Mister De says "Muslims worship who they believe is God, but is none other than the Devil himself."

[Steven_John]

Hi (sam) trust you are well.

Do any arabic speaking Christians call The Most high God Allah?

Do all these people claim He / It spoke the words you posted?

Allah and God are words, there meaning differes from preson to person. They are attempts to name The Most High God as they comprehend many are wrong some will change.
I meet many Christians that offer statments for God that are false this does not change the meaning of God in the heart of others.

I respect the meaning of Allah in your heart, i like yout reference The Most High God.

You may have left the post i offered.

May The Most High God guide you in your quest for unity if He wills and you submit.

 

[tomshaikh]

Translation By Dr.Mohsin. Note: Dr means PHD in Islam

We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they joined others in worship with Allâh, for which He had sent no authority; their abode will be the Fire and how evil is the abode of the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong¬doers). Quran-3:151)

Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.] ( Quran-9:5)

Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (Quran-9:29)

So, when you meet (in fight — Jihâd in Allâh’s Cause), those who disbelieve smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islâm), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allâh to continue in carrying out Jihâd against the disbelievers till they embrace Islâm and are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allâh’s Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test some of you with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allâh, He will never let their deeds be lost.] (Quran-47:4)

My advice to you Steven John please consult the below website for Quran Translation. Please Please Please. And my request donot get whole idea about Sam_7 coz he is planning to leave i guess Islam.

www.quranexplorer.com

No wonder One and Only Above mentioned for little gain people
make changes in Holy Books.

You are Wise Enough Steven John

Brother Sam_7 learn something from me. Please I donot know if you really muslim. But you do have some thing true or false about Islam.

 

[Steven_John]

tomshaikh:
AsSalum o Aleikum to you also.

I am very eager to congratulate you that you are into Islam favourizam.

With full respect to you I am not real sure that you and I have the same image of Allah.

The Allah i seek relationship with is all good for his creation and offers the opportunity for me to submit myself to Him.

FOR ME you have offered congratulations to me, this is unfounded the prophet Jesus (PBWH) is narrated to have said something like “no one is good but Allah” therefore without right guidance i can do no good and this explains that ONLY He is worthy of your praise not I.

I am about to pray fajir. Inshallah I will pray for you my brother.

All praise be to Allah, keep up your prayers they help us in guidance if we really work on understanding who / what Allah is and is not. I am grateful to Allah that you would pray for me.

And remember about 99 names of Allah

These are very beautiful as is the description of Father, they help me understanding who / what Allah is and is not. Allah is still so much more than just these 100 descriptors. FOR Me it also helps me to focus on what Allah is not, ie wanting me who lives in peace place to use brute force to make people submit.
I have been told we were all born in submittance to Allah so He affords me the opportunity to gently remind people of His word given by the prophets (PBWT). I know it is not the same opportunity for people in other places of the world today and was not in the time of the prophets (PBWT).

Lots of your post i cant follow, I am poorly educated, have little understanding of Arabic.

Light can see Light.

If this is of awareness it is a great blessing that humbles me.

Instead of calling One and Only Above Father called him Allah.

I respect your request, for me no word from a human mouth can truly describe the God / Allah / Most high that loves me.

Many people are at different places in their faith journey than i am, I try to use words that don’t bring offense to the so they will hear the message rather than the preduice shatan puts in our hearts.

Once again I love you brother. May you and your family be blessed

I also love you, as i do all that is alive due to Allah mercy and love.
I pray you, your kin and kiff be blessed with peace now and in generations to come.

 

[Steven_John]

My advice to you Steven John please consult the below website for Quran Translation. Please Please Please. And my request donot get whole idea about Sam_7 coz he is planning to leave i guess Islam.

Some of what you have posted before this quote takes me a lot of prayer to find peace in.

There are times and places for all actions.

I will look into the website as it maybe useful to me.

Both the bible and the quran have so many versions and translations, were offered to people of places and times the best help i get is by reading source (not comentry) doing deeds of His goodness, giving charity and praying lots and being patient. Surely Allah is with the patient.

As for (sam) we have our own “relationship” i have respect for (sam) regardless to how he feels about me.
I dont understand what it is like for him in SA some of the “islamic” practice he speaks of are very dark.
If Allah guides him to be a Christain that is ok with me.
If other spiritual forces guides him to be a “Christain” and enter into prophet worship the Allah can judge him in His time.

