Mormonism

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hosemonkey said:
Here is a difinitive statement regarding Joseph Smith’s disregard of Scripture in his use of the occult in inventing the mormon “church.”
"These statements demonstrate that much of the religious ritual within Mormonism finds its origin in both occultism and Freemasonry. It is not surprising that there is an overlap between occultism and Freemasonry within Mormonism since Masonry itself draws from occult lore and ritual. What becomes obvious is that Joseph neglected the Bible’s clear prohibition regarding occult involvement. This is found in Deuteronomy 18:9-12 which states in part,

So here, what we have is not a prophet of God, but a common charlatan who was heavily involved in occultic practices for his own benefit and to amass power over his duped followers.
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It appears that the Mormon Church doesn’t follow much of the Bible but picks and chooses parts that fit it and then ignores the rest. It also appears that Joseph Smith created much of Mormon doctrine in an attempt to rationalize his own behavior (even though that behavior was sinful to the extreme); adultery, the occult, and murder. The last one bothers me the most. How could anyone fall for this horrendous scam?

I’m sorry if this has been covered before. Does the Mormon Church have an official position on abortion and other pro-life issues? And is it true that people who leave the Mormon Church are often shunned by family and (former) friends and that this behavior is condoned by the Mormon Church authority (whatever that is; some posts seem to indicate there is none but some quotes in those posts indicate that there is, so I’m confused about this)?
 
LittleSoldier said:
It appears that the Mormon Church doesn’t follow much of the Bible but picks and chooses parts that fit it and then ignores the rest. It also appears that Joseph Smith created much of Mormon doctrine in an attempt to rationalize his own behavior (even though that behavior was sinful to the extreme); adultery, the occult, and murder. The last one bothers me the most. How could anyone fall for this horrendous scam?

I’m sorry if this has been covered before. Does the Mormon Church have an official position on abortion and other pro-life issues? And is it true that people who leave the Mormon Church are often shunned by family and (former) friends and that this behavior is condoned by the Mormon Church authority (whatever that is; some posts seem to indicate there is none but some quotes in those posts indicate that there is, so I’m confused about this)?
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It is easy to fall for. Trust me. I had come thru a tough time when I first spoke to the missionaries. It seemed the perfect church for me. I was the only person in my family who did not drink alcohol, smoke, or drink hot coffee. When the missionaries taught me, they said all the right things and used all the right words. Remember, the deep and old doctrine that we shine the light on here is NOT taught by the missionaries and not taught in Sunday School, Priesthood Meetings, or in talks from General Authorities during General Conference. Joseph’s true history is not discussed. The 9 versions of the first vision are not mentioned, the teaching that God was once a man is not talked about. If you go to a missionary discussion or a LDS Church Service, they look and act and sound like regular protestants.

I made the mistake of wanting to know more to be a good LDS Apologist and began to read the old history and doctrinal books. It was doing that where I came across the teachings I could not accept and started my journey out of the LDS Church.

But for the casual Mormon, it all looks so good…and the camaraderie is so wonderful.
 
LittleSoldier said:
The Bible states that the Church is the Body of Christ. How could the Church, being the Body of Christ, fail? The Church is present in Heaven as the Church Triumphant but it is also always present on earth as the Church Militant. It is impossible for the Church founded by God to fail on earth or Heaven. It just cannot happen.
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The LDS seem to have no idea of what the Church truly is. The Church belongs to Christ and in a very real way is Christ himself. He dwells within it; body, blood soul and divinity. His Spirit guides the Church into all truth. It is a divine institution, not a human institution. That it why it will never fail because it can only fail if God can fail. Now, an institution such as the LDS church was very clearly started by a man who had nothing more than claim and who convinced some that his claim was true. The Catholic Church was founded by God himself. People within the Church can and do fail, but the Church can never fail because of the One to which it belongs. Christ guards the Church as a bridegroom guards his bride.

Forget the fact that there is not a shred of historical evidence in favor of the so-called “Great Apostasy”. One need only to read the words of Christ himself concerning his promises to his Church to realize that Christ will remain with it to the end of time, therefore the Church, already the oldest institution on earth, will remain until the end of time.
 
