Mommy Cliques

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BLB_Oregon:
The school still needs your time, if you have it to give. Your parish probably has similar needs. If your home business allows, there are also usually daytime opportunities to volunteer that involve interaction with teachers and staff, rather than with other parents. If there is no way to volunteer within your school and parish without running afoul of their rudeness, there are many ministries and organizations in the wider world that need you.

When you quit, you may well be asked back onto all that stuff you do now, or asked to explain why you’re quitting. It’s not as if they’ve not been willing to take your time. If you’re asked, say, “I’m so sorry, but I’ve found other ways to volunteer that suit our family better, and frankly, even that takes up a little more time than I have to spare.” They are due no more explanation than that. (As in a clueless, “Other ways that suit you better? Like what?” needs only the reply, “I beg your pardon? Sorry, but as I just said, my volunteer time is spoken for.”)

If you’re not asked… great. Maybe they know how to take a hint. But do give time, if you have it to give. Volunteers are in such short supply. It would be a pity to lose that needlessly, on account of their bad behavior.

The ideal, though, is to bow out as quietly and unobtrusively as you can. You don’t want these women making life hard on your kids. Rather, you want your kids playing with their kids and their kids going home with rave reviews about how wonderful you are… and no pretext whatsoever for their mothers to put any brakes on that. Coals on their heads, my dear, hot searing coals on their heads.
I’ll just bow out quietly. I doubt anyone notices. If I’m asked to do something in the future I’ll do it if I feel like it and it is good for the school. I do want the best for the school that my children attend. I’m just done with the social end of it on my part.

My kids, btw, ages 10 and 12 are doing great. They have lots of friends, etc. They are the reason we are at the school anyway, so that is as it should be. Also, they are growing spiritually and are challenged academically, which is the whole reason for being there!! It’s just that whole mom/social thing that I can’t figure out. :whacky:
 
Island Oak said:
:clapping: It makes my blood boil when adults are this rude to others. I’m so sorry you were treated this way.

Thanks to you and everybody for all your kind comments! I can’t tell you how therapeutic it has been to post all my experiences here! I feel so much better about the whole thing now. 🙂
 
Little Mary:
Thanks to you and everybody for all your kind comments! I can’t tell you how therapeutic it has been to post all my experiences here! I feel so much better about the whole thing now. 🙂
Thank you for posting. Hearing all these stories makes me feel better about the times I’ve been treated badly and didn’t know why. It is sometimes hard not to take it personally, especially when they seem to find each other so likeable and have so much fun. It helped me to remember that these people are out there. Chances are we’re going to run into them now and again.

I hated that kind of thing when I was in the 5th grade–at least the boys would tell you to your face when you were on their black list!–and honestly, I was in college before I realized that most women grow out of it. That was a loss to me.

Here’s hoping you find the women friends that you deserve! 👍
 
Little Mary:
Apparently it was her birthday and they were all meeting at a sports for wings and beer. The second mom turned to me and said as much - but only to explain their plans. No invitation was extended.

I responded by saying “Oh Happy Birthday! I love that restaurant too! What time are you going?” “Oh we’re not sure yet” was the reply followed by “see ya later”.

If I had had the b**** to invite myself, there wasn’t even a window in which to do that.

Again, maybe I’m readingn too much into it. But there’s something to be said for the gut feeling. When you just know .

My summation is that, in their opinion, I don’t fit into their group.
Could be wrong, I admit.
Unbelievable. Just like being back in high school (at least it sounds like much of my senior year). :mad:

One would think that women would grow up and stop being idiots once they had children. Apparently not. I guess, just ignore them as much as you can. Help out at school, but don’t bother to go out of your way to be anything other than polite, and don’t let them dump jobs and responsibilities on you. You don’t need “friends” like that. No one does.

And check out your community center or library for meeting groups in your interests.
 
This is very ironic that we all are talking about mommy cliques and a few weeks ago there was a thread about church cliques. I have news for all of you…Cliques exist and they always. Here is some more news, as much as I like this forum, I find some people in this forum very cliquish. I have noticed the high posters seen to only talk to other high posters and the only way to get someone to respond to you is to say something controversial. Just track any thread and you will see what I mean.

Cliques are everywhere.
 
Try being a never-married single person in a parish. I finally left my old parish after being there 10 years and not having one Catholic friend to show for it, despite my having made efforts to become involved in the parish, join ministries such as Pro-Life and Christ Renews His Parish, volunteer, to the point of hosting a Christmas party in my apartment. When the lady at the rectory asked why I was leaving, here was my answer:

“It says in the Bible, ‘I was a stranger and you gave me no welcome’ … Well, I’ve been a stranger for 10 years.”

