'More than able to hold her own,' girl gets boot from Catholic football league

  • Thread starter Thread starter Myqyl
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
In forensic anthropology that often deals with investigating the human skeletal remains of murder victims, MIA’s, or that which is in mass genocides graves… it is difficult to scientifically identify the skeletal remains of children as either female or male.

At certain ages there is little sexual dimorphism between the sexes among Homo sapiens.

In fact anthropologically and biologically speaking females begin to physically mature faster than boys. I know as a smaller boy among boys 99% of girls stood taller and weighed heavier than me.

As an adult American male few American born and raised females stand taller than me (though quite a number are heavier than I am). Among many of the Muslim women at my university from Western and Eastern Asia I tower over them.

But if one took religion and gender priorities (e.g., “boys should not hit girls”) out of it. Looked at the issue from a purely scientific perspective, and informed one’s opinions from the behaviors of chimpanzees (the males frequently, violently beat the females), young American boys arguably should be reared to throw elbows, upper cuts, and knees, and land with stomps to various anatomical points on American girls who are either competitively their same size or larger than them.

On the other hand… from a non-scientific stand point that places value on gender (which is not one and the same as biological sex) differences, such as that of religion, which promotes the early development of concepts as chivalry and treating females as “ladies” then even boys smaller than girls ought be instilled with the idea it is wrong to hit or meet girls with violence.

The world of the chimpanzees is interesting though. I have an anthropology professor that says basically male chimpanzees jump on (violently attack) the female chimpanzees for just about any reason that ticks them off. They raise “domestic violence” almost up to a sport level.

The non-religious are fond of pointing out the chimps as are closest relatives.

But what I would like to say… there is nothing particularly remarkable about a girl in grade school performing well in football among grade school boys. It would be remarkable in college football or the NFL where sexual dimorphism is far more pronounced between male and female humans anatomically.

But don’t let science interrupt ideology or the attempt to erode social and moral values that attempt to promote the protection of the so-called “weaker” sex.
 
If a girl/woman has the physical, mental and desire to play football, she should be able to play, period. She should be drafted based upon her abilities to play the game and play it well, just like the boys.
With respect, I disagree Julianna.

Generally speaking, (not in every case), men are physically superior to women.

This is why contact sports should be gender-segregated.

I have no doubt that many women would make fine, skilled football players.

But is simply not fair to ask a man to treat a female opponent as if she were a male.

I am 6’3" tall and weight 200 Lbs. That’s not very big for a football player, but its big in general terms.

I simply wouldn’t feel comfortable being asked to use my size and strength to smash a female player into the ground.

It goes against everything I have been taught - and naturally feel - regarding how I should behave towards women. It goes against everything our western societies say about how men should treat women.

Plus, a woman is far more likely to be injured by me (or whoever) in a contact sport, than a man of similar size to myself (or a man generally).

Imagine an ogre of a defensive lineman annihilated a female quarterback with a stunning sack and she had to be carried off the field. Would the fans and team cheer and celebrate, like they do if the QB is male?

No, it would be “Jeez, take it easy”. or “What did you do that for? You are much bigger than her, show some restraint”.

How do you think the lineman himself would feel, if it turned out the female QB was very badly injured as a result of his tackle?

Its just not fair on men, to ask them to treat women as though they were other men.

Its a fact of life that - while men and women are equals - they are* not * identical and we should not lose sight of this, while striving to make our society as fair as it can be.

And we should think of the social ramifications:

If we say its OK for sportswomen to face men twice their size in contact sport, or for women to “close with and kill the enemy” on the front lines of a war, how can we then credibly turn around and say domestic violence against women is such a big deal?

You cant say women are capable of ripping the guts out of an enemy infantryman with a bayonet, but then somehow need special legal protections from men in a domestic setting - that’s just absurd.

We should be careful what we wish for!
 
You cant say women are capable of ripping the guts out of an enemy infantryman with a bayonet, but then somehow need special legal protections from men in a domestic setting - that’s just absurd.

We should be careful what we wish for!
Let’s call things what they are: American females increasingly have a lack of respect for males. Paramount is any male they view as smaller than them or of similar physical proportions.

I could tell my son, “See that girl over there! She is smaller than you. I want to you to engage her with extreme prejudice. I taught you Thai boxing, now drop and elbow on the top of her head and split it open. Drive your knee into her belly or chest like you are trying to drive through her spine. Defeat her. Win. That is all that matters.”

Sometimes winning is not all that matters.

