Mormon Doctrine (part 2)

[Pahoran]

That’s all very interesting, but really, how many gods are “one in purpose” in mormonism?

Articles of Faith
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Note that this is an exhaustive list. While many or even most Latter-day Saints may believe that other divine beings exist, the above verse lists all those whom we believe in.

And I think you should ask your wife what she thinks about her children not being allowed to talk to her, ala, mormons can’t pray to their mother-goddess.

If “he that soweth discord among brethren” is an abomination to the LORD (Proverbs 6:19) then how much more one who tries to sow discord in a marriage?

Your clever little “gotchas” rely upon the well-known fact that attack is always more economical than defence. As Catholic apologist Karl Keating wrote:

“It must be admitted, they enjoy a certain tactical (if short-term) advantage in that they can get away with presenting bare-bones claims such as these; they wear out Catholicism’s defenders by inundating them with short remarks that demand long explanations.”

“Short remarks that demand long explanations” are the essential weapons of yourself and the rest of the anti-Mormon platoon here; you’d be lost without them, as you know.

Would it really kill you to let Latter-day Saints expound their own doctrine, as urged by Lutheran Bishop of Stockholm and former Dean of Harvard Divinity School Krister Stendahl, or can you not restrain yourself from rushing in with your well-poisoning accusations and hostile spin?

Regards,
Pahoran

 

[RebeccaJ]

Articles of Faith
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Note that this is an exhaustive list. While many or even most Latter-day Saints may believe that other divine beings exist, the above verse lists all those whom we believe in.

“Heavenly Parents”…is the mother a god or not?

If “he that soweth discord among brethren” is an abomination to the LORD (Proverbs 6:19) then how much more one who tries to sow discord in a marriage?

A serious question. Why do you think it would cause discord?

Your clever little “gotchas” rely upon the well-known fact that attack is always more economical than defence. As Catholic apologist Karl Keating wrote:

“It must be admitted, they enjoy a certain tactical (if short-term) advantage in that they can get away with presenting bare-bones claims such as these; they wear out Catholicism’s defenders by inundating them with short remarks that demand long explanations.”

“Short remarks that demand long explanations” are the essential weapons of yourself and the rest of the anti-Mormon platoon here; you’d be lost without them, as you know.

Pahoran the mind reader. What other talents do you have?

I keep comments short to LDS posters because they trim out long posts in a fashion that ignores the point. So, I keep the point short and clear. No need to trim. I find it interesting that you aren’t the first LDS to find it irritating. Good. It means to me that you can’t twist my words around to answer the question you think I should have asked.

Would it really kill you to let Latter-day Saints expound their own doctrine, as urged by Lutheran Bishop of Stockholm and former Dean of Harvard Divinity School Krister Stendahl, or can you not restrain yourself from rushing in with your well-poisoning accusations and hostile spin?

Regards,
Pahoran

Do questions re:LDS doctrine really bother you that much?

 

[Pahoran]

“Heavenly Parents”…is the mother a god or not?

Not one of the Three we believe in. That is the material point you are trying to distract from.

A serious question. Why do you think it would cause discord?

What other purpose does it serve?

Pahoran the mind reader. What other talents do you have?

No mind-reading involved. I have debated anti-Mormons in dozens of fora; I know the tactics they use, and you are sticking to the standard playbook.

I keep comments short to LDS posters because they trim out long posts in a fashion that ignores the point. So, I keep the point short and clear. No need to trim. I find it interesting that you aren’t the first LDS to find it irritating. Good.

So you, too, aim to provoke believing Latter-day Saints. Thanks for that admission.

It means to me that you can’t twist my words around to answer the question you think I should have asked.

I leave the “twisting” to you, and others who do their best to misrepresent LDS life and teaching.

Do questions re:LDS doctrine really bother you that much?

Not at all; anti-Mormons presumptuously answering them does.

Regards,
Pahoran

 

[RebeccaJ]

Not one of the Three we believe in. That is the material point you are trying to distract from.

No, I’m bringing clarity to the fact that LDS believe in more than one god. You believe in goddesses. It is a fact. How are your own teachings a distraction?

What other purpose does it serve?

To hear the answer.

No mind-reading involved. I have debated anti-Mormons in dozens of fora; I know the tactics they use, and you are sticking to the standard playbook.

You have a playbook?