This is the peace given to me, i offer to you all, no one is compulsed to follow me.

Ps I give thanks to Allah for your posts, many posters on this site treat me with scorne, judgment, unkindness, no respect yours are respectful and show wanting helpfulness for my journey.

i will be who i will be

 

[Sam_777]

Brother Sam_7 learn something from me.

Although what I will say might sound discrimination, but that’s what Islam teach, read this from Quran:
(Quran 43:3-4):
“We have made it a Qur-an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom),And verily, it is in the Mother of the Book, in Our Presence, high (in dignity), full of wisdom.”
(Quran 13:37)
“Thus have We revealed it to be a judgment of authority in Arabic. Wert thou to follow their (vain) desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither protector nor defender against Allah.”
(Quran 46:12):
“And before this, was the Book of Musa as a guide and a mercy: and this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic tongue; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right.”

Even there are some Hadiths which claim that the language of Paradise is Arabic:
(E) (A)

However, our Islamic clerics here in Saudi Arabia won’t accept any Fatwa by non-Arabic speaking person, even when they meet to issue Fatwas, all the committee members should speak Arabic as their mother tongue language.

Moreover, I have learned and studied Quran, Hadith, Feqh, Tawheed, Tafseer, from my elementary school till the High school (in Arabic), so a total of 12 years of daily brainwashing, add to that the lectures of Mosques clerics between Maghreb prayer & Isha.

Therefore, Mr.tomshaikh, if you are really interesting in learning more about Islam, then you should come here to Saudi Arabia first to learn Arabic and then to learn the true Islam, and I will be glad to guide you if you decided to, maybe you can come here to perform Omra and I will meet you in Mecca, I also have some friends from India, they will be interesting to debate Christianity & Islam with you in Urdu language.

Please I donot know if you really muslim.

My flesh is still Muslim but my soul is with Lord Jesus:heart:.

But you do have some thing true or false about Islam.

All the posts which I have posted about Islam had authentic references, point me to one false claim.

 

[Sam_777]

Brother Sam_7 learn something from me.

Although what I will say might sounds discrimination, but that’s what Islam teach, read this from Quran:
(Quran 43:3-4):
“We have made it a Qur-an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom),And verily, it is in the Mother of the Book, in Our Presence, high (in dignity), full of wisdom.”
(Quran 13:37)
“Thus have We revealed it to be a judgment of authority in Arabic. Wert thou to follow their (vain) desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither protector nor defender against Allah.”
(Quran 46:12):
“And before this, was the Book of Musa as a guide and a mercy: and this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic tongue; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right.”

Even there are some Hadiths which claim that the language of Paradise is Arabic:
(E) (A)

However, our Islamic clerics here in Saudi Arabia won’t accept any Fatwa by non-Arabic speaking person, even when they meet to issue Fatwas, all the committee members should speak Arabic as their mother tongue language.

Moreover, I have learned and studied Quran, Hadith, Feqh, Tawheed, Tafseer, from my elementary school till the High school (in Arabic), so a total of 12 years of daily brainwashing, add to that the lectures of Mosques clerics between Maghreb prayer & Isha.

Therefore, Mr.tomshaikh, if you are really interesting in learning more about Islam, then you should come here to Saudi Arabia first to learn Arabic and then to learn the true Islam, and I will be glad to guide you if you decided to, maybe you can come here to perform Omra and I will meet you in Mecca, I also have some friends from India, they will be interesting to debate Christianity & Islam with you in Urdu language.

Please I donot know if you really muslim.

My flesh is still Muslim but my soul is with Lord Jesus:heart:.

But you do have some thing true or false about Islam.

All the posts which I have posted about Islam had authentic references, point me to one false claim.

 

[Sam_777]

Do any arabic speaking Christians call The Most high God Allah?

There are some translated Bible versions on the Internet that use the word Allah, and I have heard that there are other translations which do not, they use words like Ellahe or Yarab (I 'm still searching for such translations), but honestly I’m using the words “God The Most High” in all my prayers, since I’m not yet sure of the origin of the word Allah.