But if I had a young boy under my charge as a boxing coach and I knew a girl was better than him as a boxer I would not allow him to fight her. Boxing coaches are very careful not even to allow their young fighters to box with fighters of the same sex as them that far better than them, because their fighter can become “glove shy” in his or her novice years. Basically, the fighter’s mind is destroyed. And the mind counts a lot.

Men that batter women can destroy a woman mentally too.

What feminist cheer is that some girl taller and bigger than some smaller and more timid boy gets thoroughly defeated publicly. But I won’t stand for it on my watch. And dare I say there are few women walking on planet earth that can defeat me hand-to-hand. I don’t care if they are 6 foot 6 and weigh in excessive of 250 pounds. I doubt most could last past 60 seconds in a “phone booth” fight with me. So, it is absurd there are any so called “many women” that can tear down and physically grind to the earth mammoth men like Kimbo Slice.

(That said… I’ve watched on video a few women on earth that I honestly know would defeat me hand-to-hand, but they basically look like men anyways, a few are in prison and a few fight professionally [and look like they use anabolic steroids and have penises developed as a side effect])

Women yapping about what “women can do” have been watching the Karate Kid one too many times. They think they know violence. They haven’t begun to know violence. And football at the college and professional level is violence. Even at the high school you have a lot varsity players that are big boys. Especially in certain hardcore football countries like Texas. There are teenage boys way bigger than me.
 
If the “males” are bright enough to know and are “minors” and mommy and daddy sign off on it, what’s the difference?🤷

Abortion is not part of this thread…geez louise :rolleyes:
-Your post I was responding to makes no mention of parents. Your contention was that if the minor female player “knows” the possible ill effects of playing and still wants to play she should be able to.

-Please show me where my comment either stated or implied that a minor male player does or can “know” said ill effects.

-No abortion does not play a role in this conversation, however being that I created a list of items that a minor is held by society and the law not to have the ability to “know” and that abortion is the one of the items that is the exception to this (ABCs being the other) I needed to mention it being an exception.
 
When you see two boys wrestling, do you think about it as being sexual? Of course not, it’s a SPORT.
Oh, my. I wrestled and no, I didn’t find it sexual. I don’t find it sexually arousing to grab an opponent in such a way that my hand ended up in his crotch area. I will tell you with 100% certainty, if I put my and on a girls crotch, I would have found that arousing. ESPECIALLY when I was a teen and the hormones were flowing at a high rate.

I’m sure you would be glad to have your teen daughter put into some of the following positions with a teenaged boy.


http://www.live-production.tv/system/files/imagecache/FW_GALLERY/38_Wrestling.jpg

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

This isn’t about equality. It is about modesty and morality and maybe we should be teaching our boys that there are things you don’t do to girls and teaching our girls that there are things you don’t let boys do to you.

Peace

Tim
 
Exactly. Any difference is deemed inequality. We must be the same in every way or it is unjust. Equality is the god we strive for. Anything less is immoral and oppressive.
I am a man who can’t get pregnant. Who do I sue?
 
I don’t have a problem with there existing institutions, such as football, where boys are allowed to congregate and be boys on their own. without girls being a part of it.

It is not that there are no girls that are capable of playing football. The masculine bonding that takes place in football, and the development of masculine values that can take place in such gender-specific traditions such as football are something that are good in developing a boy’s character.
There is absolutely no reason that girls need to be into everything that boys are into. There are precious few places left where boys can congregate together as boys, just on their own. Football is one of those few places left that can still pass as a boys club.

Women have proven to the world in the last few generations that there is nothing that they cannot do. They can run the world, for sure. There is not shortage of boys too, shacked up in their basements with their video games and their beer, who are not willing to let women do just that, if that is what they want.
Football is one of those sports that affirms a boys masculinity and encourages boys to be aggressive in socially acceptable ways. It encourages men to be men, and teaches them the values that will get them out of those basements and into positions of leadership, where they will take charge and be encouraged to do just that.

Women lack for nothing in our societies.
Except for men— which is to say those males of the species that are capable of being responsible for them and their families.

But men are not born that way. They are made that way.

Football and other such boys clubs where testosterone and masculinity are encouraged are what make boys into men.

Catholic schools are still aware of this.
I agree leave the boys alone or form a girls team.
 
The Diocese is right in this case. The girl is 11, and the boys she would be playing against are right on the cusp of puberty. A few will begin to enter it during the season. Once that happens, she is in a great deal of jeopardy from the vastly increased physical violence.

