Mister De says "Muslims worship who they believe is God, but is none other than the Devil himself."

[Sam_777]

YI am a little confused what do i not want to happen to me? that i sell all I have and follow Jesus (PBWH) or that Mahomed (PBWH) suggests i worship God 5 times a day.

Your warning at the end shows wisdom may God bless and guide you always

Hi Steven John,

I have a question for you, what does your soul feel when reading both books?

 

[Steven_John]

My position is a simple one. Muhammad was either insane, lying, was tricked by the Devil, or was the Devil himself. I tend to lean towards option three.

Muslims believe the Qur’an is the word of God. As a Catholic, I would never believe such a thing. I believe the Bible to be the Word of God. If the Quran is not God‘s word, who’s word is it then?

Muslims worship the “god” who inspired the Qur’an. If God (the one true God of the Bible) did not inspire the Qur’an, then who are Muslims truly worshiping? Certainly not the God who inspired the Bible. The Qur’an strongly denies Christ, rejects the Trinity, orders the murder of pagans, and encourages violence against Jews/Christians. Sounds like things Satan would order, not God.

Do any Christians actually believe the Angel Gabriel visited Muhammad for 20 years, spoke to him, and relayed the message of “god”? Now, assuming Muhammad wasn’t insane or lying, and assuming Muhammad himself wasn’t Satan, then who was the angel really? I severely doubt it was Gabriel. The angel visiting Muhammad, if there even was an angel, could only have been Satan.

I know Muslims believe they are following the Creator, the one true God, but they are following Satan’s word, not God’s.

“And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light.”
– 2 Corinthians 11:14

Muhammad was duped.

Hi Mister De,
if you did not want to answer my question you could have just said so. No need to bury me with so many questions.

I asked you for help.

Jesus (PBWH) helped people.

May peace be upon you as you sort yourself out and I hold nothing against you for being afraid to answer me.

My personal feeling for me is to try not to shoot my mouth off without foundation. I learned it in prayer reflecting on “no one is good but the Father”

 

[MugenOne]

If Mohammed was a holy man, why was he doing this sensual
act everyday and night? Isn’t he supposed to pray five times day? If Mohammed ascended to heaven, is this what he said? No other religion promises endless sexual pleasure like Islam. If you have a brain, some kind of light should pop up out of your head when listening to its crazy teaching.

• Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268: * Narrated Qatada:
  Anas bin Malik said, “The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number.” I asked Anas, “Had the Prophet the strength for it?” Anas replied, “We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men).” And Sa’id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven).

Sunan Ibn Maja, Zuhd (Book of Abstinence) 39 Abu Umama narrated: "The Messenger of God said, ‘Everyone that God admits into paradise will be married to 72 wives; two of them are houris and seventy of his inheritance of the [female] dwellers of hell. All of them will have libidinous sex organs and he will have an ever-erect penis.’

Mishkat al-Masabih Book IV, Chapter XLII, Paradise and Hell, Hadith Number 24 The Holy Prophet said: 'The believer will be given such and such strength in Paradise for sexual intercourse. It was questioned: O prophet of Allah! can he do that? He said: "He will be given the strength of one hundred persons.

 

[Steven_John]

First of all, before you go saying this or that about the prophet of another religion, please research the history of the prophet and read the holy book of the religion. There’s no law against doing this, and it will actually help you to better understand the religion.

Also, saying that Muslims worship the devil - yes, you are saying this - is contrary to what the Church teaches. The Church says, in the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church and in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that Muslims worship the only living God.

May God bless you for your contribution.

Truly your post shows “the church” is greater in wisdom than one of its members.

May God keep you and yours in His ways

 

[Steven_John]

Did Gabriel visit Muhammad or didn’t he?

Either he did - Which would mean the bible is wrong, the Qu’ran is right, Christianity is false and Muhammad was telling the truth.

Or he didn’t - Which would mean Muhammad was lying, was delusional, or was tricked by an evil fallen angel or demon (I.e. Satan).

I am not a scholar of the Quran as you may be

I understand it to say Christianity is true but many of its members in that time had it wrong.

I understand it to also say the 5 books of Moses (PBWH) are true but many Jews had it wrong.

Its a pattern it repeats even today. it does in me at times i can tell you.

I ask the blessed Mary, the angels and saints you my brothers and sisters to pray with me to God our Father… that we be forgiven.

May we submit to the one true God as all the holy prophets (PBWTA) offer us to do.

 

[Steven_John]

The fact of the matter is, we don’t know whether Mohammmed was visited by an angel or not, good or bad, or what have you. Muslims believe he was visited Gabriel. The Church is silent on the matter, and for good reason: we ought to not judge lest we be judged, we ought to respect the Muslims and their beliefs and practices, even if we may not agree with them, and we ought to hold dialogue with them on common grounds, for the good of mankind.

