Lord has given us many signs, i.e. miracles, for us, but how many miracles do we really know anything about, or how much easier is it to come up with some other lame excuse for why the event is not real and say it is a sign of the devil or something? Come on,….do you really think the devil would be proclaiming the word of God?

This miracle at Lanciano is one that I never knew about until this internet thing came about. Again, why do all these events always seem to be Catholic? Is my Lord saying something to me?
 
Wildkit said:
This miracle at Lanciano is one that I never knew about until this internet thing came about. Again, why do all these events always seem to be Catholic? Is my Lord saying something to me?
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Could He have found any better way to say, “Hey, you - yeah, you - the one that said you wanted to follow Me - here I Am!! Come on, then - you coming? Or just talking?” 😃
 
Thank God am Christian. Thank God am Catholic 😃

btw, i saw the Lanciano miracle on TV. So it is TV, books, pamphlets ecc. Why is more needed? a publicity campain?? miracles are there for those who want to see. But there are many Thomassss .

Zeintoun is real as well. I asked Egyptian Muslims and they knew about it.But as usual, people don’t want to see/understand.
 
inJESUS said:
btw, i saw the Lanciano miracle on TV. So it is TV, books, pamphlets ecc. Why is more needed? a publicity campain?? miracles are there for those who want to see. But there are many Thomassss .

Zeintoun is real as well. I asked Egyptian Muslims and they knew about it.But as usual, people don’t want to see/understand.
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It must be that “Its the culture” thing I nkeep hearing about on Catholic radio.
 
I consider myself post-Protestant, for want of a better term. I believe in miracles, most definitely. However, I was reading about St. Bernadette and I have trouble swallowing the Apparition at Lourdes.

It’s not that I don’t believe there was really an Apparition or that I think that St. Bernadette lied. It’s the behavior of the Apparition herself that troubles me, if the account I read is correct.

Seventeen times the apparition appeared to Bernadette, and she never identified herself until the seventeeth time as the “Immaculate Conception.” Bernadette asked her a number of times for her name and the lady merely smiled and looked around until that last time.

What is wrong with this picture? Look at these verses:

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Now I know the verses were talking about false prophets, but it is the principle I draw your attention to. It’s the principle of Jesus Christ. Even the Holy Spirit does not testify of Himself but of Jesus:
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Knowing what I know now, if I encountered an apparition like that of Lourdes, I would seek to know whom it served. There seemed to be no particular point to the appearance except to draw attention to itself–and if so, this is the work of a familiar spirit. I am surprised that the priest that Bernadette went to didn’t have the understanding to check the spirit out himself.

I don’t think the Catholic Church has ever officially approved this miracle, has it? I am told that Church officialdom is quite conservative on giving its stamp of approval to such things, and well it should be. The danger of a senseless, impractical phenomenon is that it stirs people up to go seek phenomena instead of Jesus Christ.

And before anyone says, “Oh, but people are healed,” let me remind you that Satan can counterfeit God’s works. Remember Moses and the Egyptian magicians? Much as I like to see people made well, the point of the Kingdom of God is not to give us a perfect life on this present earth, but to give us perfect fellowship with God and a perfect life FOREVER in an incorruptible state.
 
The apparitions at Lourdes by Our Lady to Saint Bernadette are most definitely approved by the local Bishop and The Holy See.

They have been for over a century.

Our Lady’s reply to her name as “The Immaculate Conception” was meant to clear up the false teaching that some in the Christian faith had when doubting her sinless nature, and teaching such.

She certainly wasn’t playing any games with St. Bernadette nor the good people of France or anyone else for that matter.

Of course, her apparitions are never meant to draw attention away from her Divine Son, only to point us in His direction.

Ad Jesum per Mariam!
 
What was their basis of deciding it was legit? I mean, what did they measure it against?
 
glimmer said:
What was their basis of deciding it was legit? I mean, what did they measure it against?
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Great question,…….and some one will have to help with the answer. I believe the Bishop has to investigate the events and determine if there is any change from the Catholic doctrines. Furthermore, the miracles have to be investigated and explained. That is my general understanding.

St. Bernadette was exhumed when she was beatified, that is being considered to be a Saint. Maybe all the miracles attributed to Lourdes had something to do with it, but to exhume a body 30 years later and find it in the state of incorruption and as beautiful as it is,……….does anyone think these events are all just coincidental? Please explain as I need some help.

Again,………it is my humble opinion that maybe our Lord is trying to say something to me associated with this holy person. If I saw this event with a JW, Mormon, or any other Protestant belief, I would have to look at the events very carefully. But I don’t see them or maybe I just see the propensity of these events if they are there.

Someone asked why doesn’t the Catholic Church make these known? Another good question. While I have my own thoughts, the Lord wanted his Apostles, his Church to Evangelize the world. I just don’t know, yet maybe there is something to that question
 
I have know of many of this events for as long as I can remember. The Catholics have handed down these miracles to their members and their children. There has never been anything secret about these events. The knowledge of these miracles have always turned me toward Jesus. There are movies about them there are books about them and now there are internet sites about them. They have been a great sign of God’s Love for us.

So then why don’t Protestants know about them? My theory is because they do not want to know about them. The same as why there are so many lies spread about what Catholics really teach. Many do not want to know the truth and never seek the truth.

