Most Catholic women use birth control banned by church

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revert_jen said:
Amen!

Nobody, including the Pope, follows the teachings of the Church 100% of the time. There are lots of us out there that are obedient to the Church in her judgement of what is a sin (yes, 100%), but just keep sinning because, well, we are sinners.

As for the statistics, I frankly didn’t believe them until I saw that they were qualified down to the point where they were nearly meaningless. 98% of sexually active Catholic women have ever used any form of birth control at all? Yeah, I can probably buy that. Any woman who has had sex where a condom was used even once in her life fits into this category.

I fit into this category myself. I “went through a form of marriage” outside the Church, and we used condoms in our “marriage” (before the divorce and the declaration of lack of form or whatever it was called). That isn’t the same as saying I would do the same now, were I to get sacramentally married. Plus, I would show up as a weekly church-goer who has used contraception, even though the weekly (Catholic) church-going and the contraception never happened at the same time in my life.

Basically, they designed the questionnaire to show what they wanted to show. It’s not really that hard to do. They wanted a particular headline and they got it.

And survey data is not particularly scientifically relevant anyway, because people do lie, forget, misremember, and misunderstand. The fact that you can’t think of a reason why someone would lie in a particular direction doesn’t mean that nobody did it.

–Jen
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I’m in that category too. My husband and I were in the ELCA for the first two years of our marriage, and we used condoms and the Pill. We’ve been using NFP since 2003 and are totally faithful to the Church’s teachings regarding contraception.

If the Church ever “changes its mind” on the contraception issue, I will become atheist, because it will mean that the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Church and Jesus was a liar (which means he was lying about being God, too).

I’m serious.

I have read and studied all the papal documents discussing contraception – Casti Connubii, Humanae Vitae, etc. – and there is no possible way the church could ever or would ever change Her teachings on this issue. I repeat, no possible way. There is no way to reconcile today’s teaching with any future teaching about any sort of contraception being acceptable.

Serap, that story about your seminarian friends makes me very sad. If they dissent from the Church in this area now, chances are they will counsel their parishioners to use contraception, and in doing so lead others into sin. 😦
 
Serap said:
we’ll see when this generation of new priests eventually become the future pope in 30 or so years.

It’s definitely interesting.

I still see how many people are very angry with Vatican II as it was a huge change for traditional Catholics. Many still wear a veil b/c they disagree with new teachings for women’s dress in church.

It is very interesting to say the least.
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I guess we need to fervently need to pray for Priests faithful to God, and the Church.😦
 
Serap said:
we’ll see when this generation of new priests eventually become the future pope in 30 or so years.

It’s definitely interesting.

I still see how many people are very angry with Vatican II as it was a huge change for traditional Catholics. Many still wear a veil b/c they disagree with new teachings for women’s dress in church.

It is very interesting to say the least.
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Wearing a veil is totally optional, you know. It was never banned or forbidden. I’ve actually considered starting to wear one to Mass, because it just feels more respectful to God. 🤷

I think you’re seeing anger at what people did in the name of Vatican II, as opposed to being angry at Vatican II itself. In my experience, most people who are “angry at Vatican II” haven’t actually read any of the council documents and are just angry atabuses committed “in the spirit of Vatican II.”
 
rotlex said:
I know the Church teaches and approves of NFP. I would use it only as contraception. Yes, I admit that, so really, what’s the difference? Should I kid myself that it’s OK now as I’m sure others do? Should I leave the Church and join a denomination that is OK with non abortive contraception? Really, I have no idea. And to be honest, speaking with anyone outside of these forums, yields very different responses. Yes, even responses from priests themselves.
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Roltex I do respect your upfront honesty.

Joining another denomination would not change the nature of the sin. It is a sin for every human, although many may not realize it.

For what its worth there is not a free pass to use NFP. Depending on the document (or translation) it requires grave/just/serious reasons to be used. Again it is an alternative to abstinence. I would not characterize NFP as being taught and approved by the Church, rather as allowed under certain conditions. It is allowed, because it is purely knowledge, it is how we intend to use that knowledge that could be sinful if used for the wrong reasons.