Now, when Islam came into the world, the Christians at the time considered it be the religion of the antichrist, because Muslims disbelieved in the Incarnation and the Trinity (In the letter of St. John, the writer tells us that all those who do not acknowledge the triune God and Jesus come in the flesh are antichrists). Now, dose this mean we have to call Muslims antichrists, or treat them in wrongful ways? No. Even if we consider Muslims to be our enemies, we still must treat them well, pray for them, not utter an insult against them - we have to imitate our Lord, Jesus Christ. Over the years, though, guided by the Holy Spirit, the Church has come to understand that the Muslims are not worshippers of the antichrist; they acknowledge the same God, they honor Jesus as a Prophet and Messiah and they love his Mother Mary, they do works of prayer, fasting, and alms, they believe in the last things (resurrection, last judgment, heaven, and hell), and they seek, with us, the greater good of mankind. So rather than persecuting them, judging them, or offending them, we ought to respect them and hold dialogue with them. And yes, pray for them; prayer is always good.

Amen to unity

 

[Steven_John]

You’re absolutely right, but I don’t remember hearing anyone claim that Muslims are beyond forgiveness, and if they do, they’re mistaken (“Forgive them Father, they know not what they do”). But I think the Quran and Muslim tradition and behavior for the past 1400 years is a pretty good basis on which to make such claims. Don’t you think that denying the very existence of the Holy Spirit while claiming to believe in God is getting pretty close to that most serious sin? Do you think such a thing is beyond the evil of a demon? Because if something really did contact Mohammad, it told him things that an angel of God NEVER would have told someone.

It’s important to remember that the Quran is very specific that such virtues are only to be displayed to fellow Muslims, and provides a very different set of “virtues” for dealing with infidels.

Behavior of religions in the past is not good to consider, name a religion that has not held a sword or at least been used to hold one.

I am not a scholar but does the Quran teach forgiveness and mercy above even justice?

Was Moses (PBWH) involved in of killing those that were not willing to worship only one God? If he was was he possessed by a demon?

Is the Holy spirit that that guides us in the way of God? (of course if we submit)

Don’t Muslims pray 5 times a day to God only for God to guide them? Did not Jesus (PBWH) teach this (not 5 times a day)?

May God keep and bless you and yours as so He wills

 

[MH84]

Jesus himself said, there are no other prophets after John the baptist and also the devil can appear as an angel of light.

Is that right?

You better look at the scriptures:

**Acts 11:27

27During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)

Acts 13:1
1In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.

Acts 15:32
32Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the brothers.

1 Corinthians 14:29
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.

1 Corinthians 14:37
37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command.

Ephesians 4:11
11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,**

 

[Steven_John]

This is one of my big religious pet peevs. This does not mean that we should not judge others. It means that you should be cautious of the standards by which you judge others, because you will be judged by those same standards. Why do so many people misunderstand this? Is it really that hard? Jesus also said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Does this mean we shouldn’t punish people for crimes?

I agree
if we have free will what is it for?
God gives us guidance to discern.
Avoid the word judgement in spiritual matters if you can.
Only God has / will judge and will do it through Jesus (PBWH) i think, but dont quote me i need to pray more.

We are all entitled to justice even in worldly matters.

In religion love is a verb

Number 1.
Is to love THE ONE AND ONLY GOD the one that is greater than Jesus (PBWH)

Number 2.
is to love each other

If you agree with 1 & 2 say Amen,
now we have prayed to gether, feel the world changed.

my guidance says Jew , Christian & Muslim all said Amen

 

[MH84]

Mister De says “Muslims worship who they believe is God, but is none other than the Devil himself.”

If this is true, then he is an ignorant.

Read the what the Catechism says:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]

christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/church3.html

 

[Steven_John]

That’s a very good point. It’s unlikely to convince Muslims or unbelievers, but it should serve as a good reminder to Christians.

When you read the Quran did it not say the Gospel was the truth?

Where do we get christianity the Gospel (inspired word of God) or men?

Be ware blind men lead you into a hole.
Ask your self over and over where did i FIRST get this idea.

Peace and blessings be upon you

 

[Steven_John]

Look, the point is, Muslims worship God, not Satan. That’s the Church’s teaching. You can’t call yourself a Catholic and not believe what the Church teaches.

*In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

• Dogmatic Constitution on the Church - Lumen Gentium, 16*

And before you say, “Oh, but it’s not Catholic dogma,” re-read the title of the constitution: Dogmatic Constitution on the Church.

God Guides some and leads others astray.

May God continue to guide you

 

[Steven_John]

You still haven’t answered my question though. Here’s another one.