The dad is a numbskull. He should look out for his daughter’s best interests and pull her from the team. It’s cute and fun when they are pre-pubescent. It is downright dangerous once they hit puberty. The gains in speed, strength, size, and violence level for the boys will increase dramatically very soon. It’s probably already started some, and to be honest, the boys have probably been unconscously taking it a little easy on her already.
 
Didn’t see the movie, but it’s soccer. Some contact yes, but nothing like getting plowed by a 200 + lb linebacker. Unless of course she wants to be a place kicker…🤷 I haven’t read the whole thread. Even a kicker can take a hit every now and then.
 
Oh, my. I wrestled and no, I didn’t find it sexual. I don’t find it sexually arousing to grab an opponent in such a way that my hand ended up in his crotch area. I will tell you with 100% certainty, if I put my and on a girls crotch, I would have found that arousing. ESPECIALLY when I was a teen and the hormones were flowing at a high rate.

I’m sure you would be glad to have your teen daughter put into some of the following positions with a teenaged boy.

The Telegraph - Telegraph Online, Daily Telegraph, Sunday Telegraph - Telegraph

http://www.live-production.tv/system/files/imagecache/FW_GALLERY/38_Wrestling.jpg

http://peterbreggphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Olympic-Wrestling.jpg

This isn’t about equality. It is about modesty and morality and maybe we should be teaching our boys that there are things you don’t do to girls and teaching our girls that there are things you don’t let boys do to you.

Peace

Tim
It is amazing the your common sense is not apparent to all. I will repeat, our society has gone mad.
 
LOL!!!

In this day and age, are you against equal opportunity?

Does that mean you don’t let your daughters, if you have any, play sports?

If so, I feel really, really, really sad for them.

I suppose we should not let men be chefs because cooking is for women.
Or fashion designers, because sewing is for women.
Or caretakers because cleaning is for women.

Men who want to do those things are following “silly masculinism” and they should not be allowed.
Pure and simple.

.
Yes male and female are exactly the same. Yes football is equal to being a chef. Yes female sports teams are unfair. Yes not having a girl on a male football team is lacking equal opportunity. Yes there is no common sense among those who worship sameness as equality.
 
I played football freshman year in high school. Wrestled one year in junior year. Decided to just work a job my senior year.

In my mid 30s I started amateur boxing training.

Cardiovascular wise and as far as hard training goes… wrestling and boxing by far beat football. Like I said in the past in a different thread. Anyone that wrestles on a high school team should have no problem with the physical part of Marine Corps boot camp.

But arguably the most dangerous of the 3 sports is football. And I’m not talking about playing football outside with your friend, with no pads on. That is rugby style and I did that all throughout my youth. You pull kids down. Not to bad.

Football is a car crash. Sorry, it is. Unless you’re just a kicker maybe.

One of the worst pains I’ve ever felt in my life was being sandwiched during practice. I was a running back and less than 90 lbs. Smallest kid on the team. I think my jersey was too big for me (I was short 🤷). I could not get up off the ground. I laid supine LOL! with the coach eventually standing over me asking if I was okay and still able to play. I responded yes. I still laid and could not get up. He realized quickly I was just saying a response he wanted to hear and didn’t want to show weakness but was too hurt. So, he called someone else out in my place.

Wrestling can be tough at times in high school (though college wrestling is at another level). When someone is taking their wrist area across the bridge of your nose. But it’s not a car crash or getting your head punched in. Though, I can just imagine a wrestling coach telling some kid on the mat, “Ride her legs,” 😃 And the teenage boy looking up perplexed, “You mean her…?” :confused:

Little kids playing football really is not “football.” That there are women or men that think it is is rather revealing about their own experience in violence. It’s like someone thinking the Karate Kid (I’m a fan of the movie too) with the famous Crane pose and kick is how violence is carried out. youtube.com/watch?v=xgD8SfWTQ2o So, one says to themselves… “A girl can do that to!” Yes she can.
 
This isn’t about equality. It is about modesty and morality and maybe we should be teaching our boys that there are things you don’t do to girls and teaching our girls that there are things you don’t let boys do to you.

Peace

Tim
If a girl is wrestling big college men then she likely looks like a man or half-man herself anyways. I once knew a woman built manly in the physique (she looked way more anthropologically “robust” than Justin Timberlake) that literally had hair on her chest.

I think I’d rather date Justin Timberlake.

I’d be curious what your views are if the girl looks like a boy with a penis? I had to throw in that last word for effect.

