Mommy Cliques

[netmilsmom]

Island Oak:

I was responding to comments in several of the preceeding posts (just don’t know how to quote them all in 1 post). I don’t know where “SSC&M” is, but I’m sorry it hasn’t been a great fit for you.

SS Cyril and Methodius, my parish is fantastic! I am very blessed to be there. My neighborhood, that’s another story.

 

[netmilsmom]

I don’t agree there. I know many a good christian home school mom/wife who would not agree with your view of “hubby being head of the house”. For that matter, I know many a good christian home school father/husband who wouldn’t agree with it either.

That’s so sad.
I guess I have been blessed with knowing Bible based Christians who can spout the verses to back it.

 

[Little_Mary]

I really love all of the posts here. I have already decided to step away from my situation and take a deep breath. If nothing else, I have had more time for prayer and my family. My biggest vice these days is wine and these forums

Some of the previous posts have suggested that the people I am dealing with probably don’t realize how I feel. I agree. It’s just that it’s a toucy subject to bring up. No matter. I’m leaving well enough alone.

I am still friendly, I still volunteer, I still pick up kids for other moms so they can go out with other moms - no big deal.

Another suggestion was (and I’m going on memory here) to offer to help someone else in need, or to find out with other people’s interests are. Well, let me tell you a story…

One of the moms that I am trying (unsuccessfully) to get to know better had found a new house to move into. They put their present house up for sale and were very happy and excited about their new house. That was almost a year ago. They never did sell their present house and just recently had to let the new house go and make the difficult decision to stay in their old house.

I felt bad for her because that would be disapointing for anybody. I called another mom in that “group” and suggested that we throw her a surprise “house warming party for the old house” just to help cheer her and support her. I explained to this other mom that she probably knew better than I who to include in this get together. She said OK, good idea, let me call a few people and I’ll call you back.

That was three weeks ago.

Still waiting.

That Jimmy Buffett song “If the Phone Doesn’t Ring, It’s Me” comes to mind.

 

[Princess_Abby]

Little Mary:

I really love all of the posts here. I have already decided to step away from my situation and take a deep breath. If nothing else, I have had more time for prayer and my family. My biggest vice these days is wine and these forums

Some of the previous posts have suggested that the people I am dealing with probably don’t realize how I feel. I agree. It’s just that it’s a toucy subject to bring up. No matter. I’m leaving well enough alone.

I am still friendly, I still volunteer, I still pick up kids for other moms so they can go out with other moms - no big deal.

Another suggestion was (and I’m going on memory here) to offer to help someone else in need, or to find out with other people’s interests are. Well, let me tell you a story…

One of the moms that I am trying (unsuccessfully) to get to know better had found a new house to move into. They put their present house up for sale and were very happy and excited about their new house. That was almost a year ago. They never did sell their present house and just recently had to let the new house go and make the difficult decision to stay in their old house.

I felt bad for her because that would be disapointing for anybody. I called another mom in that “group” and suggested that we throw her a surprise “house warming party for the old house” just to help cheer her and support her. I explained to this other mom that she probably knew better than I who to include in this get together. She said OK, good idea, let me call a few people and I’ll call you back.

That was three weeks ago.

Still waiting.

That Jimmy Buffett song “If the Phone Doesn’t Ring, It’s Me” comes to mind.

So call her back. Be casual and just ask if she’d given the idea any more thought, if not, fine, you just wanted to know before dropping off the super-cute housewarming gift you picked up recently for the aforementioned Mom. Then go do it, include a nice card and explain what your reasoning was behind the gift–I’m sure it will make her smile. Even if you don’t get to go to a party, you still get to share your thoughtfulness and cheer up a would-be friend. Don’t make nice gestures dependent on someone else’s approval or cooperation!

 

[Little_Mary]

Princess_Abby:

So call her back. Be casual and just ask if she’d given the idea any more thought, if not, fine, you just wanted to know before dropping off the super-cute housewarming gift you picked up recently for the aforementioned Mom. Then go do it, include a nice card and explain what your reasoning was behind the gift–I’m sure it will make her smile. Even if you don’t get to go to a party, you still get to share your thoughtfulness and cheer up a would-be friend. Don’t make nice gestures dependent on someone else’s approval or cooperation!

I left her a couple messages to no avail. I don’t think I’ll be hearing from her.

