A
Ahimsa
Guest
Yes, the shooter of Dr Tiller, for instance.
Moral issue of going to a VERY wiccan house and a VERY wiccan "family" friend
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A
Ahimsa
Guest
How are you defining “witchcraft”?
H
Howard_me
Guest
Anything that uses spells or magic. Powers that are supernatural, and not performed by God.
God clearly stated that these things are forbidden…and He has NEVER taken that away. Medicine is not magic or spells, and it does not call on powers to heal.
God does not use magic, and He forbids any use of it.
I am sure that there are better explanations, and I am sure that my explanation is probably inadequate…however, anyone not trying to find loopholes to fit their own agenda can clearly understand it.
A
AHapka
Guest
Another explanation might be calling on any spirits besides the Holy Spirit. What do you think?
J
Jesus_N_Cherie
Guest
I would certainly agree…but in the case of magic, even the Holy Spirit would never be involved.
J
Jack17
Guest
Does true magic even exists? Where real things actually happen? Or is it just a bunch of silly thoughts going through your head with no other purpose than like a day dream.
S
Silvereel
Guest
There is some ‘magic’ as we know from the Sacred Scripture… it’s just a force Satan tries to use to corrupt us. That said, most people who say they have ‘magic’ are either just pulling your leg or terribly misled
S
Silvereel
Guest
Now, I don’t mean to offend you, but frankly you cannot be Christian and a ‘witch’…
Deuteronomy 18:11-12 “…casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you”
Exodus 22:18 “… Wizards thou shalt not suffer to live…”
Micah 5.11 “And I will destroy the cities of thy land, and will throw down all thy strong holds, and I will take away sorceries out of thy hand, and there shall be no divinations in thee.”
You see, ‘magic’ can only come from Satan, and not from Our Blessed Lord. On the other hand, God certainly does give us powers and the ability to perform miracles… but we do not need to delve in witch craft to do it. We must only ask God and have faith.
J
Jesus_N_Cherie
Guest
Unfortunately, true magic does exist…which is why God warns us against it so strongly. Satan plants seeds of doubt about its existance, and his own existance in order for us not to take it or him serious. Once he convinces us of its nonexistance, he can ensnare us.
J
Jack17
Guest
What if there’s a converted wiccan to catholic, she was a powerful witch and the real deal. She quit but one day there was a car accident about to happen with two cars full of families. The only way she could prevent this is through magic and channeling good spirits to stop the cars. Like I said the top witch. Should she used her magic or watch them both die and crash in front of her? What would you do with those powers? That’s like 10 lives there.
S
StrawberryJam
Guest
He let his people use it.
I dont have my list handy, but the first one I can remember is casting lots for a new apostle. I believe there are at least two other examples of it being used without his objection. One in Genesis too. Not to mention the divining rod.
P
Palm_Tree
Guest
What if there’s a converted Jedi to Catholic, she was a powerful Jedi and the real deal. She quit but one day there was a car accident about to happen with two cars full of families. The only way she could prevent this is through her Jedi powers to stop the cars. Like I said the top Jedi. Should she used her Jedi powers or watch them both die and crash in front of her? What would you do with those powers? That’s like 10 lives there.
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Silvereel
Guest
Casting lots has nothing to do with magic…
Now, in answer to Jack… while ‘witches’ may believe in good spirits and good magic, it doesn’t exist. Magic is an entirely evil force that is not from God, and any faithful Catholic should avoid it. It doesn’t save lives, it destroys them - and souls.
That being said, while we’re on this subject, I think people need to better understand the difference between fantasy magic and real magic… too many people out there who go nuts at the mere mention of ‘magic’, even when it’s just say an… illusion show, or a fantasy story.
Now, in answer to Jack… while ‘witches’ may believe in good spirits and good magic, it doesn’t exist. Magic is an entirely evil force that is not from God, and any faithful Catholic should avoid it. It doesn’t save lives, it destroys them - and souls.
That being said, while we’re on this subject, I think people need to better understand the difference between fantasy magic and real magic… too many people out there who go nuts at the mere mention of ‘magic’, even when it’s just say an… illusion show, or a fantasy story.
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Palm_Tree
Guest
Count me in the group that doesn’t believe that magic is an evil force because I don’t believe that magic even exists. I think it’s all superstition, and superstition is a sin according to CCC 2111.
S
Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
Casting lots ain’t magic. Even the Church doesn’t forbid games of chance.
D
Deo_Volente
Guest
Grace & Peace!
