Most Catholic women use birth control banned by church

[Rence]

Take consolation in knowing that many clergy have been against some church teachings for the past 2,000 years and the gates have not prevailed.

This is nothing knew. It has been around for 2,000 years.

I think that’s evidenced by the fact that many people (including my parents) were told by their family priest that ABCs were a matter of conscience…another woman I know was told by her pastor that she was given a special dispensation for a tubal ligation (the pastor, through his church of course, was giving the family money to help raise their kids, and this he told her, after she announced her 8th pregnancy).

People forget that clergy are just human like everyone else, and they have different personalities like everyone else. You’re going to have the fire-and-brimstone priests who pound on the pulpit about every sin he might think another person will ever encounter. And then on the opposite side of the spectrum you will have priests who completely symathize with their parishioners and can’t stand to watch them suffer…so they’ll bend the rules to help them…

 

[estesbob]

I can imagine an early Christian using the same argument to justify certain forms of slavery

I guess if one actually believed that the Church ever approved of slavery this would be correct but the truth is the church never did.

 

[Rence]

Stand on a street corner and yell that at the top of your lungs. See how many people you can win over to the Catholic church.

Not many LOL. and when people do yell all fire-and-brimstone to a person, it makes it doubly difficult for people like me who are trying to teach people the evils of contraception and the goodness and reliablity of NFP. They just don’t care because they think NFP is a Catholic teaching. Where I live now, people don’t wanna hear that I’m Catholic, let alone what the Church teaches

 

[wanner47]

I guess if one actually believed that the Church ever approved of slavery this would be correct but the truth is the church never did.

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907fea2.asp

 

[crazzeto]

It’s funny you should mention that. I’ve never met anyone who was using NFP. And I know some pretty loving and happy couples that are using ABCs… the notion that people are hurting themselves and each other by using ABCs as always an odd Church teacing to me. And I’m sure to many others as well…

My wife and I are committed to NFP, I know many loving couples that use NFP. The best part about using NFP is that you can in good contience, receive all the sacraments of the Church.

That said, regardless of how loving a contracepting couple is, that really doesn’t change the fact that they are objectivly sinning. Here’s an example, upon my reading of the passion, Pontious Pilot really doesn’t come off as a “bad guy”. He was the judge technically, but he relinquished this authority in favor of playing defence for Christ (to some extent) and made the Jews (the ones literally at his trial) judges.

Yet objectivly speaking, despite some measure of sympathy I have for Pilot… Christ still suffered, and was crusified under pilot. Objectivly speaking, Pilot sinned, gravely in his cowardous and inaction to protect the innocent lamb.

Being loving and happy doesn’t mean your not sinning.

 

[Rence]

Boy, I’m glad Jesus was different.

Abusing a child… I’m not going there! I was abused as a child and it’s not something to throw around.

Uhm…yeah…I don’t get how abusing a child (which certainly warrants one or a few people to come forward about) can compare to taking ABCs, or following another religion other than Catholicism

 

[wanner47]

Uhm…yeah…I don’t get how abusing a child (which certainly warrants one or a few people to come forward about) can compare to taking ABCs, or following another religion other than Catholicism

Objectively, they are all sin.

 

[estesbob]

Uhm…yeah…I don’t get how abusing a child (which certainly warrants one or a few people to come forward about) can compare to taking ABCs, or following another religion other than Catholicism

If one is using chemical methods of birth control it is probable there abusing children on a regular basis-that is if you consider killing a child to be abusing them.

 

[Rence]

Originally Posted by Rence
Uhm…yeah…I don’t get how abusing a child (which certainly warrants one or a few people to come forward about) can compare to taking ABCs, or following another religion other than Catholicism

Well, no offense, I don’t mean to be rude, but when one compares child abuse to a contraception as both being equally offensive sins, there really is no wonder why those taking contraceptives aren’t taking that person seriously, and just continue to contracept. I kind of don’t understand what reaction is hoped for with such a strategy.

 

[estesbob]

Well, no offense, I don’t mean to be rude, but when one compares child abuse to a contraception as both being equally offensive sins, there really is no wonder why those taking contraceptives aren’t taking that person seriously, and just continue to contracept. I kind of don’t understand what reaction is hoped for with such a strategy.

So tellinge truth is redcued to a “strategy”

 

[crazzeto]

Well, no offense, I don’t mean to be rude, but when one compares child abuse to a contraception as both being equally offensive sins, there really is no wonder why those taking contraceptives aren’t taking that person seriously, and just continue to contracept. I kind of don’t understand what reaction is hoped for with such a strategy.

Pardon, but at what point did she make a comparison between the gravity of the two. She said they are all sin, and that is an objective truth. They are all sin, which means none of it is good. Which really calls into question why you brought up child abuse in the first place, we know this to be sin and none of us support it. So what’s the point?

 

[KostyaJMJ]

I guess if one actually believed that the Church ever approved of slavery this would be correct but the truth is the church never did.

I know it didn’t. The point I am making is that there was development. God was silent about slavery for a lot longer than 1,960 years too.

