B
buffalo
Guest
This human (who you refer to as a colony) has DNA that is unique. At that point the life of a human being begins. The only difference is maturity and where it lives.
- Status
L
larsegarots
Guest
That is a matter of opinion.
Once again, I think God would rather have us use the left over cells to improve the lives of his creatures than to throw those cells away.
B
buffalo
Guest
The DNA is not unique?
po18guy
Well-known member
Should you have been killed so that my illness “might” have a hope for cure? And, since these embryos are waiting to be thrown away, the problem began with the morality of their creation. However, human life is not static. It forever progresses until it ceases. So, considering 100 cells to be non-human, even though the DNA can be mapped, opens the door to the harvesting of, not only cells, but whole organs from those also deemed less worthy - like adult prisoners in China.
Y
YADA
Guest
But what is it to be human … we are embodied spirits … that implies that the spirit [soul] comes into existance first … that you fail to recognize the humanity does not take away the personhood that is alive in those 100 cells … they are nothing less than “human” in that the DNA is human and nothing else …
what you are arguing is that personhood begins at some later point … by what or at what time do you define that point to be? … When the child begins to look like what you think a human should look like? At 2 weeks or 7 weeks …
My grandaughter [now age 2 1/2] was nearly lost at 7 weeks in utero … goin in for an ultrsound my daughter was told she had about an 90% chance of loosing the child … after the ultrasound he doctor stated that the baby’s heart was so strong he figured her chances of surviving were 80% … and survive she did … 
Many would not consider a child at 7 weeks gestation truly human and being. I have heard children at this age referred to as just a “blob of cells” [just as dismissively as you do] …
We know that through time that point of [or what defines] humanity has been used to justify the unjustifiable … some races were less than human [african negroes and various indigenous peoples] were enslaved because they were not truly persons … The Nazi’s and holocaust against jews, christians, homosexuals, the disabled, etc … and now abortion and the destruction of embryos …
There are some who choose “viability” of the unborn [embryo] … but as we know viability is a moving target …
Still others say that anytime before the first birthday [and even the second] after birth
… as they are not people …In another thread a poster stated that only individuals between 20 and 30 years of age were fully human
… I don’t know what they makes of those with ages before or after 
… of some value but not much 
Human life is God given and we should be presumptious in using [and ending] that life …
As I said we are embodied spirits … we are not just bodies, we are not spiritual beings [those are angels] … we have spirit and life …
W
wanner47
Guest
Who are you to speak for God?
I rather think God would have us obey his commandments, especially the one that says, “Thou shalt not kill.”
L
larsegarots
Guest
And using stem cells wouldn’t be killing anybody that would be born.
They aren’t embryos yet. They are cells waiting to be fertilized as fertilization clinics for couples that need assistance. The cells have surpassed their shelf life and are about to be thrown away. God would rather see us improve the lives of his creatures than throw the cells away.
The world is not black and white. Using the cells is very much different from using adult prisoners in China. I don’t think this comes close to opening that door.
P
Pete_1
Guest
I think you are mistaken the frozen cells are in-fact embryos(combined sperm and egg) not an unfertilized female gamete(egg).
Each embryo is a human being with *unique *human DNA.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo_donation
L
larsegarots
Guest
I’m simply stating my beliefs, which are just as valid as yours.
Would you obey this commandment if a terrorist was in your house and about to blow up your family, or would you kill the terrorist?
My answer is that it would be moral to kill that terrorist.
P
Pete_1
Guest
The Church maintains self defense is moral. Killing an innocent is not.
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm#2263
L
larsegarots
Guest
Yes, I think you are right. I stand corrected.
It doesn’t, however, change my stance, and I do not believe that embryo is a human being.
N
Newbie2
Guest
Ah, how the Lord’s thoughts and ways are so far above ours…
Catholic theology states that ensoulment occurs at the moment of conception.
And…you cannot state without certainty that these embryos would not be adopted, implanted, eventually to grow into a mature adult human being. Agreed that it’s best not to discard them with the rest of the trash, though.
Quite correct, it would seem. There would not be a problem if we were only taking about unfertilized human eggs…although artificially stimulating a woman so she could produce a boxcarload full for “harvesting”, admittedly a different moral subject, could be morally objectionable.
L
larsegarots
Guest
That is my point. It is moral in this case to follow one of the ten commandments.
I do not believe a human life is being killed.
L
larsegarots
Guest
I can - In fact, the ones they use have passed their expiration date and about to be discarded.
W
wanner47
Guest
Why do you think God would agree with your opinion?
I would use every reasonable means to disarm the terrorist, including sacrificing myself to save my family if need be, before resorting to killing another in self-defense.
P
Pete_1
Guest
Take this hypothetical situation.
Suppose time travel is possible, would you permit scientists to travel back in time and harvest your stem cells thereby killing you?
L
larsegarots
Guest
No.
P
Pete_1
Guest
You maintain that:
1.) Embryos are not human beings
2.) It is always just to kill non-human beings for medicinal benefit.
Therefore it is always just to kill embryos for medicinal benefit.
However then you say this:
This response is incompatible with the logic. As you are at that time an embryo so according to your logic you are not a human being and it is just to kill you for medicinal purposes.
1.) Embryos are not human beings
2.) It is always just to kill non-human beings for medicinal benefit.
Therefore it is always just to kill embryos for medicinal benefit.
However then you say this:
In response to this: Suppose time travel is possible, would you permit scientists to travel back in time and harvest your stem cells thereby killing you?
This response is incompatible with the logic. As you are at that time an embryo so according to your logic you are not a human being and it is just to kill you for medicinal purposes.
N
Newbie2
Guest
They come with expiration dates stamped on them?
L
larsegarots
Guest
God gave us science and intelligence. It stands to reason that God would want us to use the cells to better the world, rather than to throw those cells away.
- Status