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Caprica
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Yes, we will become Gods, through the atonement of Jesus Christ, becoming joint-heirs in and with Him.
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Z_Ninja
Guest
For me, I cannot fathom becoming a god, as it is written in Exodus 20: 2-6. God tells us he is the ONLY God, and there are no others. He also says he is a jealous god. So, why would he want us to become gods?
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SirThomasMore
Guest
Mormon Church- You can become Gods or as Gods
Satan- Genesis 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Do the math
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Caprica
Guest
Catholic Church-“460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.””
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SirThomasMore
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lol…really?Catholic Church-“460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.””
Ok, I will pretend you really do not understand this. This is stating that we share in Christ’s Divinity. Theosis is about becoming one in substance with God. First Corinthains 12:27 says that 27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. We are not Gods as in seperate Gods, as you teach in the LDS Church, but God only to the extent that we are one with Christ.
Big difference.
Your way is like Satan’s. The Catholic way is being one with Christ as it states in the Bible
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Caprica
Guest
Nice moving of the goal posts. You said “Mormon Church- You can become Gods or as Gods”. When I quoted the Catechism as saying the same thing, you have to hustle and clarify, which you didn’t do when attempting to compare the Latter-day Saint view of exaltation with Satan’s ideas.
Latter-day Saints believe that we become joint-heirs with Christ, and that it is through the atonement of Jesus Christ that we can become gods. We will never be “separate” from God the Father, and He will always be our God. We become partakers of the divine nature, heirs in Christ, and become like God, Gods.
But nice try.
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Todd520
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Hmmm, I thought the Catechism was the official ‘interpretation’ of doctrine. That it spoke in plain language to remove false interpretation or ambiguity of intent.Catholic Church-“460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.””
This clearly says to me that post-mortal Catholics can be divine in nature, as God
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Z_Ninja
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Now I am confused. I am hearing, become gods, then become like God, Gods. Which is it? either we become Gods as I was taught in an investigators class or we don’t. My father-in-law even told me that once exalted, we become gods of our own planets. For the record, he is 1st council to the Bishop in the ward. (Is that correct?)
Latter-day Saints believe that we become joint-heirs with Christ, and that it is through the atonement of Jesus Christ that we can become gods. We will never be “separate” from God the Father, and He will always be our God. We become partakers of the divine nature, heirs in Christ, and become like God, Gods.
But nice try.
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Caprica
Guest
Z_Ninja,
“Become Gods” and “Become like God” mean the same thing. Quite clearly, we become Gods, and because of this, we are “like God”. They refer to the same concept, though perhaps one could say that saying “like God” implies a comparison of “attributes” that God has that we will also have, since we will be joint-heirs with Christ.
As far as having our own planets, yes, that is a commonly taught belief. We should note again that God the Father will always be our God, our Heavenly Father, even if we do become like Him and participate in His creative energies.
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smad0142
Guest
3 But the book doesn’t use like or as. It says become gods. And this is a modern, published in the last couple of years, book. I don’t think it means like because it definately would have been caught in editing if it was such a glaring error.
- Our misunderstanding here I guess involves 3 but also the fact that I don’t think God the Father has a god. Or that any divinity exists outside of the one and undivided Trinity.
- Where does the goddess come from?
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Z_Ninja
Guest
Then the scenario in which we would become a God of our own world would imply that God has/had a God who also then has/had a god and so on and so forth. Which brings up the problem that the Creator of all had a creator. I read on a blog once that God can’t have anything greater than he is. He is the uncaused cause.
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Todd520
Guest
Hey all,
I’m confused and want an explanation of Catholic doctrine. I read Catachism 460 as stating Catholic souls can become divine, or become God?
If I should start this as another thread, my apologies
I’m confused and want an explanation of Catholic doctrine. I read Catachism 460 as stating Catholic souls can become divine, or become God?
If I should start this as another thread, my apologies
Catholic Church-“460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”: “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.””
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SirThomasMore
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Caprica
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I see that you are still inventing straw man arguments and deflections to continue your erroneous comparison of Latter-day Saint teaching to Satan’s falsehoods.
You continue to not qualify the LDS doctrine as you qualify the Catholic doctrine, as I mentioned before.
The funny thing is, you merely repeated, as the Catholic view, what i have already stated about the Latter-day Saint view: that we become joint-heirs with and in Christ, and that it is through His Atonement that we become Gods. We partake of the divine nature, through Jesus Christ. I’ve said all of this already, but nice job ignoring it, to further your straw man argument. In LDS theology, we do not become Gods without Christ, and without accepting His Atonement (to say otherwise, or to omit this fact as you did, is to show that you do not understand LDS exaltation). Further, we do not become “separate” from God our Father. He will always be our God, our Heavenly Father. In fact, this is the entire point of the Council of Gods view: that the Father is the Head.
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SirThomasMore
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SirThomasMore
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To further illustrate:
"Here, then, is eternal life – to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you,… To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God… " (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 346, 347)
Milton R. Hunter, a member of Mormonism’s First Council of the Seventy, wrote in The Gospel Through the Ages, p 104:
“Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar to that through which we are now passing. He became God - an exalted being - through obedience to the same eternal Gospel truths that we are given opportunity today to obey.”
Hunter, also writes:
“We accept the fact that God is the Supreme Intelligent Being in the universe. He has the greatest knowledge, the most perfect will, and the most infinite power of any person within the realm of our understanding.” “Then how did He become glorified and exalted and attain His present status of Godhood? In the first place, aeons ago God undoubtedly took advantage of every opportunity to learn the laws of truth and as He became acquainted with each new verity He righteously obeyed it. From day to day He exerted His will vigorously, and as a result became thoroughly acquainted with the forces lying about Him. As he gained more knowledge through persistent effort and continuous industry, as well as through absolute obedience, His understanding of the universal laws continued to become more complete. Thus He grew in experience and continued to grow until He attained the status of Godhood. In other words, He became God by absolute obedience to all the eternal laws of the Gospel by conforming His actions to all truth, and thereby became the author of eternal truth. Therefore, the road that the Eternal Father followed to Godhood was one of living at all times a dynamic, industrious, and completely righteous life. There is no other way to exaltation.”