I was quite surprised when someone gave me some Protestant literature that proclaimed that miraculous events were the tricks of Satan. Jesus himself told us that he who is not against us is for us. The devil cannot lead us to Jesus. Yet the Protestant literture clearly condemned miracles as coming from the devil. This never made any sense to me since the miracles actual lead me closer to Jesus.
 
Many of the saints that have witnessed apparitions of Our Lady and Jesus have had a very rough go of it afterwards. Nobody believed them, including their priests. They were often ridiculed and tormented by their peers. Saint Bernadette was questioned over and over and over by her priest, the bishop and other church members to the point of exhaustion. They did everything they could to discredit her account. She never changed her story.

When Our Lady revealed her name to Bernadette as “The Immaculate Conception” is was very troubling for her priest. Bernadette wasn’t exactly a very bright young girl, in fact, she was told she was pretty stupid at times. So when Bernadette told her priest and others that The Lady replied “The Immaculate Conception” when asked Her name, this was very important. You see, the Immaculate Conception had only been a defined Doctrine of the Church four years prior. That is to say, the Church had always professed the Immaculate Conception of Our Lady as Divine Truth in so many words, but it wasn’t formally proclaimed until 1854 (again, to combat untruths that were being taught at the time outside the Church). Needless to say, Bernadette had never been taught this Doctrine by her parents or the priest. This immediately got everyone’s attention. Nevermind the actual miracle, which was the ever-flowing spring that Bernadette dug from the dry ground where Our Lady instructed her to dig. This spring has continued to flow unceasingly since that day and thousands of miracles have taken place to those who have bathed in the water, many authenticated officially by the Church (after much scrutiny) and others known only to those who have received them.

Besides the Miracle at Fatima, Lourdes is the most recognized shrine for Catholics in the world. It is open to people of all faiths. My daughter witnessed a healing at the shrine last summer. Mass is continuously offered there in different languages. Anyone can bathe in the waters.

None of these events are secret. As someone else said previously, there are hundreds, if not thousands of books about Marian apparitions and Eucharistic miracles available, many with authentic photography. Movies galore (including the 1940’s Song of Bernadette) have come out of Hollywood and internet sites are all over the web. And the Church isn’t shy about the incidents that aren’t proclaimed miracles either. There are plenty of unauthentic “miracles” and “apparitions” out there too. That’s why the Church investigates them exhaustingly.

As Catholics, we’re not required to believe in any of these, true or not. They’re not imperative to or necessary for our salvation. They’re never to contradict anything in the Gospels or they’re definitely bogus. Their only purpose is to lift our faith towards Jesus Christ, and in some cases, urgently.

By the way, Our Lady has appeared more times in apparitions in the 20th and 21st century than She has all the times throughout the first 19 centuries combined.

So believe is you want, don’t worry about it if you don’t. I find them extremely comforting.
 
az_4_faith said:
As someone else said previously, there are hundreds, if not thousands of books about Marian apparitions and Eucharistic miracles available, many with authentic photography.
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I don’t have a problem with believing that Bernadette was telling the truth or that all this hasn’t been documented. For some reason, people keep bringing up how many people saw, and how much documentation, etc. The question is not whether it happened or whether people are healed, but what spirit was it of and how does it fit into the purposes of God? See, even Satan is beautiful and that’s why I must ask the question even of a Marian apparition.

If it truly turns people to Christ, then I am glad, though I would like to know what that actually means to individuals. Does it mean oohing and ahhing over phenomena and acting religious or does it mean they have a deeper walk and experience much repentance and transformation?

When I was 10, I saw a UFO. It knocked out a TV station and other people saw it, too. The question was not its authenticity or whether I was even crazy (at least not after it hit the papers the day after I told my parents). The real question was what was it? Was it a “flying saucer” because that’s what it represented to us? Or was it a paranormal manifestation? A black op project? I never found out, but it did not diminish the fact that it was real whatever it was.

Thank you for your thoughtful and patient response. I wish everyone were as courteous.
 
theguidedheart said:
These seem to be miraculous acts of God through the Saints, and yet it is not something that I hear many Protestants (I know some Protestants do hold high esteem for the Saints although the miracle of the Eurcharist would still be one that seems to contradict their practices), or anyone outside of the Cathlolic Church for that matter make reference to?

Why is this? Any ideas, or reactions from non-catholics about the importance of these miracles?
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Pentecostal/Evangelical/“Spirit-filled” Protestants believe that miracles happen all the time, and are not restricted to officially-designated Saints. More traditionalist Protestant denominations tend to follow the line in that “miracles no longer occur”.

On a personal note, my Beloved is writing a Ph.D. thesis on the different versions of the life of an Anglo-Saxon saint, and one of the most obvious diachronic trends is the appearance and subsequent increase of accounts of miracles. This has also been noted in similar studies of other saints. That sort of thing does tend to promote scepticism.
 
Mystophilus said:
Pentecostal/Evangelical/“Spirit-filled” Protestants believe that miracles happen all the time, and are not restricted to officially-designated Saints. More traditionalist Protestant denominations tend to follow the line in that “miracles no longer occur”.

Why is that so the the mainstream protestant don’t believes in miracles?? So does it really take someone especially those non believers where miracle does happened on them for these group of protestant to see then they believes God does perform it??

On a personal note, my Beloved is writing a Ph.D. thesis on the different versions of the life of an Anglo-Saxon saint, and one of the most obvious diachronic trends is the appearance and subsequent increase of accounts of miracles. This has also been noted in similar studies of other saints. That sort of thing does tend to promote scepticism.
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