More big problems for Church

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Christ promised he would send the Holy Spirit to guide his church …he also taught us how we were to live…his church hasn’t failed…it still proclaims the truth…it’s men who have failed to heed his words…men who have been entrusted to “feed his sheep”…there have probably been a couple million priests worldwide that have come and gone during the last 50-60 years…the vast majority were I’m sure dedicated priests to their vocation…unfortunately it’s like the saying “one rotten apple spoils the barrel”…sadly there has been more than one rotten apple…couple that with coverups and the problem is greatly compounded…and 50-60 years ago it was a typical reaction in that society to cover up cases of sexual abuse…or rape…domestic violence…it wasn’t…or isn’t just the Catholic church…even Protestant churches have had a sexual abuse problem as have other organisations…boy scouts…the military…etc…even family members where it was covered up to hide the shame…this is no excuse for what some priests have done…they need to be prosecuted which many now are…and the church is now taking responsibility as others hopefully are…the Catholic church will survive because Christ promised it would…hopefully we can all begin to move forward with a deeper commitment to Christ and his church
 
wkj_123 said:
Niethier. Just pointing out it’s a lot different to debate an athiest with no knowledge of the church vs one who grew up with it and to borrow a phrase, weighed it on the scales and found it wanting.
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Atheists aren’t confined to ex-Catholics, so correlation once again doesn’t equal causation.

To totally disbelieve - and I have nothing against that as we’re all entitled to believe how we see fit (disbelieving is still a belief, no matter what anyone says, because it’s a belief in nothing) - and decide there is no God and all religion is wrong takes more than just being done with the Catholic Church.

Otherwise you’d have no atheists who were ex-Protestants - or ex-Muslims - or ex-insert name of organized religion here - and there are plenty of all of those about.
 
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This isn’t about beliefs but more about biology and pyschology.
 
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Pup7 said:
Where did the sun come from?

With definitive proof, if you don’t mind my asking. Irrefutable, concrete proof.
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Your missing the point. You already know the science. The beauty of my position is I don’t have to explain that to you. I don’t have to have the answers. All I’m doing is looking at the Church’s claims and saying nope, doesn’t hold up. The evidence does not come close to supporting Christianity.
 
wkj_123 said:
That makes literally no sense.
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That makes perfect sense. You can’t just have no thoughts on a subject, no convictions.

Not surprised you’d say that. In fact, I expected it.

If you don’t believe in something, that’s a belief. A conviction that something doesn’t exist/isn’t true is a belief that it isn’t true.
 
wkj_123 said:
Your missing the point. You already know the science. The beauty of my position is I don’t have to explain that to you. I don’t have to have the answers. All I’m doing is looking at the Church’s claims and saying nope, doesn’t hold up. The evidence does not come close to supporting Christianity.
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Which was sort of my point.

No one has irrefutable proof of any belief or theory of creation.

The beauty of my position is I don’t have to explain it to you either. We’re free to believe and think how we want to believe and think.

Have you read “The Case For Christ”? There’s an atheist who did the research…and found the evidence. (If you’re not a reader, the movie on Netflix is just as good.)

“In the beginning” and the Creation predates Christianity, actually. Christianity as a religion began with Christ, not Creation.
 
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Pup7 said:
If you don’t believe in something, that’s a belief. A conviction that something doesn’t exist/isn’t true is a belief that it isn’t true.
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That’s like saying darkness isn’t darkness, darkness is just light with no light. Wowzers.
 
Pretty much. It’s still accurate. By definition, a conviction in the truth or falsehood of anything is a belief in its truth or falsehood.
 
wkj_123 said:
Well not really. You do have the great commission…
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But I’m still under no obligation to explain it if I don’t particularly care to do so. Why would I attempt to convince someone who isn’t, when I could expend that energy on someone who might? You have chosen to not accept the RCC, and I accept that. We’re here (we Catholics, that is) should you change your mind, and you know where to find us.

I’m not Mormon. My objective isn’t to convert everyone and my ancestors. Attempting to ram one’s views down someone’s throat when that person has said “thanks but no thanks, not my bag” isn’t part of the deal.
 
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Pup7 said:
Pretty much. It’s still accurate. By definition, a conviction in the truth or falsehood of anything is a belief in its truth or falsehood.
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Lol I like you! Seriously you stick by your guns I respect that even if I think your 100% wrong
 
Mostly because I don’t think you have to agree with me. It’s still correct by definition, but you don’t have to accept that. I don’t win because you agree. Or lose because you don’t, actually.
 
PetraG said:
Where did the “thousands” figure come from? There are only 5100 Roman Catholic bishops on the entire planet . A typical diocese has…what? 150 priests? No clergy who knew ever said anything ? They were truly silent? Or was no one who said anything ever believed? I don’t see how the “thousands” figure is “apparent” at all.
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Have you read the posts by Rod Dreher about this? Dreher is a trustworthy source. When he says that for years (maybe decades) this man brought seminarians to his place, that number multiplies rapidly. I didn’t say thousands of bishops, of course. I said thousands of both priests and bishops combined.
 
stpurl said:
You tell me.
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I should think a major factor is the claims the Church make for itself. I you make extraordinary claims you should not be surprised by the response if your behaviour does not substantiate them. Plus the world wide nature of the scandals suggests an endemic pattern, which must at least partly be a result of the nature of the Church as an institution. Plus ……………. there is plenty more.
 
clayto1 said:
I should think a major factor is the claims the Church make for itself. I you make extraordinary claims you should not be surprised by the response if your behaviour does not substantiate them. Plus the world wide nature of the scandals suggests an endemic pattern, which must at least partly be a result of the nature of the Church as an institution. Plus ……………. there is plenty more
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And bingo was his name-o
 
clayto1 said:
I should think a major factor is the claims the Church make for itself. I you make extraordinary claims you should not be surprised by the response if your behaviour does not substantiate them.
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The Church claims that it is a body of sinners, aspiring to the teachings set out by Christ, but falling short (as all people do).

We seem to be pretty good at fulfilling that claim. 😉
 
I’m 60 years old, have lived my share of life, been around, seen a lot. I’m not easily scandalized.

But I’m scandalized by McCarrick and the revelations that have poured out this week about his well known exploits and the many clerics at all levels who have covered up the story for years.

I find myself no longer trusting priests at all. But even more I am astonished at how someone can live in such utter hypocrisy before God for years on end. Did this man never think about his immortal soul? Never say the Rosary sincerely? Never examine his conscience?

Honestly I just can’t fathom the blindness here.
 
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