This is the scenario…

I’m a homeless man. I’m sitting on a park bench late at night, when all of a sudden an “angel” appears. He professes to be Gabriel, of the Bible, and has a message for me from God. He tells me Christianity is false, Jesus was not God, nor was he the Messiah, Christianity is evil and sinful, and I must convert everyone to the true religion, which the angel teaches me. The “angel” tells me I am under the command of God and must carry out this mission.

Now, I’m convinced that the angel was really Gabriel, so I go and I preach God’s new message. When the Vatican gets word of this, would they say I was really visited by Gabriel? Never. They would most certainly say that if there was an angel, the angel was in no way Gabriel, and was not sent from God. So, if the angel was not Gabriel and was not send by God, who was it, and who sent it? It could only be a demon or evil spirit, right? Evil, trying to lead me astray. So by following the “angels” message from “god”, am I following the One True God? Or am I following the demon/evil spirit?

You ask questions This post started with one to you.

Be so careful, Jesus (PBWH) is narrated to have said something like sell all you have and buy gold from my Father.

If the vatican has a problem with park bench people it misses the point. But its your word the vatican would not believe not theirs.

In times past the Vatican was not what it is now or i would not be here.

People can be like little kids holding a 2 edged sword the wrong way, by the blade and they hold it so tight for fear of letting it go thinking it will hurt.

My Father is so loving He does not rip it from their hand, even though He knows they need to let it go so they can better perform His work.

He sends His children, servants and slaves, submitting Jinn and angels, that gently encourage them to let it go and be there to heal.

Now if you are unsure of this pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray, only only only only only only only only only, as our Brother Jesus(PBWH) taught, to My Father, for He is Your Father

Then trust in God if you are unsure that you are not meant to hang on to it for ever He wont let you let it go.

I tell you this not because i am against you but because i am for you.

I love you so very much but brother you in my interpretation are much substance and no source this is drawn form your avoidance of the question asked of you.

this thread was started for you and as reviled to me by The Divine One above all, that is the source of all creation and present in all religions the two witness have been brought forward.

Again let me assure you I am for you and i Love you.

You may be of the chosen, we are in the Messianic time and you are to awaken many directly and in directly.

Take your time if you want but you CAN awaken before your hour.

with love and in gratitude for all you have done for me
i will be who i will be

 

[Steven_John]

Hi Steven John,

I have a question for you, what does your soul feel when reading both books?

You ask the best question Sam its the one we should all ask.

I am too un educated to describe it to you. Maybe too educated to describe it to you.

Humble Alive, Humble important, afraid , loved I cry i smile I feel strong but humble , I feel weak…

Some times I Know a part was written directly at me.
Some times it is like reading my self.

Only the One that gave life to the first day and owns the last day could know me so well and could be the origin of such indescribable life.

I take from this and pray and my soul moves toward the great awakening and I long to move with it , bubbles of power submit to me as they let me pass I don’t ask them to, they have no choice and the greater ones dont move aside and keep me form the vails hiding The One Above All and is In All.

The bubble things are submitting to me but i am humbled before them some times if some one has been real sad or angry to me the bubbles might be covered in darkness and need to be helped to glow again for My Father is present an ALL. I feel real sad about the ones i cant help but its ok for maybe you are chosen to.

I know i can command them to let me pass but I am to walk the path with matter of this world very soon they let me pass without command then i will bring you more manna. Maybe i need more people to pray for me or it is Our praying for you that will have you bring it to us.

I do this way because the will I have been given is better when guided. In this earthly realm i tried to be the driver and did not do so well I was always looking for more.

May you Be blessed Sam so you be awake always having both demons and angels submit to you as you submit the Almighty Indescribable Owner of all days.

…
My approach to the books

I cant speak with any authority of the books as i don’t have complete comprehension of either and every time i read again i get new meaning as if they were alive.

I will give it my best shot before my human part.

The Quran is one book of some chapters and is written for a people of a time. Translated into english you need to pray and be very patient to unlock it.

The Bible is many books written for different peoples of different times. It has been oral before writing and can be very contradictory so you need to pray and be patient.

Both have more than one translation and depending on your education and ancestors you may find it valuable to get many, I do.

" i put a barrier before them and a barrier behind them" for me this has some meaning
“i put a rod before them and a rod behind them”

Has more meaning to me for to me rod is truth, some cant get beyond the truth of the past or the future.

You need to read them seeking understanding / awareness / light
this is the part for all peoples of all times

“seek and you will find”

Read to find the bible untrue and you might see termites eating an ark.

Read to find the Quran true and you may find a wealth of spiritual understanding of how to get justice, mercy and blessings.

Now the spiritual truth of both for me so far.
Faith to me is not something handed down but a shared consciousness that should be alive so therefore changes as we awaken as opposed to dogma which can be handed on and is not a bad thing but can be used in darkness.