However, the idea to drop off a gift anyway is a good idea. It would cheer her up. Even though I’m not in the loop I can tell she’s a little down. Thanks.

P.S. What would be a super cute house warming gift??

 

[Giannawannabe]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Ya know what I can’t stand the most. Going into a group of women who are into bashing hubbies (he comes home late, he doesn’t help out, he doesn’t listen when I complain) and those who LOVE ditching their kids.

Maybe one of the reasons why I don’t care how many “girlfriends” I have is because my hubby and my kids are my BEST friends. If I’m paying for a sitter (like I ever have) I would go out with my hubby, not for a “girl’s night out” to some coffee shop to pay 4 bucks for a cup of Joe. And actually, if I’m paying to go out, I would rather do something WITH my kids. I don’t care if you want to, but no one should be offended if I don’t.

I don’t have too many years before my blessings are off to college or Mommies themselves. I’m living it up now.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I am not one to bash my hubby or complain about my kids. I think my kids are great and I don’t mind running them here or there, etc. because THAT"S MY JOB!!! I have found that when a bunch of women get together, they want to COMPLAIN!!! About money, husbands, kids, teachers at school, their neighbors, etc. Usually I have nothing to say when the conversation turns south like that. It’s funny. My dh and I have struggled financially for years. We have old cars, our house is small and needs work, we have had doozies for neighbors, and struggled with infertility issues, miscarriages, etc. I’ll sit in on a gathering with women dressed to the hilt, with tons of money, beautiful/expensive homes, able to be stay-at-home moms, etc. etc. and all they do is complain.
In addition, conversations with groups of women seem to also turn to sex talk. Has anyone else experienced this? It seems women feel free to talk about how much or little they “do it” and all kinds of intimate details when in a group setting. I simply have no interest in discussing these types of things. So, I sort of just sit there and try to retain custody of my thoughts
I have some nice acquaintances and a few close friends. When I’m with them, we talk nice. Perhaps that’s why I’m not the most “popular” person. I honestly don’t think some women know what to do with me. Perhaps this is your “problem” Little Mary??? Are you too happy and don’t complain enough???

 

[netmilsmom]

Giannawannabe:

Are you too happy and don’t complain enough???

I think you’re right. Misery loves company.

Many women today don’t want to hear, “Your husband has done so much for you. What have you done for him?” They shut down.

I have told ladies that I follow Dr. Laura’s Care and Feeding of Husbands.

Some have dismissed it, some have said that their husband wanted them to read it and they won’t. They don’t need “self-help” books (but are on the latest diet fad).
I’m not subservient but I sure do appreciate that my husband works so I can homeschool. We don’t have much but a nice house and two old cars, God’s love and each other.

 

[Giannawannabe]

sigh It is an irony that women, imho, can be far more brutally cruel than men. Females can be vicious to each other. Don’t know that home schooling stops that though.

In my homeschooling days, I found that there was a different type of “cliqueness”. I’m still friends with many of these moms and their kids are still friends with my kids. Wonderful families for the most part. However, there is a segment of homeschool populations that are just plain snobby. It especially came out when my dh and I made the very thoughtful and prayerful decision to put the kids in school-------:bigyikes: !!!

 

[netmilsmom]

Little Mary:

I left her a couple messages to no avail. I don’t think I’ll be hearing from her.

However, the idea to drop off a gift anyway is a good idea. It would cheer her up. Even though I’m not in the loop I can tell she’s a little down. Thanks.

P.S. What would be a super cute house warming gift??

Jewish tradition…
Bread- that you’ll always have food
Salt- that you’ll always have spice in your life
Wine- so you will never thirst
it was the way Malki Tzedek greeted Abraham - (source: Genesis 14:18)

Then I add “Bag-O-Salad”, spaghetti and sauce. It’s dinner.

 

[Giannawannabe]

Little Mary:

I left her a couple messages to no avail. I don’t think I’ll be hearing from her.

However, the idea to drop off a gift anyway is a good idea. It would cheer her up. Even though I’m not in the loop I can tell she’s a little down. Thanks.

P.S. What would be a super cute house warming gift??

My brother gave us a bottle of nice wine to age until we paid off the mortgage. Perhaps you could also bring her a dinner. Tell her that you had planned to do that when she moved into her house, but she seemed to need a little pick me up, so you made her one anyway. Include some of those cool Pampered Chef items!!!

