Most Catholic women use birth control banned by church

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dfp42 said:
I agree. I would say it’s a faith disagreement and not a good faith disagreement. If we start saying we made a good faith disagreement then we start saying it’s okay to sin because my good faith disagreement conscience told me it’s good for me.
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And if you blindly follow everything told to you, and stop thinking on your own, it’s called a cult. Please don’t take that wrong, I agree nearly 100% with Church teachings. I understand the reason behind the structure, laws etc. However, on certain issues, such as non abortive contraception, even the Orthodox agree that if a married couple has been open to life, has children etc., these types of things can be discussed with a spiritual father, and options are available. To simply say it is NFP or nothing, is well, not right, IMO. (Besides the fact that I’ll bet you 95% of the people using NFP are using it strictly as birth control anyway).
 
rotlex said:
And if you blindly follow everything told to you, and stop thinking on your own, it’s called a cult. Please don’t take that wrong, I agree nearly 100% with Church teachings. I understand the reason behind the structure, laws etc. However, on certain issues, such as non abortive contraception, even the Orthodox agree that if a married couple has been open to life, has children etc., these types of things can be discussed with a spiritual father, and options are available. To simply say it is NFP or nothing, is well, not right, IMO. (Besides the fact that I’ll bet you 95% of the people using NFP are using it strictly as birth control anyway).
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Even though I personally see where your coming from (and pretty much agree with you) I get the feeling not many other people will.
 
Wow even a doubt…

"Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;

the word must is subjective to many people it seems…
 
1holycatholic said:
No, it’s heresy.

A Catholic who willingly embraces what they know to be contrary to revealed truth is a formal heretic. There is no such thing as a good faith disagreement. Heresy incurs automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication.
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In that case it looks like 98% of Catholics are heretics. Seems likely to me that the other 2% disagree with the Church on something, so maybe we are all heretics.
 
This poll is sad. It shows how desperate Catholics are and how Catholics refuse to come together as a community to help each other. How often do I meet fellow Catholics from my parish outside of church? Rarely. Most people in church dont know their fellow parishioners.

It does give me good reason to be single. 98% of all the Catholic women out there will lead me into mortal sin and heresy. Not very good odds. I stand a better chance of hitting the jackpot in Vegas.

I wish I could say it was surprising though. Go to a “Catholic” university and you will see most Catholic girls are like village bicycles for college guys. At least most evangelical girls dont act that way. They might use ABC but if Evangelical churches taught ABC was wrong I bet their numbers would be a lot lower.
 
TMC said:
In that case it looks like 98% of Catholics are heretics. Seems likely to me that the other 2% disagree with the Church on something, so maybe we are all heretics.
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I think we need to be careful with what words we throw around. I don’t think the church demands unquestioning mindless obedience. That is what seems more cult like to me than anything else.

Maybe I’m wrong-maybe questioning or doubting is the death sentence. I’m not a member of church leadership, so I don’t know.
 
TMC said:
In that case it looks like 98% of Catholics are heretics. Seems likely to me that the other 2% disagree with the Church on something, so maybe we are all heretics.
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No 98% of sexually active female catholics have used birth control at one point in their lives (according to this somewhat dubious, in my mind, study). Some could have repented and not be using now.
 
rotlex said:
And if you blindly follow everything told to you, and stop thinking on your own, it’s called a cult. Please don’t take that wrong, I agree nearly 100% with Church teachings. I understand the reason behind the structure, laws etc. However, on certain issues, such as non abortive contraception, even the Orthodox agree that if a married couple has been open to life, has children etc., these types of things can be discussed with a spiritual father, and options are available. To simply say it is NFP or nothing, is well, not right, IMO. (Besides the fact that I’ll bet you 95% of the people using NFP are using it strictly as birth control anyway).
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So if I pray/talk to God, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and listen to my spiritual director/confessor without doing things for myself, I’m in a cult? What exactly are you trying to say man? That somehow I need to take matters into my own hands and exclude God? I understand that you agree nearly 100% but there’s always a but isn’t there?

Watch out for those Catholic buts :eek:
I’m a Catholic but…
I’m a Catholic but…
I’m a Catholic but…
 
Rascalking said:
I think we need to be careful with what words we throw around. I don’t think the church demands unquestioning mindless obedience. That is what seems more cult like to me than anything else.