Hunter further wrote in the chapter, How Men May Become Gods:
“Thus all men who ascend to the glorious status of Godhood can do so only by one method - by obedience to all the principles and ordinances of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If to obtain eternal life means to enjoy the same type of life that God lives and to experience similar experiences, then those people who receive it to the fullest degree shall actually be Gods.” (The Gospel Through The Ages, pp. 114-117)
See what I mean? I am not making sraw-man arguments. I am quoting your teachings
"Here, then, is eternal life – to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you,… To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God… " (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 346, 347)
Milton R. Hunter, a member of Mormonism’s First Council of the Seventy, wrote in The Gospel Through the Ages, p 104:
“Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar to that through which we are now passing. He became God - an exalted being - through obedience to the same eternal Gospel truths that we are given opportunity today to obey.”
Hunter, also writes:
“We accept the fact that God is the Supreme Intelligent Being in the universe. He has the greatest knowledge, the most perfect will, and the most infinite power of any person within the realm of our understanding.” “Then how did He become glorified and exalted and attain His present status of Godhood? In the first place, aeons ago God undoubtedly took advantage of every opportunity to learn the laws of truth and as He became acquainted with each new verity He righteously obeyed it. From day to day He exerted His will vigorously, and as a result became thoroughly acquainted with the forces lying about Him. As he gained more knowledge through persistent effort and continuous industry, as well as through absolute obedience, His understanding of the universal laws continued to become more complete. Thus He grew in experience and continued to grow until He attained the status of Godhood. In other words, He became God by absolute obedience to all the eternal laws of the Gospel by conforming His actions to all truth, and thereby became the author of eternal truth. Therefore, the road that the Eternal Father followed to Godhood was one of living at all times a dynamic, industrious, and completely righteous life. There is no other way to exaltation.”
Hunter further wrote in the chapter, How Men May Become Gods:
“Thus all men who ascend to the glorious status of Godhood can do so only by one method - by obedience to all the principles and ordinances of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If to obtain eternal life means to enjoy the same type of life that God lives and to experience similar experiences, then those people who receive it to the fullest degree shall actually be Gods.” (The Gospel Through The Ages, pp. 114-117)
See what I mean? I am not making sraw-man arguments. I am quoting your teachings
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SirThomasMore
Guest
and look closely at this quote from Joe
Joseph Smith said, “My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same. And when I get to my kingdom [godhood], I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself.”
See? Joe will get HIS Kingdom and present it to God…and then God will prgress higher and Joe will take God’s place.
Still think I am making this up?
Joseph Smith said, “My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same. And when I get to my kingdom [godhood], I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself.”
See? Joe will get HIS Kingdom and present it to God…and then God will prgress higher and Joe will take God’s place.
Still think I am making this up?
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Caprica
Guest
Unfortunately, what you have posted as LDS teaching is anything but. You qualify the Catholic teaching as posted by me, yet you don’t do the same with LDS teaching, as expected.
This is equivocation. You believe that Jesus is God, right? Therefore, if you become gods as you share in the divinity of Christ/God, then you become gods like God. You’re making a distinction where there is none. Granted, there are obvious differences between exaltation and theosis, however not the ones that you’ve invented.
As I’ve said multiple times, LDS believe that it is only through the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we can become gods, and that we become joint-heirs in Christ (something that I know ParkerD has said multiple times on this forum.
lol…no, sorry, ParkerD clearly presented the LDS view in this post, before you said anything. I then replied with similar statements. You just don’t like that Mormons believe that it is only through Jesus Christ that we are exalted. You attempt to omit Jesus’ central role in our exaltation theology.
Who said this is what the Catholic Church teaches? The issue here is that the Catechism states that you will become gods. You then had to qualify the statement to make it more…palatable. You left the LDS teaching without qualification or explanation, to make it less palatable.
There is no whitewashing. It is clear that your explanation of LDS teaching is false, and attempts to set up a scenario that is not part of our beliefs.
Again, you create straw men arguments. What exactly do you mean by “separate”? As I’ve already stated, we will never be separated from God our Father, since He will always be our God. It is only through the Atonement of His Son, Jesus Christ, that we can become gods, and we must accept Him. Anyone familiar with the Council of the Gods knows that God the Father is the Head, and we will always be His children.
So, it’s clear that you are merely making statements without explanation, and stating things that we do not believe, as you have always done.
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Caprica
Guest
Perhaps you should try reading those quotes. They repeat what I have said. Look at that last one: “Thus all men who ascend to the glorious status of Godhood can do so only by one method - by obedience to all the principles and ordinances of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”
As I’ve already stated, it is only by the atonement of Jesus Christ that we can be exalted. We participate in the life of God, and become gods like Him. We are joint-heirs in Christ, and God will always be our God, and we will never be separated from Him, since it is only because of His Son’s atonement that we can be exalted.
Your quotes support me, not you, lol.
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Caprica
Guest
How funny, Joseph Smith said the same thing in that sermon that I’ve been saying multiple times:
"but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. "
Also, try reading the actual sermon instead of copy/pasting from other websites. You’ll see that Joseph Smith is talking about Jesus, not himself! LOL.
Here’s the entire quote:
"These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt Him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much hath been said."
That was fun. Yes, you’re making it up still.
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