More Christ Less Defence of Catholic Doctrine

[Bruno_Schulz]

**In my last post I said: In the end, everything is a matter between God and every single person.

This morning I spoke to a couple of young Christians and we talked just this theme over. In fact, ALL – all of our life, including all our relations to others, stays a matter between God and us. Any time, any situation, any place we are, whatever we say, state, do or neglect, all of it we’ll bring with us before the Lord – it all will matter when we finally have to scan our life’s before the Lord as to right or wrong done. More often than not, it’s what we omitted instead of what we did.

Anyhow – life really consists of one single question, and that is: How’s the relation between Jesus Christ and me? This can only be good, when I love my neighbour; this can only be good, when I love God.
And that finally will be so, when I believe in God to an extend that I’m able to say; I don’t just believe, - I KNOW that God is!
When asked; tell me, why do you think you “KNOW”? Our favorite answer is: “Because Jesus Christ said so!” and when a friend I trust in, tells me something, I don’t just believe so; I know things are as he told! How much more than a friend is Jesus Christ?!
**

 

[Strategery]

Why is this so?

Wouldn’t it be wonderful and lovely to really get to know others who are in Christ too? And let’s ask ourselves if we are in Christ, when we avoid getting to know each other.

I’m late to this thread and haven’t read everything, but this statement is key to the OP’s sentiment.

IMO, we have a void in Discipleship. One-on-one relationships between more mature and less mature Christians, meeting regularly over a period of years. Spiritual mentoring on an individual level. The model being Christ with the Twelve, and Paul with Timothy. This is the process by which the Church began, and it’s been going on for over 2,000 years.

Our priests can only do so much, and only so much can happen with programs and classes. What moves people the most is to see their fellow parishoners reaching out to each other on a spiritual level. The spiritually hungry need to be able to see clear, concrete examples of how to live in the faith. IMO it is an unfortunate truth that our separated Protestant brothers do this more effectively than we Catholics do.

There are so many people in the pews who are always there for good works - to help with a fundraiser or a project, to volunteer time, to make a meal for others – but aren’t comfortable talking about faith.

Also IMO, we’ve taken the “preach always, use words when necessary” adage too much to heart. When a spiritually hungry person reaches out for help, words are necessary. So is an investment of time in that individual, in a small group or one-on-one setting. We need to make true, spiritual relationships with each other.

If you’re still with me here, this is a concrete example of spiritual warfare in our time.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

We need to make true, spiritual relationships with each other.** **
How right you are!
Certainly our separated Protestant brothers do loving community more efficient than we Catholics do. Why is that so? Why do we reach hands in church to people, we outside the church avoid.
Why don’t we exchange e-mails here. Why do we avoid exchanging mail-addresses even to members of the same church. Where is our Christian love then?
So often e.g. I was going to send an e-mail to some posters here, and red: “Sorry xy… doesn’t want e-mails”. (I myself cant write or accept PM’s as I find that PM-techique too complicated, and I need more time to read and write than if my nature language would be English but I’d love e-mails to the theme, -and so would others I’m sure-. Address: Krippenfiguren at t-online.de ) and besides; is there anything more arising, than having a lot of friends in Jesus Christ who think the same way fighting together with us against the mere stupidity of atheism?

 

[BSHoop96]

Sam,
I have peace and joy.
But wait till I learnt the guitar. Maybe even the sax. I want to be IN the music ministry and fill a late Sunday mass with gift of music - **with a little Jam to lift the young crowd and get them coming back with thirst. **

I wish you were kidding here but unfortunately, you’re not.
Why oh why do people come back to the Church and then try to change it it resemble something else? The Church shouldn’t “change” for us. We should “change” for the Church.

 

[po18guy]

I wish you were kidding here but unfortunately, you’re not.
Why oh why do people come back to the Church and then try to change it it resemble something else? The Church shouldn’t “change” for us. We should “change” for the Church.

I have to say Amen! The power of prayer converts hearts. I believe that it is preferable to music. Let’s allow the Holy Spirit to attract the old and the young.

Love of the Lord will keep them.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Roza]

I hope I didn’t sound like I was trying to change the Church, I just remember more interaction and feeling a part of a church family. Yes, I know I can find different ministries and such and some day I will. To the newcomer though, or someone back after a long time away… I guess I wonder… maybe I shouldn’t be wondering so much?

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

The Church shouldn’t “change” for us. We should “change” for the Church.

**Oh, the church is and keeps changing for us and for God, as the Church pronounces in her name and her self-conception as:
ECCLESIA SEMPER REFORMANDA
which is Latin and means
the continuously reforming Church; all the same continuously for better understanding of God’s word - that was told us by Jesus - and before by God Himself (through Moses, Prophets etc, whom God addressed personally).

Reforming to pay attention to the continuously changing times and situation of mankind and our relation to God in better understanding.

And Roza, you and we all owe no justification to others (even though we ought to for a better understanding) but we all need to justify ourselves again continuously to God. Every day anew.**

 

[KingAlfred]

I am hearing too much about why the Catholic Church is the true Church and how we oppose abortion etc etc etc this is fantastic ! Amen.
But I have grown a bit and I want to hear more about the love of Christ. I want to hear more about Catholics reaching out with love and being confident and full of the joys of Christ.

Surely the joy of the Spirit and truth must be spread with the vigour that St Paul went about his work!!

We need to be more involved, more full of life and an example to many. Get involved with your Church (if your faith is not costing you anything it is dead!) - some parishes need to have at least one organless mass to attract the youth. Preach Apologetics before Alpha!
I think there is a huge gap. We are too defensive. We need to be offensive if our faith is alive.