Have joined a new parish and gone to a couple of their Donut Sundays after Mass … the same pattern of simply being invisible despite my best efforts to be social and strike up conversations is starting up again.

So instead, I think after Mass it would be a far better use of my time to go horseback riding, or do nature / landscape photography … at least I get lots of positive feedback from people at the websites who appreciate the pictures I post.

As for mastda’s comment … Yes, I agree with you. Which is, again, why I’ve been spending virtually all my time on the photography websites, and spending far less time here. It’s not like anyone’s missed me here … and that, after I’ve been an active participant in which I’ve done my best to interact with people here with a personal touch.

~~ the phoenix
 
As long as a few have posted some criticism, I would like to piggyback on their comments to make another point: so many of the posts on this thread have done more to tear down these women who have excluded Little Mary than to build up Little Mary or help her draw closer to Christ. Over and over again, I have read disparaging comments about the “cliquey moms”: “desparate housewives,” “clueless,” “snobs,” “rude,” and the list goes on. And it seems like it was only in those type of comments that Mary took comfort!

I am not disputing anything Mary posted about the moms, or any of the others’ comments about them, but only Mary has even met them! And I just can’t see how you can square perseverating on what is bad about those women with your faith. I can’t think of anywhere in Scripture where rallying behind someone by criticising others is advocated. I can’t think of anywhere name-calling is advocated.
I love CAL and started reading the posts because I agreed to financially support them and decided to at least read them if I was paying for them. When I realized there were threads for family issues, I thought it might finally be a cyber-gathering place for faithful Cathlics, and in large part, the forums are. But as has been my experience in other Mom threads, women threads, and even Christian mom/women threads, eventually the Christian attitudes devolve and the environment can be more damaging to your faith than helpful.
I am not suggesting that Mary is supposed to suffer in silence or that the treatment she says she has received is Christian either, but I think the better route to have taken (and many did take it in their posts) was to help her with how she can deal with, accept, or resolve the problem, not be pitting her against them. It just doesn’t seem appropriate given this locale.
 
Little Mary:
I will definitely look into our HOA. We do have some nice neighbors that I just don’t know very well yet. Also picked up my flute again which is a great outlet for me.
Little Mary, we have a lot in common!! I also play the flute, and have started up a little again. Maybe you could tutor the band kids? That’s what I’m trying to get myself together to do. You may meet some nice moms that way!! It seems, when I was in school, that the band kids and moms were all very kind.
 
Hi, Little Mary! I noticed you are in Alabama - so am I - and I have witnessed a similar situation where I live. I moved to my current smallish city almost three years ago, and while I have been able to make friends here, they are, for the most part, people who did not grow up here. Where I live, the town has a long history of “old” families, but is close enough to a lot of industry that many of its residents have moved in from other places. My neighborhood is filled with white collar families who have homes just as nice (many nicer and all newer) as the homes of the “old” families, but where I live is still considered the “wrong side of the tracks.” It’s not that they are rude to us, it’s more like they figure if we haven’t always lived here then we won’t stay here long-term and there’s no point in getting to know us. It’s quite interesting, because the city is large enough to have two public high schools that the elementary and middle schools feed up to, but the one on my side of town is considered inferior by the “natives” (despite the fact that college admission scores are higher, there is less problem with drugs, etc., etc.) Being a native Alabamian, I think it was easier for me to get on here than many of my friends who moved in from other parts of the country. I have one friend in particular that cried for the first two years here, and another who was discouraged from volunteering at her children’s school. I wonder if you live in my town? 😉

All that to say…check to see if your town has a Newcomers Club. I found out about one here and it was a great place for me to meet new people. Our group has a monthly luncheon and lots of activities for the members throughout the month.
 
the phoenix:
Try being a never-married single person in a parish. I finally left my old parish after being there 10 years and not having one Catholic friend to show for it, despite my having made efforts to become involved in the parish, join ministries such as Pro-Life and Christ Renews His Parish, volunteer, to the point of hosting a Christmas party in my apartment. When the lady at the rectory asked why I was leaving, here was my answer:

“It says in the Bible, ‘I was a stranger and you gave me no welcome’ … Well, I’ve been a stranger for 10 years.”

Have joined a new parish and gone to a couple of their Donut Sundays after Mass … the same pattern of simply being invisible despite my best efforts to be social and strike up conversations is starting up again.

So instead, I think after Mass it would be a far better use of my time to go horseback riding, or do nature / landscape photography … at least I get lots of positive feedback from people at the websites who appreciate the pictures I post.