 

[netmilsmom]

Giannawannabe:

In my homeschooling days, I found that there was a different type of “cliqueness”. I’m still friends with many of these moms and their kids are still friends with my kids. Wonderful families for the most part. However, there is a segment of homeschool populations that are just plain snobby. It especially came out when my dh and I made the very thoughtful and prayerful decision to put the kids in school-------:bigyikes: !!!

Ack!
I too shy away from Militant Homeschooler. Those who state that schools are “child abuse”.
My belief is, whatever works for your kids. Schools didn’t work for my kids academically but are great for Specials. They do Gym, Music and Art at the local school.
But if Cyril’s gets a school, they will be in so fast (and mommy goes to work to pay for it) their little heads will spin!

 

[Giannawannabe]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

But if Cyril’s gets a school, they will be in so fast (and mommy goes to work to pay for it) their little heads will spin!

LOL---- I know many who feel the same!!!

Little Mary,

How are things going? Especially with the friend who was planning on moving, but things fell through?

 

[Little_Mary]

Giannawannabe:

LOL---- I know many who feel the same!!!

Little Mary,

How are things going? Especially with the friend who was planning on moving, but things fell through?

I finally got a hold of the other mom I had contacted to help plan come kind of house warming for the mom who was trying to move. She was ever so sorry for not calling me back but said that she talked to someone else and decided a party would not be a good idea because the house-move-mom always got so sad whenever anybody brought it up.

They all know her better than I do so maybe that is so. I’ll never know for sure.

Anyhoo, it’s great to have all of you guys on this forum. It’s a great place to vent!!

 

[Little_Mary]

Well I just got back from picking the kids up from school - that is when I see most of these women, waiting for the bell to ring…My car window was down and I overheard a rather lively conversation between three of them, the moving-newhouse-mom included…

I heard things like, OK, we’ll be there around 615 to which one of them responded loudly but good naturedly, “don’t you dare come before 630. …” and “…I’ll make that cream cheese dip…” and “…can’t drink too much…lose weight…” lots of laughs and jokes, etc.

When they were finished, one of them walked over to me (we are on a committee together) to ask a committee question - one of the other women followed her - we settled out business and they continued their conversation right there next to my car.

Apparently it was her birthday and they were all meeting at a sports for wings and beer. The second mom turned to me and said as much - but only to explain their plans. No invitation was extended.

I responded by saying “Oh Happy Birthday! I love that restaurant too! What time are you going?” “Oh we’re not sure yet” was the reply followed by “see ya later”.

If I had had the b**** to invite myself, there wasn’t even a window in which to do that.

Again, maybe I’m readingn too much into it. But there’s something to be said for the gut feeling. When you just know .

My summation is that, in their opinion, I don’t fit into their group.
Could be wrong, I admit.

The only reason this is difficult is because these are the mothers of the kids that my kids socialize with and go to school with. These are the ones that cross my path everyday and vice versa. These are the ones that, in other cities I’ve lived in, I’ve become friends with by default and formed some great friendships.

However in this city, it’s just not happening. Strangest thing I’ve ever experienced.

I’ve got two arms, two legs and all my teeth. I wonder if I should change my deodorant

 

[ConcernCatholic]

Little Mary:

If I had had the b**** to invite myself, there wasn’t even a window in which to do that.

Again, maybe I’m readingn too much into it. But there’s something to be said for the gut feeling. When you just know .

My summation is that, in their opinion, I don’t fit into their group.
Could be wrong, I admit.

The only reason this is difficult is because these are the mothers of the kids that my kids socialize with and go to school with. These are the ones that cross my path everyday and vice versa. These are the ones that, in other cities I’ve lived in, I’ve become friends with by default and formed some great friendships.

However in this city, it’s just not happening. Strangest thing I’ve ever experienced.

I’ve got two arms, two legs and all my teeth. I wonder if I should change my deodorant

Don’t beat yourself up over this. I am sure that your gut feeling is correct. I live in Texas and it is that way every where you go. The ‘good ole boy (girl)’ system is alive and well. In Texas, if you don’t have something to do with football (a cheerleader, player, marching band), then you are nobody. When my husband and I go places outside of the south, we actually fit in and have a great time. As long as we are in Texas, we can’t seem to find a place to fit in. The sitcom “King of the Hill” isn’t that far from the truth.