I think I understand your situation. You are faced with a sacrifice. That too, sacrifice, is an important part of being a Catholic. The sacrifice could be to go without relations with your spouse, it could be to have additional children, it could be to have a dangerous pregnancy, etc. By living with such a sacrifice, we know that we are at least in this area, putting God before ourselves. One thing I have concluded about this is there is no way that I am going to put my spouse or allow my spouse to be in a potentially sinful situation (although abc is not and has never been on the table in our situation, but it is the same concept).
 
wanner47 said:
I’m in that category too. My husband and I were in the ELCA for the first two years of our marriage, and we used condoms and the Pill. We’ve been using NFP since 2003 and are totally faithful to the Church’s teachings regarding contraception.

If the Church ever “changes its mind” on the contraception issue, I will become atheist, because it will mean that the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Church and Jesus was a liar (which means he was lying about being God, too). I’m serious.

I have read and studied all the papal documents discussing contraception – Casti Connubii, Humanae Vitae, etc. – and there is no possible way the church could ever or would ever change Her teachings on this issue. I repeat, no possible way. There is no way to reconcile today’s teaching with any future teaching about any sort of contraception being acceptable.

Serap, that story about your seminarian friends makes me very sad. If they dissent from the Church in this area now, chances are they will counsel their parishioners to use contraception, and in doing so lead others into sin. 😦
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Jesus never lied Wanner, so don’t worry. :hug1:

I’m sad too, re the seminarians. I was under the impression that today’s seminarians were orthodox compared to the past .😦
 
rotlex said:
This, I do for sure. (Regarding confession, and an attempt to not sin again). However, the contraception issue is huge, I’m sure not just for me, but for a lot of “good” Catholics out there. What is one to seriously do when they simply know they will continue to repeat said sin. Seriously. Repeat it for a number of reasons, not the least of which is they truly do not believe that it is sin. Leave the Church? Hardly, I am pretty much in agreement with all the teachings of the Catholic Church, except this one. Why? To be honest, I simply do not think the Church is right on the issue.

I know the Church teaches and approves of NFP. I would use it only as contraception. Yes, I admit that, so really, what’s the difference? Should I kid myself that it’s OK now as I’m sure others do? Should I leave the Church and join a denomination that is OK with non abortive contraception? Really, I have no idea. And to be honest, speaking with anyone outside of these forums, yields very different responses. Yes, even responses from priests themselves.

I’ll probably cut out of this thread at this point, as I’ve probably offended someone, and really don’t mean to do that.

Take care all, and God bless.
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I think it’s impossible to use NFP as contraception. Contraception literally translates to “against conception.” It’s the act of deliberately rending oneself sterile at some point before or during the marital act. It’s preventing already-ejaculated sperm from reaching an egg. NFP can’t and doesn’t do any of that.

You may find this blog post helpful: Why Doesn’t the Church Make a List?

I would rather that someone use NFP “selfishly” than use contraception at all. Along the lines of what B16 said in “Light of the World,” at least the use of NFP might serve as an awakening to a greater morality.

Also, we can always choose not to sin. Is it difficult? Yes. Extremely difficult? Sometimes, yes. But no one is ever forced to sin. It is always a choice. If it wasn’t, it would negate our free will.
 
So the “researchers” asked every Catholic woman, huh? I’ll remember to ask my wife when they asked her. Oh wait, she must have part of the 2% :rolleyes:
 
irishpatrick said:
•25% describe themselves as Catholic, 25% as evangelical, and 22% as mainline Protestant
•30% of Catholic women attend Mass weekly, while 50% of evangelicals and 24% of mainline Protestants worship weekly
•46% of Catholic women say religion is very important to their daily lives, compared to 77% of evangelicals and 44% of mainline Protestants
•98% of Catholic women-- and 99% of all women-- have at one time used artificial contraception.
•“68% of Catholic women use highly effective methods: sterilization (32%, including 24% using female sterilization,) the pill or another hormonal method (31%) and the IUD (5%).
•“Only 3% of married Catholic women who do not want to become pregnant rely on natural family planning; 72% use highly effective methods, including 40% who rely on sterilization.”

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=9990
How can we feel surprised by those numbers? Is it not obvious that there is at the very least a mild (yet still wide spread) apostasy in place now?
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:sad_yes::crying: Given these statistics where does that leave the strong effective support of the Abortion Issue amongst true Catholics.

This is heartbreaking if the statistics are legit.