Mormonism has an idea that God doesn’t, or maybe can’t, work in the lives of sinners. Their God is waiting around for people to be worthy of Him. They think Catholics, and all Christians, failed at this worthiness, where they have succeeded.
 
TexanKnight said:
Fair enough, though I will take quotes from Saints and Popes over personal quotes any day.

That is a different goal than you have. I am sure you are a great Chaplain. I would like to think I am a pretty ok ex-LDS Missionary.

Be Blessed
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In fact, I consider myself in many ways least among Catholics, so no, I would not expect anyone to listen to my thoughts ABOVE the saints, but at times I feel I am informed by them and I follow them just as you do, so I’d appreciate that understanding.

Y’know, and this is not my place to really come out and say, I don’t picture an “ex-LDS Missionary.” You’re a man who was called, for whatever reason, through the life you lived to who you are today as a Catholic. It can be a great advantage. Not just your knowledge of the differences, but for the living with your journey and the joy of coming home.

Take care.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Mormonism has an idea that God doesn’t, or maybe can’t, work in the lives of sinners. Their God is waiting around for people to be worthy of Him. They think Catholics, and all Christians, failed at this worthiness, where they have succeeded.
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One of the hardest things to accept when I was a practicing Mormon is that other people could have God in their life at all. I mean, really, they didn’t have the right God. Their thoughts of God may have been genuine, but they were very much incomplete. They didn’t have the “truth”. And of course it was my job to save them from their lies.

This may be why so so many of us ex-Mo’s are on this board constantly, talking about the Catholic church. 😃 We were taught as Mormons to evangelize, and now as Catholics we keep with that tradition. We’re just on the other team now, as it were.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Mormonism has an idea that God doesn’t, or maybe can’t, work in the lives of sinners. Their God is waiting around for people to be worthy of Him. They think Catholics, and all Christians, failed at this worthiness, where they have succeeded.
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this is an extremely good point Rebecca.
And this is the mother of all alteration. This is the source of spiritual worthyness and the consequence spiritual proudness.
I loved a passage from St. Cahterine from Siene, when God speaks through her about wrong judgement, when a man judges his own sadness grater then God’s misericordy.
This is the worst sin
“…this is why Juda desperation sadden Me and was worse for My Son then his betrayal. In the same way men will be condemned for this wrong judgement that makes them believe their sin is greater then My Misericordy… they don’t give Me what belongs to Me and they don’t give themselves what belong to them…they have love and compassion for no one other then for themselves…”
This is a translation from French so sorry about the mistakes I have made but I hope you will get the sense of it.

Mormons are not much concerned about God Misericordy since they can earn it by their work.
They are firmly convinced God cannot do anything else then pay for the work they do.

The parabole of the owner of the land and the way he paid the workers is sadly completely out from their knowledge.
 
truthsave said:
this is an extremely good point Rebecca.
And this is the mother of all alteration. This is the source of spiritual worthyness and the consequence spiritual proudness.
I loved a passage from St. Cahterine from Siene, when God speaks through her about wrong judgement, when a man judges his own sadness grater then God’s misericordy.
This is the worst sin
“…this is why Juda desperation sadden Me and was worse for My Son then his betrayal. In the same way men will be condemned for this wrong judgement that makes them believe their sin is greater then My Misericordy… they don’t give Me what belongs to Me and they don’t give themselves what belong to them…they have love and compassion for no one other then for themselves…”
This is a translation from French so sorry about the mistakes I have made but I hope you will get the sense of it.

Mormons are not much concerned about God Misericordy since they can earn it by their work.
They are firmly convinced God cannot do anything else then pay for the work they do.

The parabole of the owner of the land and the way he paid the workers is sadly completely out from their knowledge.
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Yes, the parable, and Romans 5:8

[BIBLEDRB]romans 5:8[/BIBLEDRB]

“Misericordy” isn’t an English word, but the sense of it is the latin misericordia. Mormons don’t use Latin, so to help them out “Mercy” or “Merciful” is derived from the Latin misericordia.