As for mastda’s comment … Yes, I agree with you. Which is, again, why I’ve been spending virtually all my time on the photography websites, and spending far less time here. It’s not like anyone’s missed me here … and that, after I’ve been an active participant in which I’ve done my best to interact with people here with a personal touch.
~~ the phoenix
Please note that the following is a personal observation and not a criticism of any particular individual: It appears that Catholics keep to themselves a lot more than other denominations. I attended a Catholic high school and my good friends were not Catholic. Today, I have 0 Catholic friends. Zero! Those I am closest to are believers of other denominations. Scary thought, but if I were in the hospital, the ones who I know would call, come by, worry and pray for me would be the non-catholics. The joke is that if you want to be accepted, go to a Baptist church, they’ll love you to death. I have found this to be true. In a nutshell, Catholics have the attitude of: you come to me. The others: what can we do for you? I am a cradle Catholic, yet people tell me I don’t act like a Catholic. What does that mean?! I’ll take it as a compliment. I also just left a clannish church and have registered as a member of a mega church 30+ miles away. Amazing that with 2,800 people, they are as friendly as they are. I told a friend that those Catholics were acting quite Protestant and we had a laugh over that. She told me I better not tell them! 🙂
 
There are some definite cliques where my children go to school and I too have sometimes felt the cold shoulder. I sometimes crave female companionship so desperately and wish I had a sister. It seems all the people I would like to get closer too, won’t because their sister is their best friend.

I learned “my place” one time when I approached a woman I considered my friend in the parking lot at pick up one day. Her daughter and mine have been friends for six years and her son is a friend to my twin boys, anyway, she was on the phone when I approached and said, "I have to go their is a parent here who is waiting to talk to me. Turns out she was planning a big keg party and was definitely not inviting me because I am a substance abuse counselor. I was hurt, but realized, I don’t want to be a part of her clique. They are late 30’s acting like early 20’s.

I do have friends there, but to date, none of my friendships are as deep as I would like. I do not think it is anyone’s fault but my own though. I am so busy with my family that there is only so much time for deeper friendships. I will have more time later to devote to this and I believe God will send wonderful friends into my life if I let Him at that time.
 
the phoenix:
So instead, I think after Mass it would be a far better use of my time to go horseback riding, or do nature / landscape photography … at least I get lots of positive feedback from people at the websites who appreciate the pictures I post.

As for mastda’s comment … Yes, I agree with you. Which is, again, why I’ve been spending virtually all my time on the photography websites, and spending far less time here. It’s not like anyone’s missed me here … and that, after I’ve been an active participant in which I’ve done my best to interact with people here with a personal touch.

~~ the phoenix
Phoenix and Mastda - I am so sorry you have been made to feel this way about these forums. I haven’t noticed cliques in these forums but I have read posts where I’ve wondered if some of the posters might know each other outside of these forums. If you’ve felt like anyone has been rude or whatever, I don’t think it was intentional.

To that end, the women I am complaining about in my situation might not be snubbing me intentionally. I just have a bad "gut"feeling about it.

Phoenix, I always remember you b/c I like your username and the way you sign it, with the ~~ before it…you were helpful to me when I was asking about digital cameras and you posted some beautiful pics that you took. I though you were so nice - and you still are 🙂 - thanks again for your help.

Mastda, I don’t know that we’ve ever “met” on another thread, but thanks for posting. You may have a point, I’ve just never noticed cliques here. Maybe too busy dealing with cliques outside the computer 😃 Cliques inside my computer too :eek: I can’t win! 😃

Why don’t we start out own un-clique thread - just for fun - you know that meaningless threads always attract tons of posts for whatever reason - it would be a fun way to get to know everyone better 😃 PM me if that’s a good idea!
 
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just5kids:
As long as a few have posted some criticism, I would like to piggyback on their comments to make another point: so many of the posts on this thread have done more to tear down these women who have excluded Little Mary than to build up Little Mary or help her draw closer to Christ. Over and over again, I have read disparaging comments about the “cliquey moms”: “desparate housewives,” “clueless,” “snobs,” “rude,” and the list goes on. And it seems like it was only in those type of comments that Mary took comfort!