Maybe I’m wrong-maybe questioning or doubting is the death sentence. I’m not a member of church leadership, so I don’t know.
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That was the point I was trying to make. If you start saying anyone that has any problem with anything the Church teaches is not a real Catholic, I think there would be virtually no “real” Catholics. Fortunately, (despite what you hear on this forum and a few other websites) that is not the way the Church works.
 
TMC said:
That was the point I was trying to make. If you start saying anyone that has any problem with anything the Church teaches is not a real Catholic, I think there would be virtually no “real” Catholics. Fortunately, (despite what you hear on this forum and a few other websites) that is not the way the Church works.
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Oh, I’m sorry if I stole your thunder or tried to copy you.
 
TMC said:
In that case it looks like 98% of Catholics are heretics. Seems likely to me that the other 2% disagree with the Church on something, so maybe we are all heretics.
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If we are all heretics, perhaps 98% of them should go to confession and the other 2% shouldn’t?
 
rotlex said:
And if you blindly follow everything told to you, and stop thinking on your own, it’s called a cult. Please don’t take that wrong, I agree nearly 100% with Church teachings. I understand the reason behind the structure, laws etc. However, on certain issues, such as non abortive contraception, even the Orthodox agree that if a married couple has been open to life, has children etc., these types of things can be discussed with a spiritual father, and options are available. To simply say it is NFP or nothing, is well, not right, IMO. (Besides the fact that I’ll bet you 95% of the people using NFP are using it strictly as birth control anyway).
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NFP muddies the water so to speak. NFP is the alternative to abstinence if there is a just reason to use it. NFP is not the norm. I can see how believing that NFP use to avoid is the norm could lead to much confusion regarding condoms and other non abortive forms of birth control. It can lead to the idea that sexual pleasure can be separated from procreation…that sexual pleasure without possibility of children is somehow our right.
 
TMC said:
In that case it looks like 98% of Catholics are heretics. Seems likely to me that the other 2% disagree with the Church on something, so maybe we are all heretics.
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It’s may be high, but you’re being hyperbolic. Even if 98% of Catholics knowingly disagree with Church teaching were true, then woe unto that 98%. Church teaching is not a popularity contest.

Mass attendance is one of the precepts of the Church. It’s tough to believe that ~80% of Catholics don’t know that Mass attendance is required for those able to attend. 🤷

cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/ccp.jpg
 
1holycatholic said:
It’s may be high, but you’re being hyperbolic. Even if 98% of Catholics knowingly disagree with Church teaching were true, then woe unto that 98%. Church teaching is not a popularity contest.

Mass attendance is one of the precepts of the Church. It’s tough to believe that ~80% of Catholics don’t know that Mass attendance is required for those able to attend. 🤷
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1HolyCatholic-

You seem like a really nice person, and I am NOT accusing you of this, but be careful not to be holier than thou. or think that one person is a “better” Catholic than another. A self righteous, arrogant jerk who goes to church every week might be in the moral category as a Catholic who uses birth control.

Again, I am NOT calling you self righteous and arrogant! :o
 
TMC said:
That was the point I was trying to make. If you start saying anyone that has any problem with anything the Church teaches is not a real Catholic, I think there would be virtually no “real” Catholics. Fortunately, (despite what you hear on this forum and a few other websites) that is not the way the Church works.
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mitigating factors involved? Is there a difference between having a problem and disagreeing and doubting?
 
dfp42 said:
mitigating factors involved? Is there a difference between having a problem and disagreeing and doubting?
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I don’t know what you are referrig to as mitigating factors. To me, having a problem, disagreeing and doubting are synonyms in this context.
 
TMC said:
That was the point I was trying to make. If you start saying anyone that has any problem with anything the Church teaches is not a real Catholic, I think there would be virtually no “real” Catholics. Fortunately, (despite what you hear on this forum and a few other websites) that is not the way the Church works.
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Once someone becomes Catholic they’re Catholic ad aeternum.

That’s no guarantee that they can’t become an apostate, heretic or schismatic.

They’d still be Catholic though and they would be free to repent and reconcile with the Church.

There is no such thing as pick and choose Catholicism. It’s a package deal - all or nothing.
 
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