Peace
Chris
 
CatholicFireman said:
So the “researchers” asked every Catholic woman, huh? I’ll remember to ask my wife when they asked her. Oh wait, she must have part of the 2% :rolleyes:
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They never seem to do that, do they? Ask the people who AREN’T contracepting!
 
centurionguard said:
:sad_yes::crying: Given these statistics where does that leave the strong effective support of the Abortion Issue amongst true Catholics.

This is heartbreaking if the statistics are legit.

Peace
Chris
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I think abortion is a very, very different issue to a lot of folks, including non-Catholics. Being open again here, but as I stated a few times now, I am not against non abortive types of contraception; neither is my wife. However, we are both staunch anti-abotion\pro life. Abortion is an issue that pushes my limits, and I find it hard to have even a calm conversation with anyone who is “pro choice” regarding it. I don’t think you can compare it at all vs ABC.
 
TMC said:
The Church teaches that it is possible, it is called sensus fidelium.
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CCC # 92
“The whole body of the faithful. . . cannot err in matters of belief. This characteristic is shown in the supernatural appreciation of faith (sensus fidei) on the part of the whole people, when, from the bishops to the last of the faithful, they manifest a universal consent in matters of faith and morals.”
Dissenters are not the faithful, they’re heretics.

You should read Cardinal Newman’s writings on the sensus fidei.

Newman’s five points about the sensus fidei:

  1. *]Follows the Magisterium.
    *]Pays attention to those who have suffered for the faith.
    *]Pays attention to the devout.
    *]Expansive geographically and across time.
    *]There can only be development of doctrine, not change.
 
CatholicFireman said:
So the “researchers” asked every Catholic woman, huh? I’ll remember to ask my wife when they asked her. Oh wait, she must have part of the 2% :rolleyes:
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Polls ask questions of a sample of the population, not the whole. New to polling methods?
 
wanner47 said:
If the Church ever “changes its mind” on the contraception issue, I will become atheist, because it will mean that the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Church and Jesus was a liar (which means he was lying about being God, too).

I’m serious.
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Well, I certainly hope you are not serious, or that if it happens you change your mind. Jesus said nothing about contraception so I don’t see why the Church changing its teaching in anyway on this one small area of its teaching would shatter anyone’s faith. The Church has made similar adjustments to the way the faith is applied to our daily lives in the past, and I am sure others will happen in the future. Birth control may or may not be one of those things, but it could well be.
 
TMC said:
Well, I certainly hope you are not serious, or that if it happens you change your mind. Jesus said nothing about contraception so I don’t see why the Church changing its teaching in anyway on this one small area of its teaching would shatter anyone’s faith. The Church has made similar adjustments to the way the faith is applied to our daily lives in the past, and I am sure others will happen in the future. Birth control may or may not be one of those things, but it could well be.
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The Catholic Church holds the entire deposit of the faith entrusted to her by Christ. The deposit of the faith cannot change. The Church has always taught that contraception is intrinsically evil. That truth is part of the deposit of the faith and it’s never going to change.
 
1holycatholic said:
The Catholic Church holds the entire deposit of the faith entrusted to her by Christ. The deposit of the faith cannot change. The Church has always taught that contraception is intrinsically evil. That truth is part of the deposit of the faith and it’s never going to change.
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We never know. Let’s try to remember that none of us know the future (or, if any of us do, can you help me out with some stock tips!?).
 
The debate about what is or is not part of the “Deposit of the Faith” shows why there will be a schism in the western Church. We have too many doubters who use relativistic arguments to attempt to quietly modify the teachings of Holy Mother Church!
The Truth is the Truth. Period. End of discussion.

The Second Epistle of St. Paul to Timothy; Chapter 4

“[1]I charge thee, before God and Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead, by his coming, and his kingdom: [2] Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. [3] For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: [4] And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. [5] But be thou vigilant, labour in all things, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill thy ministry. Be sober.”

Pax Christi
 
dmorgan said:
The debate about what is or is not part of the “Deposit of the Faith” shows why there will be a schism in the western Church. We have too many doubters who use relativistic arguments to attempt to quietly modify the teachings of Holy Mother Church!
The Truth is the Truth. Period. End of discussion.

The Second Epistle of St. Paul to Timothy; Chapter 4

“[1]I charge thee, before God and Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead, by his coming, and his kingdom: [2] Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. [3] For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: [4] And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. [5] But be thou vigilant, labour in all things, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill thy ministry. Be sober.”

Pax Christi
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Yeah but…I feel …

j/k

God Bless you
 
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