The root of the problem, I believe, is Joseph Smith’s lack of understanding the Bible. It is a historical text, in the sense that the authors of the OT saw in their history God’s Salvation. This is the view we have as well, “Salvation History”.

Mormons don’t see “Salvation History” but instead a history of failure that indicates God’s abandonment of the world. It is really, an atheistic view of things.
 
Allen2Saint said:
In fact, I consider myself in many ways least among Catholics, so no, I would not expect anyone to listen to my thoughts ABOVE the saints, but at times I feel I am informed by them and I follow them just as you do, so I’d appreciate that understanding.

Y’know, and this is not my place to really come out and say, I don’t picture an “ex-LDS Missionary.” You’re a man who was called, for whatever reason, through the life you lived to who you are today as a Catholic. It can be a great advantage. Not just your knowledge of the differences, but for the living with your journey and the joy of coming home.

Take care.
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In all honesty, I do not think I could have ever been Catholic had I not been LDS first. Sometimes, one must fight thru the bad to find the good.
 
TexanKnight said:
It is easy to fall for. Trust me. I had come thru a tough time when I first spoke to the missionaries. It seemed the perfect church for me. I was the only person in my family who did not drink alcohol, smoke, or drink hot coffee. When the missionaries taught me, they said all the right things and used all the right words. Remember, the deep and old doctrine that we shine the light on here is NOT taught by the missionaries and not taught in Sunday School, Priesthood Meetings, or in talks from General Authorities during General Conference. Joseph’s true history is not discussed. The 9 versions of the first vision are not mentioned, the teaching that God was once a man is not talked about. If you go to a missionary discussion or a LDS Church Service, they look and act and sound like regular protestants.

I made the mistake of wanting to know more to be a good LDS Apologist and began to read the old history and doctrinal books. It was doing that where I came across the teachings I could not accept and started my journey out of the LDS Church.

But for the casual Mormon, it all looks so good…and the camaraderie is so wonderful.
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:nope: No mistake. Not at all. You’re where you belong - where we all belong and I’m so happy that you are here! Wasn’t it Scott Hahn who prayed to teach those Catholics the truth when he was a Protestant minister? His prayer was answered. He now teaches Catholics the truth as a Catholic. Just like you. 👍
 
Texan Knight. I enjoy your posts and appreciate the information you provide. It helps my conversations with an LDS friend of mine.
 
TexanKnight said:
In all honesty, I do not think I could have ever been Catholic had I not been LDS first.
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Why, I don’t mean to be pugnacious or all “in your face” but I am curious because many have come from other places and even more have been here all along. If you don’t want to explain that’s fine it’s sort of a personal question and I’m not really one to answer them so it’s unreasonable of me to expect an answer:)
 
Being Catholic;

Little end-times hysteria and speculation
Freedom to be as Catholic as you want to be.
The wisdom of two thousand years of following Christ
The rigorous training of priests-- highly qualified to do what they do
Balance between intellect and emotion
Sacraments
Devotional practices- again, a wide range
A broad definition of sin, and solid system of ethics
Consistent respect for life
Psychologically valid
Respect for women
Recognizes individuality and cultural diversity
Provides a place for every person based on their predispositions- from contemplative isolation from society to the married life.
For those who have been negatively affected by whacko belief systems, a way to “rebel” against them-- “there is opposition in all things”

I am sure there are more reasons to be Catholic------
To be Catholic simply because Catholicism is not Mormonism isn’t enough.
 
zaffiroborant said:
Why, I don’t mean to be pugnacious or all “in your face” but I am curious because many have come from other places and even more have been here all along. If you don’t want to explain that’s fine it’s sort of a personal question and I’m not really one to answer them so it’s unreasonable of me to expect an answer:)
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I grew up Protestant, then became LDS. All I ever heard was anti-Catholic stuff, especially as a Mormon. There was no way I would ever be Catholic.

But, first, studying LDS made me realize that there actually SHOULD only be One True Church. I had never considered that before. So, being LDS made me open to that concept.