 

[crystal]

This thread is very interesting to me. I am quite social myself and I can completely relate to what you all are saying. I noticed when I was little that I usually preferred to hang out with the boys and men at social gatherings whenever there was gender separation. I don’t like petty small talk either. The guys were usually more laid back and more interesting. However, my best friends have almost always been women.

I don’t fit in with cliques either. I get bored when everyone is the same. I’d rather be alone than in a bad relationship so I don’t get into the complaing thing either.

I’ve noticed in my life that I make a good friend out of about every 200 people. I believe that this is because I value being authentic over being fake. How many of those cliquey women do you think are molding their personality to fit in with the group? I sometimes ponder that. You hear about people (usually women) who wake up one day and realize they don’t know who they are. I think that’s because they’ve “sold their souls” so to speak. In a loveless marriage, trying to fit in and ignoring their true nature etc…

I always thought you couldn’t be too outgoing just like you can’t be too thin in our culture. But someone on here brought up the idea that being outgoing could turn some people off. That makes sense! I may have done that without realizing it. I also believe in striving for integrity. But the other day on “Starting Over” (a reality show I watch) a woman was saying how people with alot of integrity make her nervous. Maybe I do that to people too! Interesting realizations. But I know God made me the way I am for a good reason and I’m not going to change those things about myself so I fit in better. It does help me realize why I may get the responses I do sometimes though.

Suddenly, I’m feeling alot better about not fitting into certain cliques. I think the people who come to this site are authentic and full of integrity and that explains why I enjoy it here. I still can’t get over how supportive and knowledgable people are here about handling difficult people and situations. I find the people here to be interesting and accepting.

Little Mary, I hope you find solace with this situation. You are definitely not alone and my guess is that you’re a cut above those cliquey people in your town. As one person suggested, you could finally fit in and end up realizing that those people are too shallow for you. That happened to me in highschool when I became a cheerleader!

And as far as making friends with people who suddenly have to know your every thought and move, all I can say is :bigyikes:

These lyrics by Phish fit:
It’s easy sometimes when you just coast along
But like it or not something always seems to go wrong
Sometimes people build you up just so they can knock you down
Sometimes they will have you there ’cause they need someone around

Perhaps you’ll receive invitations for tea
Perhaps you’ll laugh and make them all smile
Or maybe you’ll join them ’cause it had to be
Perhaps you’ll forget you forgot for awhile

Birds of a feather are flocking outside
Like whippets they dance in a curly-queue dance
Of pulses and ringing and campfire chants
Of ritual drumming although at first glance
You thought you could run but you won’t take a chance

It’s not an experience if they can’t bring someone along
They hang on emotions they bottle inside
They peck at the ground
And strut out of stride

 

[my_agatha]

spiritblows:

LOL, I sure was a naive idiot back then!

That comment would be why no one bothered to ask you anything.

No one wants to be told they’re a “naive idiot.”

 

[BLB_Oregon]

A few possibilities come to mind.

While it is possible that you have some general social faults that you aren’t aware of, and those are killing you, I wouldn’t bet that way. Your kids are making friends and you have been socially successful elsewhere. This is the kind of thing that is passed down from one generation to the next. Unless they’re very sensitive, your “successful” kids would have let you in on your faults by now. Kids aren’t shy about sharing this kind of information.

There is the possibility that for whatever reason, the other women have decided that they are too good for you or that you think you are too good for them. Maybe you even came in and took someone’s “identity” by doing “their thing” that they were always best at, and did it far better than they ever did or could. Maybe they are jealous that you play an instrument or are able to volunteer for so many things and still always look great. Maybe your kids are super jocks or super students. That comes under, “You can’t teach a pig to sing. You’ll just frustrate yourself and annoy the pig.”

There is the possibility that there are local customs (what I call “invisible flaming hoops”) that you are running over roughshod without knowing it. Kind of like above, but something you could change, if you only knew about it. How you find that out is another thing altogether. Maybe one of the older ladies could tell you. (I have found them more likely to be disarmingly frank than those in my own age group.) After three years, you’ll have to change your ways for quite awhile before you’re forgiven, if then. People who care about that kind of thing tend to hold grudges.

It may be that you are in one of those little enclaves where everyone is from a family that got there in 1880. They don’t necessarily dislike you, they just have their dance card filled for the next several generations. No offense meant, you understand.