So you, too, aim to provoke believing Latter-day Saints. Thanks for that admission.

You say that like its a bad thing.

I leave the “twisting” to you, and others who do their best to misrepresent LDS life and teaching.

I don’t misrepresent. I bring it out of the shadows. I think this is a good thing. You should too.

Not at all; anti-Mormons presumptuously answering them does.

You well-poisoner you.

 

[smad0142]

Pahron I just read all the articles of faith and nowhere does it say the list is exhaustive.

 

[Pahoran]

Pahron I just read all the articles of faith and nowhere does it say the list is exhaustive.

It doesn’t have to; it’s implicit in the structure. While we allow for the possible existence of other divine beings, they and they alone are the only ones we believe in.

Regards,
Pahoran

 

[Pahoran]

No, I’m bringing clarity to the fact that LDS believe in more than one god. You believe in goddesses. It is a fact. How are your own teachings a distraction?

No. That is not a fact.

Articles of Faith
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

That we allow for the possibility of the existence of other divine beings is irrelevant; it is our faith in the three members of the Godhead that is alone pertinent to our salvation.

You have a playbook?

I was referring to the anti-Mormon playbook.

You say that like its a bad thing.

No-one I know thinks that trying to provoke contention is a good thing; except for the father of contention, that is.

I don’t misrepresent. I bring it out of the shadows. I think this is a good thing. You should too.

But you don’t “bring it out of the shadows” at all; only providing these things in proper context, by those who actually understand the doctrines in question, could do that. What you do is sensationalise and yes, you misrepresent.

You well-poisoner you.

Do you deny that you actively oppose (anti) the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) in this forum?

If so, when did you stop?

Regards,
Pahoran

 

[SirThomasMore]

Half a truth can be a very great lie.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Not one of the Three we believe in

 

[LongJourney]

Do you deny that you actively oppose (anti) the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) in this forum?

We have every right to oppose your incursions and attempts to convert us in OUR forum. We have every right to counter you when you mock us and our faith in OUR forum.
And we will continue defending ourselves so long as there is need to do so.

 

[Pahoran]

We have every right to oppose your incursions and attempts to convert us in OUR forum. We have every right to counter you when you mock us and our faith in OUR forum.

I’m not attempting to convert you; and I certainly have not mocked your faith.

I respect the Catholic faith. I do not respect anti-Mormon propaganda.

I am defending my faith; yes, in YOUR forum, since that is where it is being attacked.

What are you telling me: That I’m interrupting a private conversation? That you’ll thank me to go away so that you can continue to talk about us behind our backs?

Regards,
Pahoran

 

[LongJourney]

That you’ll thank me to go away so that you can continue to talk about us behind our backs?

LOL whatever. mote and beam, and all. Seems to be your favorite strategy. As a matter of fact, I have seen times when this particular area has been nearly clear of Mormon-related threads. At such times, I also note few LDS characters around. HMMMNNN— must point to something. LOL

 

[Pahoran]

I tell the whole truth. The problem is, you have been living a lie so long, you just can’t see the truth

Really? Let’s test that.

In post 23, you wrote:

Mormon Church- You can become Gods or as Gods

Satan- Genesis 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Do the math

Why then, did you not tell the other half of the truth?

Genesis 3:
22 ¶ And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

In fact you didn’t “tell the whole truth” at all, did you?

SNAP!

Regards,
Pahoran

 

[Pahoran]

LOL whatever. mote and beam, and all. Seems to be your favorite strategy. As a matter of fact, I have seen times when this particular area has been nearly clear of Mormon-related threads. At such times, I also note few LDS characters around. HMMMNNN— must point to something. LOL

I agree.

It points to the fact that we are not trying to butt into Catholics discussing their own faith, but only to defend our faith when it is attacked.

IOW, it supports what I wrote.

Regards,
Pahoran

 

[Caprica]

LOL whatever. mote and beam, and all. Seems to be your favorite strategy. As a matter of fact, I have seen times when this particular area has been nearly clear of Mormon-related threads. At such times, I also note few LDS characters around. HMMMNNN— must point to something. LOL

Yeah, could it be that we generally appear to respond to falsehoods about our religion? Couldn’t be…LOL.

And you may want to see who starts those Mormon-related threads.