I am not disputing anything Mary posted about the moms, or any of the others’ comments about them, but only Mary has even met them! And I just can’t see how you can square perseverating on what is bad about those women with your faith. I can’t think of anywhere in Scripture where rallying behind someone by criticising others is advocated. I can’t think of anywhere name-calling is advocated.
I love CAL and started reading the posts because I agreed to financially support them and decided to at least read them if I was paying for them. When I realized there were threads for family issues, I thought it might finally be a cyber-gathering place for faithful Cathlics, and in large part, the forums are. But as has been my experience in other Mom threads, women threads, and even Christian mom/women threads, eventually the Christian attitudes devolve and the environment can be more damaging to your faith than helpful.
I am not suggesting that Mary is supposed to suffer in silence or that the treatment she says she has received is Christian either, but I think the better route to have taken (and many did take it in their posts) was to help her with how she can deal with, accept, or resolve the problem, not be pitting her against them. It just doesn’t seem appropriate given this locale.
just5kids, I think I understand what you are trying to say but please know that none of these posts have pitted me against the women in my situation. I will continue to be nice in my day to day contact with them - I just had to make a mental decision not to let it upset me anymore.

I am still going to help them out if they ask me to bus kids somewhere b/c they are busy, or whatever. I’ll just stop expecting any sort of friendship to develop.

I do not mean to take comfort in the negative - I am, however, deeply moved that so many posters, including yourself, have taken the time to consider and respond to my situation. 🙂
 
:whacky:
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princz23:
I learned “my place” one time when I approached a woman I considered my friend in the parking lot at pick up one day. Her daughter and mine have been friends for six years and her son is a friend to my twin boys, anyway, she was on the phone when I approached and said, "I have to go their is a parent here who is waiting to talk to me. Turns out she was planning a big keg party and was definitely not inviting me because I am a substance abuse counselor. I was hurt, but realized, I don’t want to be a part of her clique. They are late 30’s acting like early 20’s.
A very similar situation happened to me when I approached one of these moms while they were on the phone. It was about a year ago and I didn’t see it. Did I mention I’m blonde?
:whacky:
 
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Giannawannabe:
Little Mary, we have a lot in common!! I also play the flute, and have started up a little again. Maybe you could tutor the band kids? That’s what I’m trying to get myself together to do. You may meet some nice moms that way!! It seems, when I was in school, that the band kids and moms were all very kind.
**Greetings fellow flautist!!! ** 👋

How long have you been playing? What’s your favorite style of music? What kind of flute do you have? Do you teach?

I have many, many favorites, but my latest “find” is Ian Anderson’s solo album entitled Rupi’s Dance If you haven’t already, you should listen to it!! Very flute-y!! 😃
 
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alsligh:
Hi, Little Mary! I noticed you are in Alabama - so am I - and I have witnessed a similar situation where I live. I moved to my current smallish city almost three years ago, and while I have been able to make friends here, they are, for the most part, people who did not grow up here. Where I live, the town has a long history of “old” families, but is close enough to a lot of industry that many of its residents have moved in from other places. My neighborhood is filled with white collar families who have homes just as nice (many nicer and all newer) as the homes of the “old” families, but where I live is still considered the “wrong side of the tracks.” It’s not that they are rude to us, it’s more like they figure if we haven’t always lived here then we won’t stay here long-term and there’s no point in getting to know us.
It’s not just that. Strangely enough, people who live in a community like that always wonder if they’re being judged by people who are coming in from elsewhere, people who have been places and done things. “I can’t imagine what she must think of us, she’s been here and there and we’ve spent our whole lives in little old Lake Wobegon. She must think we were all born in a barn.” This is doubly true for an accomplished person who arrives from elsewhere, rather than from a similar little place in the middle of nowhere. The hackles go up before the poor person opens their mouth.

Actually, Lake Wobegon is probably a fairly good analogy. Those places really do exist.

Still, even in the little places I am familiar with, one would *never *discuss a private party within earshot of people not invited. That is terribly rude. I’ve not been to the South, but it has been impressed upon me that it is a rare Southern lady who hasn’t been taught better manners than that.

Although we should see to it that everyone feels welcome, especially at parish events, it is not necessary that we like or choose to socialize with everyone in our parish. It is necessary that we treat others with respect. When our behavior falls below even the secular standard, that is a failure, plain and simple.
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just5kids:
As long as a few have posted some criticism, I would like to piggyback on their comments to make another point: so many of the posts on this thread have done more to tear down these women who have excluded Little Mary than to build up Little Mary or help her draw closer to Christ. Over and over again, I have read disparaging comments about the “cliquey moms”: “desparate housewives,” “clueless,” “snobs,” “rude,” and the list goes on. And it seems like it was only in those type of comments that Mary took comfort!