In the end, though, it’s like dating. There’s not a scraggly horse in the world but that you can find a scraggly bush to tie him to. You don’t have to have lots of friends. One or two will do fine. In some areas, women have lots of friends and do things in big groups. In others, the connections are fairly distant, except for a few close friends or relatives.

My most charitable guess is that these women operate in the region of having only a few close friends, and they have found their one or two. These “groups” of two to four close friends socialize together in larger groups, but “singles” are viewed with some trepidation. A woman without friends may seem so needy that they are afraid that once they include you, they will never have the option of leaving you out without feeling guilty about it. If you look the situation over and find that to be the case, try not to take it personally. Look elsewhere for your social group.

Once you have found your one or two or three friends, your group can invite their group. The “old groups” are likely to find that arrangement less intimidating. Or, more likely, you’ll be just fine with those few, and the heck with the ones who missed their chance!

Those are the most charitable guesses I can manage. Considering the birthday incident… extremely charitable. If I had to place a bet, which I base only on the little you’ve told us… these women are proud of their little clique and are rude enough to flaunt it or else they have cooked up some reason to want to hurt your feelings.

A distant third is that their mothers never taught them better manners–by this I mean the women who talked directly to you about an event to which you were not invited. Once they did that, politeness demanded that they either invite you or offer up a really good reason why you couldn’t be included and then look for their first opportunity to include you another time. (If you think such an “invitation” is proffered for that reason only, it is best to turn it down unless pressed, BTW. If they’re really polite, they’ll do everything short of forcing you to go.) No sour grapes intended, but if they’re that rude to those outside the group, chances are that they’re catty and rude within it, too.

Keep a polite distance from anyone who has been so pointedly and directly rude to you. If they make any overture to mend the fence, graciously accept, but otherwise, shake their dust from your feet. Let your kids play together, be willing to work together, but give up on initiating a closer connection. If anyone asks, just say, “I just get the feeling that they don’t care for me.” As for close friends, look elsewhere. I would hope that someday that fence can be mended, and I do not mean to hold a grudge, but don’t make an opening for them to find a more intolerable way to send the message. It doesn’t do anyone any good.

 

[Giannawannabe]

Little Mary:

Well I just got back from picking the kids up from school - that is when I see most of these women, waiting for the bell to ring…My car window was down and I overheard a rather lively conversation between three of them,
When they were finished, one of them walked over to me (we are on a committee together) to ask a committee question - one of the other women followed her - we settled out business and they continued their conversation right there next to my car.
Apparently it was her birthday and they were all meeting at a sports for wings and beer. The second mom turned to me and said as much - but only to explain their plans. No invitation was extended.
I responded by saying “Oh Happy Birthday! I love that restaurant too! What time are you going?” “Oh we’re not sure yet” was the reply followed by “see ya later”.

I’ve got two arms, two legs and all my teeth. I wonder if I should change my deodorant

Little Mary,
My heart goes out to you. Honestly, that is soooooo mean. I’m tellin’ ya…these ladies are just plain cliquey and probably have been that way since junior high. Blech! Who’d want to be friends with them anyway. I think you made your last ditch effort with those women. Carry on…pray for a nice friend or two. I wish you were nearby…I’d invite you out for coffee and we could chat.

 

[just5kids]

Little Mary, I have a somewhat different take. I hope you will humor me.
I think being too eager or familiar can be a social liability in the minds of some. As for me, I don’t think I would jump in and try to invite myself along, just because I wasn’t included in the first place and I would be afraid I would come off passive-aggresive. But if you would like to make an effort at a friendship, why not get the birthday mom a little treat and a birthday card, and give it to her sweetly in car pool line tomorrow? It would be so charming and thoughtful.
I have failed to reach out to a lot of people in the last few years in my new home. I gravitated to moms who were familar, with whom I fit in, and I had lots of internal angst about moms I hadn’t yet reached out to (usually in classes of my younger children) but who had formed their own clique. Without me! Imagine! Surely they were snobs! But this year I resolved to try to get to know some better, especially those whom I most considered aloof. I have made more friends and surprised myself when I learned that they were so wonderful all along. One idea: I had a Christmas caroling party and invited just about everyone in the kids’ classes. We had a great showing, who can resist caroling, and it was an easy affair for us: cocoa and minimal sweets. So I could be at my home where I am most comfortable in a casual event to try to get to know some better.
Just my thoughts. A different take.