 

[LongJourney]

NINE threads on the first page? I don’t think so. If you and your fellows would just go away with your belligerent attitude, I guarantee you, the general attitude towards Mormonism would be greatly improved. And there would be only two or three threads at any one time. And I have been here for more than five years, so I know what I am talking about. I thought I deserved a fresh start a few months ago…

OOOHHH Parker and Murdock are tolerable, and Diana has mellowed with time and experience.

 

[Caprica]

NINE threads on the first page? I don’t think so. If you and your fellows would just go away with your belligerent attitude, I guarantee you, the general attitude towards Mormonism would be greatly improved. And there would be only two or three threads at any one time. And I have been here for more than five years, so I know what I am talking about. I thought I deserved a fresh start a few months ago…

OOOHHH Parker and Murdock are tolerable, and Diana has mellowed with time and experience.

Sorry, this is false. Again, note who starts the vast majority of LDS-related threads. Hint: It isn’t Mormons.

 

[Pahoran]

NINE threads on the first page? I don’t think so.

Then feel free to count how many were started by Latter-day Saint posters.

The day I started (which was only about a week ago) there were only two or three LDS-related threads on the first page. Only a day or so later, a certain poster started bumping a bunch of threads that had had no responses for a long time, apparently to intimidate the defenders. Maybe you should talk to him about it.

If you and your fellows would just go away with your belligerent attitude, I guarantee you, the general attitude towards Mormonism would be greatly improved. And there would be only two or three threads at any one time. And I have been here for more than five years, so I know what I am talking about. I thought I deserved a fresh start a few months ago…

So the number of attack threads is the fault of the defenders, is it?

How does that work, exactly?

“If only those darned Yankees wouldn’t keep shooting back at us, we wouldn’t need to send nearly so many redcoats to keep them in line!”

What’s wrong with this picture?

Regards,
Pahoran

 

[SirThomasMore]

Then feel free to count how many were started by Latter-day Saint posters.

 

[RebeccaJ]

No. That is not a fact.

Articles of Faith
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

That we allow for the possibility of the existence of other divine beings is irrelevant; it is our faith in the three members of the Godhead that is alone pertinent to our salvation.

Salvation is God’s Mercy. His desire is for us to return to Him, which is the purpose of His Mercy. The desire of Christians is to return to God (singular).

LDS require a godess to become a god and be in the presence of your god, so it most certainly is pertinent. The result of Salvation is to live in God’s presence. For LDS “salvation” means living with “heavenly parents”…

“If we could part the veil and observe our heavenly home, we would be impressed with the cultivated minds and hearts of those who so happily live there. I imagine that our heavenly parents are exquisitely refined. In this great gospel of emulation, one of the purposes of our earthly probation is to become like them in every conceivable way so that we may be comfortable in the presence of heavenly parentage and, in the language of Enos, see their faces “with pleasure” (Enos 1:27).”

I was referring to the anti-Mormon playbook.

Yes, I know. I don’t have one, so I was thinking you might have a copy.

No-one I know thinks that trying to provoke contention is a good thing; except for the father of contention, that is.

Being a Christian means to be provoked into action. “Contention” is what you are calling anything you don’t agree with.

But you don’t “bring it out of the shadows” at all; only providing these things in proper context, by those who actually understand the doctrines in question, could do that. What you do is sensationalise and yes, you misrepresent.

That is your opinion.

Do you deny that you actively oppose (anti) the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) in this forum?

I actively oppose what is false.

I have misrepresented nothing.

Julie B. Beck, Relief Society general president: “You are literally spirit daughters of Deity, ‘offspring of exalted parents’ with a divine nature and an eternal destiny. You received your first lessons in the world of spirits from your heavenly parents. You have been sent to earth to ‘prove’ yourselves. …

Our heavenly parents provided us with a celestial home more glorious and beautiful than any place on earth. We were happy there. Yet they knew we could not progress beyond a certain point unless we left them for a time. They wanted us to develop the godlike qualities that they have. To do this, we needed to leave our celestial home to be tested and to gain experience. We needed to choose good over evil. Our spirits needed to be clothed with physical bodies. We would need to leave our physical bodies at death and reunite with them in the Resurrection. Then we would receive immortal bodies like those of our heavenly parents. If we passed our tests, we would receive the fulness of joy that our heavenly parents have received. (See D&C 93:30-34.)

(all quotes are from lds.org)

PS: the proper context of Catholic scripture (the Bible) is the Catholic Church.