Just a quick word–casting lots is a form of divination, the technical term being sortilege. Moreover, Acts clearly indicates the divinatory context–prayer for revelation of God’s will followed by the casting of lots.
This is no game of chance. The apostles didn’t choose Matthias because he won at blackjack. This is an act of divination. Casting of lots for divinatory purposes is found throughout the Bible (see Samuel consulting his stones when presented with the sons of Jesse). Some would argue that the Urim and Thummim of the high priest were used for divinatory purposes as well.
The line between magic and religion is often a very fine one–often the spiritual technologies used (rites/practices) are similar if not identical. For more information, read the Malleus Maleficarum (a manual for witch-hunters) on what constituted in the eyes of the church a “Lawful Enchanter.” Interesting stuff.
Before throwing up our hands in horror and making generalizations about what is or is not acceptable religious practice and what is or is not magic, it may be best to understand what the catechism is defining as magic and what it is guarding the faithful against. You’ll find I think that it involves–1) exaltation of the individual will over the will of God; 2) forcing supernatural forces to do one’s will or employing preternatural forces for the same purpose; 3) necromancy; 4) denial of free will through giving tacit approval to fatalism. These four practices are generally not smiled upon.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is grace and mercy! Deo gratias!
Just a quick word–casting lots is a form of divination, the technical term being sortilege. Moreover, Acts clearly indicates the divinatory context–prayer for revelation of God’s will followed by the casting of lots.
This is no game of chance. The apostles didn’t choose Matthias because he won at blackjack. This is an act of divination. Casting of lots for divinatory purposes is found throughout the Bible (see Samuel consulting his stones when presented with the sons of Jesse). Some would argue that the Urim and Thummim of the high priest were used for divinatory purposes as well.
The line between magic and religion is often a very fine one–often the spiritual technologies used (rites/practices) are similar if not identical. For more information, read the Malleus Maleficarum (a manual for witch-hunters) on what constituted in the eyes of the church a “Lawful Enchanter.” Interesting stuff.
Before throwing up our hands in horror and making generalizations about what is or is not acceptable religious practice and what is or is not magic, it may be best to understand what the catechism is defining as magic and what it is guarding the faithful against. You’ll find I think that it involves–1) exaltation of the individual will over the will of God; 2) forcing supernatural forces to do one’s will or employing preternatural forces for the same purpose; 3) necromancy; 4) denial of free will through giving tacit approval to fatalism. These four practices are generally not smiled upon.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is grace and mercy! Deo gratias!
S
StrawberryJam
Guest
I thought there was an earlier passage where it mentioned they were to pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance about chosing the replacement. I don’t see that they did that, and instead chose the method of casting lots. Which, I think may be a warning that it was a mistake to do it that way because we never hear about this Matthias again. That is strange to me.
Also the divining rod. And, that thing in Genesis with the cup.
And, the curse a priest can preform on a woman.
S
Silvereel
Guest
Who is to say that the Holy Spirit did not guide them as they cast lots, giving them the result that He desired?
S
StrawberryJam
Guest
If they had prayed to the Holy Spirit, why would they need to cast the lots at all?
Where was their faith in getting an answer directly from the Holy Spirit?
Can we cast lots today? Why or why not?
D
Deo_Volente
Guest
Grace & Peace!
Regarding casting lots, many do–flipping a coin is a similar form of divination. Whether or not it’s generally permissible, though, would, I would argue, depend entirely on context. In short, though, I wouldn’t generally recommend it. Nor would I generally condemn it. The context in which it was practiced in the Scriptures does not reveal a sort of will-nilly appeal to divinatory practices. There are specific contexts, specific situations, and specific sorts of people who perform these gestures. I think this specificity is important and revealing.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is grace and mercy! Deo gratias!
Strawberry, the act of divination in this context is an act attempting to discern the will of God. The prayer that the apostles prayed (beginning in Acts 1: 24) reveals this clearly. The prayer and the sortilege are not separate events, but part of the same spiritual gesture.If they had prayed to the Holy Spirit, why would they need to cast the lots at all?
Where was their faith in getting an answer directly from the Holy Spirit?
Can we cast lots today? Why or why not?
Regarding casting lots, many do–flipping a coin is a similar form of divination. Whether or not it’s generally permissible, though, would, I would argue, depend entirely on context. In short, though, I wouldn’t generally recommend it. Nor would I generally condemn it. The context in which it was practiced in the Scriptures does not reveal a sort of will-nilly appeal to divinatory practices. There are specific contexts, specific situations, and specific sorts of people who perform these gestures. I think this specificity is important and revealing.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is grace and mercy! Deo gratias!
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