Do all these people claim He / It spoke the words you posted?

Allah and God are words, there meaning differes from preson to person. They are attempts to name The Most High God as they comprehend many are wrong some will change.

I somehow agree, but I would rather name The Most High God with the name he told Moses about (Yahweh).

May The Most High God guide you in your quest for unity if He wills and you submit.

Thank you Steven, .

As for (sam) we have our own “relationship” i have respect for (sam) regardless to how he feels about me.

you are really one of the good Muslims on this board.

I dont understand what it is like for him in SA some of the “islamic” practice he speaks of are very dark.

Of course, because its coming from the heart of Satan’s Kingdom, if you want the truth always seek the source.

If Allah guides him to be a Christain that is ok with me.

You mean “God The Most High, Lord Jesus, and The Holy spirit”

 

[planten]

I have had many discussions with those that believe that Islam is a religion of satan under the guise of the messiah. The pro’s to this theory are very convincing. In satan’s quest to replace God, or be just like God, wouldn’t it make sense that he would create a religion that parallels Christianity, yet lacks the positive virtues such as peace, forgiveness, temperance, etc.?

** If you are comparing Islam with christianity then may I ask whether you have read the Quran. How much of the Quran did you read?. Please tell. Thanks.**

 

[planten]

Some of what you have posted before this quote takes me a lot of prayer to find peace in.

There are times and places for all actions.

I will look into the website as it maybe useful to me.

Both the bible and the quran have so many versions and translations, were offered to people of places and times the best help i get is by reading source (not comentry) doing deeds of His goodness, giving charity and praying lots and being patient. Surely Allah is with the patient.

As for (sam) we have our own “relationship” i have respect for (sam) regardless to how he feels about me.
I dont understand what it is like for him in SA some of the “islamic” practice he speaks of are very dark.
If Allah guides him to be a Christain that is ok with me.
If other spiritual forces guides him to be a “Christain” and enter into prophet worship the Allah can judge him in His time.
This is the peace given to me, i offer to you all, no one is compulsed to follow me.

Ps I give thanks to Allah for your posts, many posters on this site treat me with scorne, judgment, unkindness, no respect yours are respectful and show wanting helpfulness for my journey.

i will be who i will be

It is a good post from Steven John. We do not need any christian to convert to Islam if they do not like to do so. “There is no Compulsion in (any) religion.” Al-Quran 2:256.
All that is needed is to be kind and peaceful believer of any faith. Same is for the Muslims and Jews and Hindus. Such people will have no fear of anything and they will not feel sorry. They will have fear for the future and no feeling of disappointment for the past. )A-Quran 2:62)

 

[planten]

:tsktsk: Mr. Steven, these are Allah & Muhammad words:

(Quran 47:4):
“Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.”

**Sam, please note the word Kafir in verse 47:4.

" Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens…

That means when ye meet the Kafirs (utter enemies of Islam) then smite at theri necks…

It is not for ordinary non-believers. Any one may be a non-believer. No body will kill him. He may live right in the midst of the Muslims. As long as he is peaceful and not abusive or fighting type, he may live happily. The Muslims are bound to protect him in every way and to protect his property, place of worship and his life.

There is no order to kill any innocent peaceful person. But it is different about a kafir. A kafir is the enemy of the message brought by the prophet. In the time of Jesus, there were many kafirs. They were giving all sorts of trouble to Jesus. In the time of Moses, the Pharoah and his hosts were the Kafir.

Kafir is an active disbeliever. Please note it. And I need not explain any of your other posted verses now…
In the present time there are many Kafir in the christians and Jews and Hindus and some may be in the Muslims too who are harsh and fanatic. Those who oppress the people only because of their faith (beliefs), they may be of any religion, he will be considered as a Kafir.
Thanks. .**

 

[Sam_777]

**Sam, please note the word Kafir in verse 47:4.

" Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens…

That means when ye meet the Kafirs (utter enemies of Islam) then smite at theri necks…

It is not for ordinary non-believers. Any one may be a non-believer. No body will kill him. He may live right in the midst of the Muslims. As long as he is peaceful and not abusive or fighting type, he may live happily. The Muslims are bound to protect him in every way and to protect his property, place of worship and his life.