Second, my mission was in Honduras. 98% Catholic. Everywhere I went, there was a Catholic Church. Was amazed me was the reverence shown in a Catholic Church. The LDS church does not have that kind of reverence, except in a temple. The Sac Meetings are very irreverent. Soon, I was drawn to the Catholic Church buildings. I would go and sit in those Honduran Catholic Buildings just to enjoy the peace and reverence. Even though I was anti-Catholic, I sure enjoyed that.

So, take those two factors, and after I left the LDS Church, it was only a matter of time before I would be coming home.
 
Jerusha said:
Being Catholic;

Little end-times hysteria and speculation
Freedom to be as Catholic as you want to be.
The wisdom of two thousand years of following Christ
The rigorous training of priests-- highly qualified to do what they do
Balance between intellect and emotion
Sacraments
Devotional practices- again, a wide range
A broad definition of sin, and solid system of ethics
Consistent respect for life
Psychologically valid
Respect for women
Recognizes individuality and cultural diversity
Provides a place for every person based on their predispositions- from contemplative isolation from society to the married life.
For those who have been negatively affected by whacko belief systems, a way to “rebel” against them-- “there is opposition in all things”

I am sure there are more reasons to be Catholic------
To be Catholic simply because Catholicism is not Mormonism isn’t enough.
Click to expand...
To me it’s like there is a raging river and one has to cross it somehow. The Church has built a sturdy bridge, wide and strong, and it’s so easy to cross - you just walk over that river. You might get a bit wet but you’re not going to drown.

With some Protestant denominations there is a shaky bridge and when people cross it they find it very difficult and sometimes they get very wet and sometimes they fall into the water and drown.

With organizations such as what is called the Mormon Church you are mostly on your own. If you are given any help it’s in the form of a boat that you have to find a pump for and then you find out it has a leak. Or they will throw you a life ring if you’re in the water but it’s not on a line long enough to reach you. You might get across. You might drown. You might be carried way down the rapids and smashed against the rocks.

To me it makes sense to use the best way across that river and it is the Catholic Church. I have no experience in being a Mormon or being involved in any non-Catholic Christian denomination. Even when I was agnostic/atheist I still really thought of myself as Catholic. When I had my first panic attack the first thing I did was pray the Hail Mary over and over.

I guess I was blessed to have two parents that were/are both Catholic. Unfortunately they were fallible and didn’t do the best job in showing charity to my siblings and myself. So I had to struggle to find my way. I think most people do and maybe my parents were struggling in their own way and that’s why they sometimes failed me. Of their four children two are Catholic, one has just started to believe in God, and one is…well, to be honest, I have no idea what he is.

If some Mormons had come along at the right time I would probably have gone with them. We’re all vulnerable at some point in our lives. I was blessed to not have that happen to me.

Thank you, God. And thanks, Mom and Dad.
 
TexanKnight said:
I grew up Protestant, then became LDS. All I ever heard was anti-Catholic stuff, especially as a Mormon. There was no way I would ever be Catholic.

But, first, studying LDS made me realize that there actually SHOULD only be One True Church. I had never considered that before. So, being LDS made me open to that concept.

Second, my mission was in Honduras. 98% Catholic. Everywhere I went, there was a Catholic Church. Was amazed me was the reverence shown in a Catholic Church. The LDS church does not have that kind of reverence, except in a temple. The Sac Meetings are very irreverent. Soon, I was drawn to the Catholic Church buildings. I would go and sit in those Honduran Catholic Buildings just to enjoy the peace and reverence. Even though I was anti-Catholic, I sure enjoyed that.

So, take those two factors, and after I left the LDS Church, it was only a matter of time before I would be coming home.
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Ah that makes sense, Protestantism is not big on the idea of one church(beyond “we are part of it”) and won’t even acknowledge the notion that authority would be important 🙂 Well at least the LDS church accomplished on good thing in your life:D
 
zaffiroborant said:
Ah that makes sense, Protestantism is not big on the idea of one church(beyond “we are part of it”) and won’t even acknowledge the notion that authority would be important 🙂 Well at least the LDS church accomplished on good thing in your life:D
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Yep. I do not regret being LDS, I regret how it ended
 
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