I have more but I will just throw that out there…so long

I agree fully, but one challenge we have is that many Christians simply can’t identify with Catholic traditions and practices, and the basic demand that the individual surrender himself to the Church for his salvation. They don’t have the insights or conditioning to accept all of the above. They prefer to take a more independent, personal, and direct approach to worshiping God through Christ. Let’s face it – our brand of Christianity is complex and hard to sell. It’s almost 2,000 years old, and a matter of education-before-worship, really.

 

[Roza]

I admit, I fell into anti-Catholic stuff, felt more like I had a church family, something I never really experienced before as a Catholic so … well, protested. But yeah, something once again was missing from crackers and juice once a month. Yes, I loved the delving into the Bible more in depth, I loved learning the history, learning about the customs etc but for lack of better words… something (someone) was missing. The real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Me myself, I need/want more Catholic teaching just so I know. I’ve been doing the ‘what does this verse say to you’ bit and yes the word is living but I really want to know what was intended when the word was written… what it says to me doesn’t tell me what the author intended it to say. Jesus said He’d never leave His Church so don’t the two really go together?

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

want more Catholic teaching
want to know what was intended when the word was written…
what it says to me doesn’t tell me what the author intended it to say

The author Dear, is mainly the Holy Spirit. Just remember Whitsun.
Pentecost, the frightened apostle gathered together around Holy Mary. Suddenly Holy Spirit came upon them, and God (which is the Holy Spirit) gave them the word. (People standing around from other regions, countries and other languages said: “How come they speak in our language?”). And they announced finally now the word of Jesus Christ freely and loudly and without fear.

And some of them, put it down in letters to the first parishes and those letters later where collected under the supervision of the Holy spirit and no wrong word entered, for it was part of the church that Jesus had not only founded, but also promised that He will be with HIS church for ever and ever until the end of times.

So:
There are no “authors” of the Holy Bible, but simply Gods own people who wrote down what was about Jesus Christ. His words and all there’s to it. Well, “all” would be too much said, as John pointed out “if we had written all, the worlds libraries wouldn’t hold the books so many that would be”.
They never intended anything else to say, than what God, what Jesus taught and said.
And Saint Peter warned us about this point as follows in Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

So:
What the gospel says, must never, never, never tell you what “the author” intended to say, but it must tell you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Which it does!
All you need, is the grace of God to really get it; which you absolutely will, if you ask God to give you His grace to understand. For see Matthew 7:8:
For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened!

Isn’t that joyful news?!
**

 

[BSHoop96]

**Oh, the church is and keeps changing for us and for God, as the Church pronounces in her name and her self-conception as:
ECCLESIA SEMPER REFORMANDA
which is Latin and means
the continuously reforming Church; all the same continuously for better understanding of God’s word - that was told us by Jesus - and before by God Himself (through Moses, Prophets etc, whom God addressed personally).

Reforming to pay attention to the continuously changing times and situation of mankind and our relation to God in better understanding.

And Roza, you and we all owe no justification to others (even though we ought to for a better understanding) but we all need to justify ourselves again continuously to God. Every day anew.**

The study and growth in understanding of God’s word that the Church has done thru the centuries is not the same as ** “let’s add some jammin’ music”** to draw in the kids. It’s not the same as the change of some of our disciplines which have been changed in modern times. We are not talking the same thing. The Church should not change because some people come from a different Church background and want to incorporate some of that into the Catholic Church because “they like it more” than what we have. The kids can have a church function “outside of Mass” with jammin’ music.

By the way, Roza wasn’t even the poster I was speaking to.

 

[BSHoop96]

I hope I didn’t sound like I was trying to change the Church, I just remember more interaction and feeling a part of a church family. Yes, I know I can find different ministries and such and some day I will. To the newcomer though, or someone back after a long time away… I guess I wonder… maybe I shouldn’t be wondering so much?

Roza…I wasn’t referring to your post in case you thought I was. Study of the scripture is great. Does your parish not have an RE class? If not, maybe you could get one started. There is also a parish here (not mine) that has started a Cathechesis class for adult Catholics which I think is great. The Pope has encouraged us to study the Word of God also. Good luck!

 

[po18guy]

I admit, I fell into anti-Catholic stuff, felt more like I had a church family, something I never really experienced before as a Catholic so … well, protested. But yeah, something once again was missing from crackers and juice once a month. Yes, I loved the delving into the Bible more in depth, I loved learning the history, learning about the customs etc but for lack of better words… something (someone) was missing. The real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Me myself, I need/want more Catholic teaching just so I know. I’ve been doing the ‘what does this verse say to you’ bit and yes the word is living but I really want to know what was intended when the word was written… what it says to me doesn’t tell me what the author intended it to say. Jesus said He’d never leave His Church so don’t the two really go together?

You might have a look at Catholic Scripture Study International. Founded by Gail Buckley, a convert to the faith. She has a program that is tailor made for parishes and is not the usual Protestant “everyone welcome” program.

cssprogram.net/?page=aboutcss

Christ’s peace.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

The Church should not change because some people come from a different Church background

**
Sorry, I obviously didn’t express myself correctly.

The church never changes for social and “to be more liked by people” reasons. Nor would a change of formalities like other music be meant by REFORMANDA.
What the church does is;

1. to get further into faith and understanding of the word of God
2. to give people a deeper understanding
3. to keep the community of Jesus own church together under

the true preaching of the word of God
This is the REFORMANDA that recreates and reforms Jesus Church anew in a “NEARER TO YOU OH GOD” year by year.
**