(a) God was always against slavery but allowed his people to teach error and practice slavery for thousands of years

(b) God was ok with slavery for thousands of years and changed his mind;

(c) God has always considered slavery ok and still does.

 

[wanner47]

Well, no offense, I don’t mean to be rude, but when one compares child abuse to a contraception as both being equally offensive sins,

Which I did not do.

there really is no wonder why those taking contraceptives aren’t taking that person seriously, and just continue to contracept. I kind of don’t understand what reaction is hoped for with such a strategy.

You need to read closely, Rence. I said, OBJECTIVELY, they are all sins. The negative consequences of each differs, as does the culpability of the person committing them depending on their level of invincible ignorance. Using bcp (and perhaps aborting any children that are conceived) may not be a mortal sin if the person using bcp doesn’t realize that it is a sin.

 

[wanner47]

I know it didn’t. The point I am making is that there was development. God was silent about slavery for a lot longer than 1,960 years too.

(a) God was always against slavery but allowed his people to teach error and practice slavery for thousands of years

(b) God was ok with slavery for thousands of years and changed his mind;

(c) God has always considered slavery ok and still does.

Or (d) God has never condoned slavery, and the teaching authority of His Church has always taught and reflected that truth even if some of the members of that Church did not.

 

[Rence]

Pardon, but at what point did she make a comparison between the gravity of the two. She said they are all sin, and that is an objective truth. They are all sin, which means none of it is good. Which really calls into question why you brought up child abuse in the first place, we know this to be sin and none of us support it. So what’s the point?

I didn’t bring it up in the first place LOL. I responded at least third in line when someone else did. No hidden motve. I just responded to someone else.

Furthermore, if someone is regularly contracepting and doesn’t believe they are sinning at all by doing so, it’s highly unlikely you’ll get a educational word in edgewise if you start out by saying that they’re sinning…just like child molesters. Just saying…

 

[1holycatholic]

I didn’t bring it up in the first place LOL. I responded at least third in line when someone else did. No hidden motve. I just responded to someone else.

Furthermore, if someone is regularly contracepting and doesn’t believe they are sinning at all by doing so, it’s highly unlikely you’ll get a educational word in edgewise if you start out by saying that they’re sinning…just like child molesters. Just saying…

Objectively they are both grave sins.

Believing that something isn’t a sin doesn’t change the fact that it is a sin.

Neither does this:

 

[Rence]

And history has shown us that people can justify all sorts of immoral actions – including abortion, for example – in the name of being “correct for their family.” That’s why we need a source of objective truth to tell us, “No, this action is wrong, even if it makes things easier and more convenient for your family.”

People extrapolate what is in their environment in order to make the best decisions for themselves and their families. For Catholics, the Catholic Church is the teaching source in our lives.

For those who are not Catholic, they have other sources for teachings, including their own religions and I mention other religions becaues I don’t think you can talk about history without mentioning the many different religions out there to teach their followers.

Most Catholic women use birth control banned by the Church for many reasons, among them because they fear the unreliability of NFP and can’t afford (in ways that doesn’t stop with money) to have more children. They feel the Church has not advanced with the times. They look at the world around them and fear that their lives will fall apart. They certainly don’t put up with the negative effects of ABCs for the fun of it. And they don’t believe the Church will help them when they do get pregnant.

 

[Rence]

Objectively they are both grave sins.

Believing that something isn’t a sin doesn’t change the fact that it is a sin.

But it DOES change what you do about it. Surely most Catholic women use birth control banned by the Church because they either don’t believe it’s a sin at all, or believe it’s not as grave a sin as others do.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Or (d) God has never condoned slavery, and the teaching authority of His Church has always taught and reflected that truth even if some of the members of that Church did not.

Hindsight is 20/20. We know now the Church never approved slavery but to someone living at the time it would seem that it had.

(d) God has always approved contraception, and the teaching authority of his Church has taught this even if some of her members did not.

You see, The Church only seemingly condemned contraception just as it only seemingly condoned slavery.

 

[wanner47]

People extrapolate what is in their environment in order to make the best decisions for themselves and their families. For Catholics, the Catholic Church is the teaching source in our lives.

So if a woman decides that an abortion is the best decision for her family, you consider that a moral and correct choice?

For those who are not Catholic, they have other sources for teachings, including their own religions and I mention other religions becaues I don’t think you can talk about history without mentioning the many different religions out there to teach their followers.

Irrelevant, as truth is truth even if other religions don’t recognize it.

Most Catholic women use birth control banned by the Church for many reasons, among them because they fear the unreliability of NFP and can’t afford (in ways that doesn’t stop with money) to have more children.

How sad that they feel they must sin in order to space their pregnancies.

They feel the Church has not advanced with the times.

And thank God for that… otherwise you’d find us saying “abortion is a blessing” just like the Episcopalians.

They look at the world around them and fear that their lives will fall apart…] And they don’t believe the Church will help them when they do get pregnant.

They are wrong on both counts.