Read to share the consciousness of the people it unites us.
If you can do this and feel a stirring a little door is being opened for you to go through it show God you are willing to share your consciousness with the people of that time.

This is a four year journey if you make it or if you have made it I will be with you in your life and we will be in each other for ever.

 

[ronyodish]

Peace and blessings Rony,

Indeed Jesus (PBWH) does love me, so much so the truth of his narrated word says God is greater than Jesus (PBWH).
Thats love he speaks truth, that even a little child can understand.

In my post i must have missed explaining that “It took me lots of time and prayer to have understanding of the words they spoke”.

May God bless you and yours for your sharing of truth.

Steven John,

Peace and blessings upon you, image of God!

Yes, God the Father is greater than Jesus Christ with regards Jesus’ Human Nature: “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28)

God the Father is equal to Jesus Christ with regards Jesus’ Divine Nature: “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30)

May the love of the Father, the favor of the Son, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, the One Eternal God, rest upon you and upon all whom you love!

God bless,

Rony

 

[Mjae]

I believe Mohammed was either delusional, or a dupe of Satan. In either case, I think he was sincere to begin with, but took advantage of his position as his power increased and took an active, knowing part in deceiving others as well as himself.

I believe Muslims, for the most part, are honestly devout and truly believe they are worshiping the one True God. God is aware of this and takes this into consideration, as He loves each of us equally.

 

[Steven_John]

Steven John,

Peace and blessings upon you, image of God!

Yes, God the Father is greater than Jesus Christ with regards Jesus’ Human Nature: “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28)

God the Father is equal to Jesus Christ with regards Jesus’ Divine Nature: “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30)

May the love of the Father, the favor of the Son, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, the One Eternal God, rest upon you and upon all whom you love!

God bless,

Rony

Dear Rony,
when i read your post to me i grow a great smile of love from you in your words.

I am not against what you are saying to me (john 10:30) have you ever pondered if the word “one” is a translation of an understanding of unity?

If the word is Divine , which it is, I am called to read it with least contradiction so to see simple truth easily understood at my un educated level.

Did you understand the equality on your own from prayer and the word or did a man teach it to you?
If a man taught it to you I am sure they loved you and wanted well for you.
Many have taught this orally for a long time but a beautiful Catholic woman taught me before she died that when she was young they could not afford the bible and made do with the oral teaching.
God commands i honor her and i need to look to the source.

Then in unity with the Father acknowledging
His greatness,
my humanity,
and my share of Divinity
they can be unified “one”.

if i am to understand the way I am to be like a child this is easier without contradiction.

believing in the narrated words,
believing the Father is greater than each, and Jesus (PBWH) was in unity with Him when making the statement,
for me this does not lessen the gift.

It also opens a platform for understanding with Muslims and Jews.

Remember Jesus (PBWH) was a Jew
and a Muslim (i have been told the interpretation of this word is “one who submits to God”)
the agony in the garden shows this well.

It is a safe prayer (cant be wrong) platform praying to the Father ONLY
i aspire to follow the way of Jesus (PBWH) by praying to the Father ONLY.

Jesus (PBWH) is narrated to have done this in his last breath.

The God i pray to sees all and knows all He only questions so i question and learn.

If i was to believe Jesus (PBWH) is / was God equally there will still be no error in my prayer.

If God is greater then Jesus (PBWH) (not separating divinity and humanity) my pray could be seen as against the way of Jesus (PBWH) who taught to pray with the Father.

To increase our awareness a question we can ponder is "while havening faith in Jesus (PBWH) do we want the faith of Jesus (PBWH)?

I love you brother and feel blessing in your communication to me.
I am not a good communicator and pray to Our Father He correct the words i type so you see what it is He has revealed and not my lack of education.

May He keep and bless you and yours for generations to come.

 

[Steven_John]

I believe Mohammed was either delusional, or a dupe of Satan. In either case, I think he was sincere to begin with, but took advantage of his position as his power increased and took an active, knowing part in deceiving others as well as himself.

Do you get this from reading and praying about the Quran?
From the Muslims you mix with?
prayer or the TV?

The last part of your post that i have not quoted shows me you are closer to heaven than many and have a great understanding of who I will be is.

May you be blessed and grow in love all your days for God is most merciful.

 

[Mjae]

I thank you for your kind words, but I wouldn’t put a halo on me yet.

Though I believe God loves us all equally, we are all equally responsible for what we do in this life. Islam doesn’t get a free pass. It has enough hatred, abuse, opression and injustice to go around, much of which is not even acknowledged, let alone dealt with.

If that’s to change someone needs to keep pointing it out. There are many good people here who do so, not out of hatred but

 

[Mjae]

Sorry, I posted by mistake before completing my thoughts…

There are many people here who keep bringing up these issues because Islam needs to face and accept criticism and change its worst practices. I’m grateful to all of them.