Most Catholic women use birth control banned by church

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wanner47 said:
Serap, I’m curious, what are you dealing with? Do you deny that the Church has the fullness of truth? :confused:

Protestantism was *founded *as a rejection of the Church. The thing was that the founders probably didn’t intend to reject Christ, but the fact is that they did so by trying to remake Christ in their own image, and by usurping the teaching authority that Christ gave only to His Church and replacing it with sola scriptura.

That does NOT mean that all Protestants are damned, as you seem to think we think, because most Protestants have invincible ignorance in this regard.
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But what about Catholics who feel the same way as Luther did 500 years ago, but become Cafeteria Catholics instead of rejecting the church?
 
Serap said:
But what about Catholics who feel the same way as Luther did 500 years ago, but become Cafeteria Catholics instead of rejecting the church?
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They are in the same situation as anyone who rejects Christs Church. Threy will have to depend on a merciful God and hope they can claim to be afflicted with invincible ignorance.
 
Serap said:
The thing is though that Luther did have the whole truth and didn’t like the way the church was at that time. It was considered heresy for someone to actually read the bible! Lutheran wanted everyone to have access to the bible for their own reading. This was at first very scary for the church.

This is my take and correct me if my history is wrong.

So if Luther DID have the whole truth, then he knowingly rejected Christ? See, this confuses me b/c Luther was a devout Christian to my knowledge.
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It WAS NOT a heresy to read the Bible. You really do need to learn more about the Catholic faith and its history. You are wrong on many points and I am certain you are not intentionally wrong. 🙂
 
Serap said:
The thing is though that Luther did have the whole truth and didn’t like the way the church was at that time. It was considered heresy for someone to actually read the bible! Lutheran wanted everyone to have access to the bible for their own reading. This was at first very scary for the church.

This is my take and correct me if my history is wrong.

So if Luther DID have the whole truth, then he knowingly rejected Christ? See, this confuses me b/c Luther was a devout Christian to my knowledge.
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It was never heresy to read the Bible. The Church was never afraid of people reading the Bible-after all they gave us the Bible. Luther did indeed reject the Church Christ founded. I am afraid that Luther would have a hard time claiming invincible ignorance but that is between him and his maker.
 
irishpatrick said:
It WAS NOT a heresy to read the Bible. You really do need to learn more about the Catholic faith and its history. You are wrong on many points and I am certain you are not intentionally wrong. 🙂
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This is absolutely correct. What the Church discouraged was reading heretical translations; for example, the Reformation-era equivalent of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation.
 
wanner47 said:
This is absolutely correct. What the Church discouraged was reading heretical translations; for example, the Reformation-era equivalent of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation.
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Exactly…and how anyone can see that as being wrong, I will not ever understand.

A ton of people hold bad feelings for the Church and yet they often do not even understand what the Church actually teaches. I have family members in that group–sadly.
 
NewEnglandPries said:
You’re making academic and canonical distinctions that simply don’t exist for the average person in the pew. The average person isn’t a theologian and isn’t trying to be.
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Sadly, the average Catholic isn’t even in the pew. 😦
 
rotlex said:
You should visit my neck of the woods. Most Sunday’s, and Saturday evenings, it’s hard to get a parking spot, let alone a place to actually sit. 🙂
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I live between two parishes. Same case for both. 🙂
 
rotlex said:
You should visit my neck of the woods. Most Sunday’s, and Saturday evenings, it’s hard to get a parking spot, let alone a place to actually sit. 🙂
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Imagine how packed it would be if the ~80% that don’t bother to attend regularly started attending every Sunday.
 
Warrenton said:
If these numbers are true, they tell us little.

The important thing is not how many people sin, which is 100%, but how many are forgiven.

When will they do a poll asking how many Catholics seek absolution for their sins?
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:amen:
 
rotlex said:
You should visit my neck of the woods. Most Sunday’s, and Saturday evenings, it’s hard to get a parking spot, let alone a place to actually sit. 🙂
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My church also 🤷

I guess most of us parishners are going on the express elevator to the basement, according to posters on this thread. 🤷
 
It’s a very tought thing, particularly in this culture to fight the issue of ABC. My wife and I are currently struggling as well, we just had our first child (a true miricle) who was born under less than ideal circomstanses.

My wife suffered sever preeclampsia, she ultimatly gave birth at 32 weeks due to plummeting platelet counts. We’re naturally worried about getting pregnant again too quickly, and not for no good reason. We want her to have enough time to recover, and even time to get in better shape for the next one.

So with this, and the natural propesity people have to post “bad news” rather than good in family forums… i.e. “we just had a baby despite doing NFP perfectly”, rather than “yet another baby free NFP month”, the issue of regulation of birth has been one weighing heavily on our hearts.

We both understand the great importance of doing our best to be honest Christians for our children. How can we expect our beautiful daughter to honestly seek the kingdom, when she see’s her parents so readily dismissing inconvinent Church teaching.

But still, that doesn’t mean Satan and his ally the world don’t make ABC look “highly effective” by compraison, and “easy” as well.
 
Serap said:
No, it’s the Holier Than Though attitude that is quite a put off, frankly.
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Serap, I don’t think anyone by pointing out what the teachings of the Church are, is being “holier than thou”.

Objectively speaking ABC use is a mortal sin.

Some people haven’t had good religious training and are ignorant of what the Church teaches. Some people might not care what the Church teaches.

What if there was a poll, “98 percent of Catholics shoplift”

Should we say, “shoplifting is wrong” or should we say, “I think the Church should change Her rules on shoplifting.” or

“Shop lifting and charging things really are the same thing, you get something you don’t have the immediate cash for.”
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
Serap, I don’t think anyone by pointing out what the teachings of the Church are, is being “holier than thou”.

Objectively speaking ABC use is a mortal sin.

Some people haven’t had good religious training and are ignorant of what the Church teaches. Some people might not care what the Church teaches.

What if there was a poll, “98 percent of Catholics shoplift”

Should we say, “shoplifting is wrong” or should we say, “I think the Church should change Her rules on shoplifting.” or

“Shop lifting and charging things really are the same thing, you get something you don’t have the immediate cash for.”
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I don’t think that shop lifting can really be compared to ABC. Shoplifting hurts someone (business owner) financially.

ABC is two married persons wishing to avoid having another child which is not unlike two married persons using NFP to avoid having another child. These two married persons are not hurting another person.

I am not using ABC per se; I am just stating what many many people feel and don’t share on CAF due to the strong opposition.
 
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