There is no order to kill any innocent peaceful person. But it is different about a kafir. A kafir is the enemy of the message brought by the prophet. In the time of Jesus, there were many kafirs. They were giving all sorts of trouble to Jesus. In the time of Moses, the Pharoah and his hosts were the Kafir.

Kafir is an active disbeliever. Please note it. And I need not explain any of your other posted verses now…
In the present time there are many Kafir in the christians and Jews and Hindus and some may be in the Muslims too who are harsh and fanatic. Those who oppress the people only because of their faith (beliefs), they may be of any religion, he will be considered as a Kafir.
Thanks. .**

No “Kafir” means anyone who disbelieve in Allah & his prophet Muhammad, not only atheists or active disbelievers, please read Tafseer Alqurtube & Tafseer Altabari in Arabic to understand it more.
quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=KORTOBY&nType=1&nSora=47&nAya=4
quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=TABARY&nType=1&nSora=47&nAya=4

Moreover, in the Islamic teaching in our Saudi’ schools, anyone who is not a Muslim, whether he/she was Christian, Jews, atheist, etc…, considered to be Kafir, even if he/she was peaceful or non-active.

 

[planten]

No “Kafir” means anyone who disbelieve in Allah & his prophet Muhammad, not only atheists or active disbelievers, please read Tafseer Alqurtube & Tafseer Altabari in Arabic to understand it more.
quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=KORTOBY&nType=1&nSora=47&nAya=4
quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=TABARY&nType=1&nSora=47&nAya=4

Moreover, in the Islamic teaching in our Saudi’ schools, anyone who is not a Muslim, whether he/she was Christian, Jews, atheist, etc…, considered to be Kafir, even if he/she was peaceful or non-active.

** I dont believe it. There is nothing about belief ( Eimaan) in the word Kafir. The Kufr starts with disbelief. But it goes further to opposition and fighting with arms and money. There have been kafir in every age. i.e. in the time of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. Try to recognise them please. They were only those who were fighting against the men of God.

Every one who has not recited the Kalimah is not a Kafir. He may be a simple disbeliever who has never had the message of Islam (That is the message of any prophet of Allah). He is not a kafir.

It is necessary for the kafir to have had the message conveyed comfortably to him. Then if he does not accept it and gets up to fight that message, then he is a kafir.

Every Jew or Hindu or a christian is not kafir. Please remember that even a Muslim ( so-called) can also be a kafir if he fights the person of any faith and oppresses him just because of the difference of faith then he is also a kafir. Any one who picks up a fight with any people just for the difference of belief (and no other reason) then that fighter will be labelled as a kafir.

Enmity is a must for some one to be called a kafir.**

 

[morning_star777]

mr.planten if your claim is true then why all muslims addressed non muslims as kafir(i didn’t ask the 1.3 billion ppl its true)?and in my area or my university my i met lots of muslim its legal you know cuz my country is muslim country and i am ex muslim.but all ppl whom i ever met all of them addressed non muslim as qafir.so wat do you think about it?maybe u don’t think all of them as kafir but ur nation think so&they give the reference of quran

 

[planten]

Although what I will say might sound discrimination, but that’s what Islam teach, read this from Quran:
(Quran 43:3-4):
“We have made it a Qur-an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom),And verily, it is in the Mother of the Book, in Our Presence, high (in dignity), full of wisdom.”
(Quran 13:37)
“Thus have We revealed it to be a judgment of authority in Arabic. Wert thou to follow their (vain) desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither protector nor defender against Allah.”
(Quran 46:12):
“And before this, was the Book of Musa as a guide and a mercy: and this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic tongue; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right.”

Even there are some Hadiths which claim that the language of Paradise is Arabic:
(E) (A)

However, our Islamic clerics here in Saudi Arabia won’t accept any Fatwa by non-Arabic speaking person, even when they meet to issue Fatwas, all the committee members should speak Arabic as their mother tongue language.

Moreover, I have learned and studied Quran, Hadith, Feqh, Tawheed, Tafseer, from my elementary school till the High school (in Arabic), so a total of 12 years of daily brainwashing, add to that the lectures of Mosques clerics between Maghreb prayer & Isha.