I am not disputing anything Mary posted about the moms, or any of the others’ comments about them, but only Mary has even met them! And I just can’t see how you can square perseverating on what is bad about those women with your faith. I can’t think of anywhere in Scripture where rallying behind someone by criticising others is advocated. I can’t think of anywhere name-calling is advocated.
I love CAL and started reading the posts because I agreed to financially support them and decided to at least read them if I was paying for them. When I realized there were threads for family issues, I thought it might finally be a cyber-gathering place for faithful Cathlics, and in large part, the forums are. But as has been my experience in other Mom threads, women threads, and even Christian mom/women threads, eventually the Christian attitudes devolve and the environment can be more damaging to your faith than helpful.
I am not suggesting that Mary is supposed to suffer in silence or that the treatment she says she has received is Christian either, but I think the better route to have taken (and many did take it in their posts) was to help her with how she can deal with, accept, or resolve the problem, not be pitting her against them. It just doesn’t seem appropriate given this locale.
I can’t speak about the other posters, but after the first few rounds of suggestions, it became fairly clear that she had tried everything she might reasonably be expected to try.

Might she be running roughshod over their feelings without letting us in on that? Certainly. But that hardly changes the bottom line. Once the group decided to reject her advances and treat her rudely, it is time she goes elsewhere for friendship.

Time and distance aren’t a bad solution in this case. No one suggested, for instance, that she find a parish with “better people.” The day may come when this will all be mended, and she should be open to that, but in the meantime, the poor woman needs some time away from the arena and a place where she can find her own friends. Otherwise, by the time the others come around, she’ll be less likely to have it in her to forgive them and more likely to respond with, “Oh, just save it!”
 
Little Mary said:
**Greetings fellow flautist!!! **👋

How long have you been playing? What’s your favorite style of music? What kind of flute do you have? Do you teach?

I have many, many favorites, but my latest “find” is Ian Anderson’s solo album entitled Rupi’s Dance If you haven’t already, you should listen to it!! Very flute-y!! 😃

I’ve played for, well, um, a REALLY long time:D I was in a flute choir for awhile, played for a lot of weddings, played in community bands, and tutored kids for years. I LOVE Mozart. My favorite artist has always been James Galway. I’ve seen him and Jean Pierre Rampal in concert. Never been a professional, but enjoyed playing. My kids are now entering band, and it’s gotten my interest going again. I have a Gemeinhardt flute. I also played piccolo in college.
Hey, got me thinking…is there are community band in your area? Maybe you could join?? I’ll find you a “clique” of friends yet!!!👍
 
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Giannawannabe:
I’ve played for, well, um, a REALLY long time:D I was in a flute choir for awhile, played for a lot of weddings, played in community bands, and tutored kids for years. I LOVE Mozart. My favorite artist has always been James Galway. I’ve seen him and Jean Pierre Rampal in concert. Never been a professional, but enjoyed playing. My kids are now entering band, and it’s gotten my interest going again. I have a Gemeinhardt flute. I also played piccolo in college.
Hey, got me thinking…is there are community band in your area? Maybe you could join?? I’ll find you a “clique” of friends yet!!!👍
You definitely have more experience than I do. I’ve never played for weddings or in a community band although I recently gave my name to a woman for possible weddings (she plays cello).

I taught beginners in college b/c my flute teacher was so overwhelmed she gave the beginners to some of her senior players to get them started…

Love Mozart - Koncert D Dur is one I’ve played in recitals. It’s fun to play.

Love Galway and Rampal. Do you have the CD by Claude Bolling featuring Jean Pierre Rampal entitled ‘Suite for Flute and Jazz Piano’? It’s great. Also check out Rupi’s Dance by Ian Anderson. (Ian is the Jethro in Jethro Tull - this solo album is very grow up though!)

Mine’s a Gemeinhardt as well! Faithful friend!! 👍
 
Dear wacky&wonderful:

Yes, I can relate to what you say … even from yet another personal experience that occurred just this morning when I met a friendly little old lady in a restaurant. I hoped against hope that she was a Catholic and could steer me to a good parish … but she turned out to be Presbyterian. She very courteously invited me to join her church. Of course I could not take such a step … When it comes down to a choice between having friends in this world or having Jesus as my only Catholic friend, then I choose Jesus and the Catholic Church. But on the way to my table, I let her know that in fact, many Catholics believe that Protestants are friendlier than Catholics are.

I’ve been treated in a far kindlier manner down through the years by a Jehovah’s Witness, a Methodist, and even a purple-haired pagan up at the university where I study Japanese, than by the fellow Catholics I come into contact with on a daily basis.

I would LOVE to have a Catholic friend, but God must have His reasons for keeping them from me.

~~ the phoenix
 
Dear Little Mary:

Thank you for your kind words. Your idea to start an Un-clique Thread is absolutely awesome !!! :cool: 👍

See you there …

~~ the phoenix
 
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