Miracles to convince me, a non-believer

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Just to focus the discussion: if God does miracles to demonstrate his presence and power, why does he do not do miracles that demonstrate his presence and power? Why does he do only miracles that could have a natural explanation? And even if you believe they could not have a natural explanation (like deceit, delusion, trickery, mis-description etc) why does he not do miracles that could not possibly be fake? Like Catholics believe he did when he raised a decomposing body from the dead,or raised hundreds of dead people to walk among the living, or walked on water? And how about re-growing an amputated limb? Or resurrecting a cremated person? These so-calledmiracles promoted by the Church convince no one not disposed to believe already. So what are they for? Why would God bother?
 
In 1978 the Image on the Shroud was subjected to an intensive five gathering of data, and then the 24 scientists spent three years analyzing that data. If this so-called reproduction were to be subjected to the same scrutiny, it would be immediately recognized as the work of a human hand. Both the artist and his methods would be uncovered. That didn’t happen with the Shroud.

Ref: Heller, REPORT ON THE SHROUD OF TURIN, 1983

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...ientists_claim_of_reproducing_shroud_of_turin

http://greatshroudofturinfaq.com/Science/Attempts/garlaschelli.html

theshroudofturin.blogspot.com

No image under blood #25: The man on the Shroud: The evidence is <i>overwhelming</i> that the Turin Shroud is Jesus' burial sheet!

NO IMAGE UNDER BLOOD #25 Copyright &copy Stephen E. Jones[ 1 ] This is part #25, "The man on the Shroud: No image under blood," of my series...
theshroudofturin.blogspot.com theshroudofturin.blogspot.com
 
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FiveLinden said:
I thought I would start a thread by explaining the view of a non-believer about miracle claims and what would need to be demonstrated to convince me. First, there is the question of what a miracle claim would convince me of, since a miracle could be done (some say) by another god, or a demon. For the sake of this discussion I will say that I would presume, after seeing evidence of an actual supernatural event, that it was cause by the spiritual being to whom prayers were directed prior.

Such a miracle would need to be something that could not happen naturally. Examples would be a person developing wheels in their feet operating on axles; the creation of a species with no genetic link to any other living thing; the resurrection of someone who had been cremated; a five year old revealing the meaning of Etruscan writing; a talking snake; someone walking on water. Excluded would be things that happen rely but naturally, like spontaneous remission of disease.

It would also need to be performed in conditions that prevent fraud, such a supervision by expert conjurors and multiple cameras. This would exclude, for example, all ‘eucharistic miracles’ I have heard of.

And then, it would need to be repeated, just as repeated results are required for scientific findings.

Evidence for the miracle would need to be published and subject to peer review.

Something like that would be pretty convincing to me. Please let me know when it happens.
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“Please let me know when it happens.”???

Do millennials ever do their own work? The sense of entitlement is staggering.
 
Honest. Other people can not do self exploration for a person.

The only way a person can make these discoveries is through their own hard work.

Faith does not come from a book. Or my showing an assembly line of people with wheels on their feet.
 
What does being a Millennial have to do with it? In fact, did the OP state their age, or were you just looking for an excuse to dump on Millennials?
 
Faith in your heart will be the first miracle you experience 🕊️🙏
 
Well, no wonder you can’t “find” any “evidence”. You are so jaded and closed off that you cannot even see that which is right in front of you!

If you did indeed read the article and read the reports associated with the cases then perhaps you can tell me on what basis you dismiss the miracle at Fatima and the miracles associated with Padre Pio and Fulton Sheen.

I submit that you may quibble over whether more not these MUST have been God, but you cannot quibble over the fact that phenomena cannot be explained by science.

As human beings, we can only say what is reasonable and what is not reasonable. However, if you have no understanding of God a miracle will never be reasonable to you.

You are starting in the wrong place.
 
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You have Moses and the prophets, and you have the evidence of creation around you. May God turn your heart to belief in Him.
 
It is just an observation about entitlement.

It doesn’t matter if I eat the broccoli for the OP, he still isn’t going to get the nutrition.

If I do eat the broccoli, all he will do is come up with another objection to faith.

I spent three years in a world where learning was done through the Socratic method. It tends to make a person blunt. Personally, I’d rather a blunt answer that tells me that I am barking up the wrong tree. It makes me ask why. I don’t like being coddled and never knowing I was on the wrong track to finding the answer I was trying to discover.

If you observe learning styles, I think you will find it to be generational. There are just as many problems with the style of learning I had. Your reaction is a great example.

It is why I know I would have a hard time being a teacher today. I have a bad habit of thinking that things are easy to understand, and I lack patience.

You made me reflect that I am being the way my father was with me. I need to work on that. It wasn’t helpful to me to say the least.
 
HolySpirit said:
If you observe learning styles, I think you will find it to be generational. There are just as many problems with the style of learning I had. Your reaction is a great example.
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My reaction was to call a rude post rude. There’s nothing generational about that.

Do you know how old I am, or are you making yet more assumptions?
 
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I am 97% sure the OP is a millennial. I believe that it has come up on other posts.

Regardless of the accuracy of my generalization, the underlying point is accurate. The sentiment that I spoke of was encapcilated in the part of the statement that I highlighted. I think the OP would probably agree with me that the bolded portion was included to get a reaction out of people.

It worked.

How did you interpret it?
 
Needless to insult an entire generation. Also short sighted.

The OP came to a forum of people who profess an interest in the topic of faith. There are even clergy on here. And I have seen them be asked on other threads what would “make them believe”; so they made a thread explaining said parameters.

It’s not entitled to go to an interest group and put forth questions on that interest. It’s a good step on the road to research as even if we don’t know we can assist in pointing in the right direction.
 
HolySpirit said:
I think the OP would probably agree with me that the bolded portion was included to get a reaction out of people.

It worked.

How did you interpret it?
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If you’re trying to get a reaction for the sake of getting a reaction, I interpret that as immaturity.

Your post is still rude.
 
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You are entitled to your opinion. I notice that you did not answer my question. Do you think the statement was included to get a reaction? Or do you think that the OP truly expects you to go out and personally get peer reviewed studies that will convince him that God exists.

Have you started your research yet? Time is wasting while he goes about his day. When do you expect to have your findings ready to present to him?
 
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