I’m not talking about prepubescent kids. I’m talking about teenagers and college kids.

Like… if your girlfriend is built like a man and has hair on her chest does that make you secretly gay? Just one of those questions that makes you go hmm?

But I was always a fan of Lucia Rijker. Now that was/is one tough woman. She doesn’t quite look like a man either. But that is boxing and not wrestling. A bit different in how each opponent touches each other.

I think in some other sport women complained about a male-to-female transsexual competing against them. Why? And if girls join boy boxing should boys join girl boxing? Hmm? The never ending questions. But if they can grab, hit, or wrestle each other why the prohibition against groups showers with boys and girls on the same team? In my Catholic high school the boys shower was totally open and a group showering set up.

Frankly, I don’t care about all of that. What concerns me more is the character development of the boys in an all boys sports. The young athlete’s/man’s mind. I used to work the mitts with one of my nephews and work him on the heavy bag. But that also comes with talking, and patience. It’s development. As shy as he was I was pleased when he expressed some courage to take on a group of boys that had jumped on his little friend.

Anyone can take a bully and make them into a bigger and badder bully. Or in football you can take one or more kids of reasonable or large size and have them run over a few of the smaller players.

But when I talk about development I’m talking about years put into an individual and an individual that was unremarkable and transforming them into something remarkable. Now we are talking about something.

One of my regrets with sports is that I never made a strong commitment to one (or more) on a year after year basis. I was never the most dedicated pupil when I did train anyways.

Commitment and dedication everyone might be able to agree is sex and gender neutral. There are ample examples of committed and dedicated female athletes at all levels of the game in various sports. Even this young girl in the OP article has commitment and dedication.
 
Two good vids on the mind by those involved in training athletes. The latter mention the male biological sex explicitly at one point.

I know people think champions are born and not made. My first boxing coach used to like to point out how wrong that belief is. But people see the finished product and the win–especially among male alphas–and think “real men” like them never had any doubt. Just pure minds of steel. Not true for most alphas.

The first vid is of Mike Tyson. He’s a young kid about to box in a match and he starts crying from fear. Imagine if he got beat by a girl. He may never have risen to be heavy weight champion of the world. The defeat and humiliation would almost certainly (by odds) stunted his development as a fighter and ruined his mind.
  1. youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mKjK95aRrhc
  2. youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yczxvGVx4Yk
Wins develop confidence. In sports, in courting, in academics, in business, in life.
 
oy! Dios mio.
Boys and girls wrestling with each other? I assume in the teenager years? No on sees a problem with this? Our society has gone completely mad.
I wrestled in high school. We had two girl wrestlers on our team. I wrestled them, and I wrestled other girls from other teams. I’m heterosexual. Some girls I beat, some girls beat me. Did I find anything sexual about it while we were wrestling? No. Its combat, its rough, its dirty, its agressive, its fast-paced. period. Perhaps for want of a better term, you don’t have time to become aroused.

Are boys, as a whole, stronger than girls? Yes. Does that mean all boys are stronger than all girls? No. Does it mean that strength exclusively determines one’s capacity to excel? Absolutely not.

And wrestling is certainly more of a contact sport than Football (although ironically, one less prone to injury for some reason)…where you’d have trouble distinguishing any major components of anatomy under all those pads.

=====

In general, I would say this: If it is a sport where close physical contact is likely, where strength plays an important role, and where one might reasonably expect for the gender differences to have a major impact, then the sexes should be separate WHEN POSSIBLE.

However, in the case of many of these sports…wrestling, football, hockey, etc…particularly at the younger level, there are not the options for girls to play outside of the boys teams. So until that day arrives, you let them play together.

It works, trust me.
 
Heaven forbid women were able to excel in a common sport.
The problem with your argument is that they are *not * able to excel in a common sport
along side men.
Oh, and boxing, can you believe it, boxing:eek:
Yea, until she wants to box a man. Then the match would be over very quickly, and the woman would be down for the count.
And now our federal government said they can be in the front lines in combat.
Not yet. Not until the physical standards are lowered so that a girl can pass them, which in the name of political correctness they will certainly do.
I don’t know, with an AR15 going off they might break a nail.🤷
The AR15 is not a military weapon. I would guess you are speaking of the M-16 A1.
 
Raising boys and girls is not about sameness. That some things can be done does not mean they should to be done. That physical abilities are equivalent at certain ages does not mean separating boys and girls is denying opportunity. We are equal in dignity. That does not mean we are the same or should encourage sameness as some secular virtue disguised as equality.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top