Therefore, Mr.tomshaikh, if you are really interesting in learning more about Islam, then you should come here to Saudi Arabia first to learn Arabic and then to learn the true Islam, and I will be glad to guide you if you decided to, maybe you can come here to perform Omra and I will meet you in Mecca, I also have some friends from India, they will be interesting to debate Christianity & Islam with you in Urdu language.

My flesh is still Muslim but my soul is with Lord Jesus:heart:.

All the posts which I have posted about Islam had authentic references, point me to one false claim.

**There is no need to refute your posts. They must all be as you are telling. Please remember that islam is not only in Arabia or Makkah. It must have departed from there now because there is no liberty to say anything. That is not Islam.

The very first problem against Islam is that some people will not allow any one to say anything. That is what happened when the prophet Muhammad arrived. He said “There is no god but Allah… and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah”. People opposed him and disturbed him, even told him not to preach that.

The prophet told the Makkans that they could say what they liked and he could say what he liked. But they did not agree. The opponents said, " We will say what we like but we will not allow you to say what you like." That is how the whole trouble started.

Now tell me, can you preach any subject peacefully in Makkah?? I hope not, Niether political nor spiritual. So what is there. It is compulsion. Do not go after those people in the mosques. They are divided into many branches (sects). Also, Sam, do not be in a hurry to discard islam. As a muslim, I have everything. I have Abraham, Joseph, Moses, Jesus, all of them. I have the bible too. I do not miss anything.

It is the bad interpretation of Islam that is creating problems for the muslims. It is like the saying of Jesus a.s. (about the pharisees) that “They niether enter the faith nor let any one enter it…” Something to that effect in bible NT. Wassalam.**

 

[Sam_777]

Also, Sam, do not be in a hurry to discard islam. As a muslim, I have everything. I have Abraham, Joseph, Moses, Jesus, all of them. I have the bible too. I do not miss anything.

No Muslims don’t have everything, they miss love & mercy.

 

[morning_star777]

yes bro sam_777 you are correct.muslim never love any1.they just can love muslims.ya they can love their parents,children,wife,brother sister but if all of them are muslims.but if any1 leave islam then muslim father try to kill his own son.so its clear that muslim is just muslim not human being.but we christian 1st a human then christian.cuz god sent laws for human.its the difference between a muslim and christian or all other non muslims

 

[swariffin]

** I dont believe it. There is nothing about belief ( Eimaan) in the word Kafir. The Kufr starts with disbelief. But it goes further to opposition and fighting with arms and money. There have been kafir in every age. i.e. in the time of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. Try to recognise them please. They were only those who were fighting against the men of God.

Every one who has not recited the Kalimah is not a Kafir. He may be a simple disbeliever who has never had the message of Islam (That is the message of any prophet of Allah). He is not a kafir.

It is necessary for the kafir to have had the message conveyed comfortably to him. Then if he does not accept it and gets up to fight that message, then he is a kafir.

Every Jew or Hindu or a christian is not kafir. Please remember that even a Muslim ( so-called) can also be a kafir if he fights the person of any faith and oppresses him just because of the difference of faith then he is also a kafir. Any one who picks up a fight with any people just for the difference of belief (and no other reason) then that fighter will be labelled as a kafir.

Enmity is a must for some one to be called a kafir.**

Dear Planten,

I do respect your definition of Kafir. That is one thing that shows the peaceful side of Islam. May all the muslims share your thought.

 

[morning_star777]

hope u can remember the WAR OF RIDDHA.when muhammed died then almost all pagan leaved islam,abu bakar declared war against them.then with sword&violence muslims back pagans to islam.so have u anything to say?i belive that you know the history.so if i claimed that ur religion spread with violence and still doing violence by the terrorist then?is it not the way of devil?its my challenge.if u have any logic then accept my challenge.neither surrender

 

[morning_star777]

planten if you have courage then accept my challenge.after it i will prove that all war of muhammad are inhuman.i will also discuss about badr,uhud khandak(trench)

 

[morning_star777]

my dear brother and friend swariffin,planten has no right to edit quran if he is true muslim.he hasn’t any right to explain quran in his own way.i respect you brother but wat do you think the verses of quran?its clear that all non muslims are qafir.so?i wish you will reply it.thanks.god bless you my brother