Most common abuse at mass today.

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None of the things listed are abuses.

Here are some of the abuses that have occurred around here:

The laity giving the sermons.

Instead of a sermon, having a discussion period.

The priest concelebrating mass with a woman Anglican priest.

A loaf of regular bread being used for communion.

Neither the priest or Eucharistic ministers distributing communion. Rather the congregation giving communion to each other.

The words of the readings and of the mass being changed to conform to the feminist agenda.

Use of altar girls before it was legal.

No crucifix and no holy water in the church.

Invalid baptisms because the improper formula was used. Again, I assume to promote the feminist agenda.

Liturgical dancing.

Not around here but in Taylor Falls, Minnesota. The tabernacle being placed in a “place of honor”. The " place of honor being the back of the coat closet.

Around here they just show they despise Jesus by placing the tabernacle in some grungie little room that no one ever visits.

Refusing to kneel from the end of the Sanctus to the beginning of the Pater Noster. And removing the kneelers from the church.

Applause in church.

And the attack of liturgy on the congregation and on the Catholic faith only promises to get more vile and vicious.

I challenge those who keep saying that is a mortal sin on miss Mass on Sunday to put an end to the abuse. All they do is increase the incredible hopelessness of American Catholicism.
 
Chris Jacobsen:
Use of altar girls before it was legal.

No crucifix and no holy water in the church.

I challenge those who keep saying that is a mortal sin on miss Mass on Sunday to put an end to the abuse. All they do is increase the incredible hopelessness of American Catholicism.
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I haven’t seen all you have but then again I specifically avoid going to certain parishes I know will cause me spiritual harm.

As for abuses we do have that I will never accept (thought forced to ‘deal’ with since no better option exists)

(1) Girl-altar-boys.
This evil practice is anethma to me. If you can call something a liturgical heresy…this is it. Destroying the recruiting ground to the priesthood is the intent. The ‘indult’ that was given to pretend America is not in schism has so many restrictions it can never validly be used anyway. Please don’t try and argue with me on this…your wrong.

(2) EMHC’s
Do I really need to go into about this

(3) Communion in the Hand
This is one of the first abuses ‘legitimized’ by an indult. Pope Paul VI warned that if any loss of faith presents itself the practice is to be halted. America is alway ignoring the Pope.
 
Most common abuse on this thread is even worse spelling than my polls. Now THAT’s abuse! :bigyikes:

Abuse at Mass that I don’t like is:

1)punky looking altar boys who look at their watch during Mass

2)People who draw attention to themselves with talking, attire, making a huge show of kneeling, people who give you an angry scowl when it’s the sign of peace or totally ignore you, people who sing really loud and out of key.

3)Unworthy people like me who can’t keep my mind on God during Mass. :o
 
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robertaf:
I agree completely.

I hear about all kinds of liturgical abuses, or I should say I read about them here in these threads, but I do not see them.

Other than a few folks attempting to kneel to receive Communion and then needing help getting up and distracting people all around them, nothing much catches my attention. I sit in the front few pews and try to pray for each person receiving Our Lord. I actually saw one of these “kneelers”, hoping not to fall over, grab at Fathers arm. Of course, she missed, otherwise he would have surely dropped the paten, spilling Jesus all over the floor.

As far as the Priest is concerned, I do get annoyed at a Priest who cannot prepare a Homily and READS a canned one.
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Just a little sanctimonious, aren’t we?? :rolleyes: The laity in the pews not paying attention, etc., are not liturgical abuses. In the main (apart from the inevitable childish hand-holding at the Our Father) liturgical abuses are committed in the Sanctuary - where our attention is supposed to be directed, anyway. It is impossible to miss liturgical abuses if you are truly participating in the Mass!

How can you miss the priest ad-libbing the prayers? Even if you don’t have a Missal, priests are not so talented as to compose a truly liturgical sounding prayer while winging it! The priest who most often does this in my parish could never fool anyone!

Changing of the written words that make our priests (and some laity) “uncomfortable” is so glaring - they usually give a slight pause before changing the word.

Giving the Host to the EMHCs before he receives cannot be missed.

There is no end to the abuses, and they are all so much “in your face” that you would have to be both blind and deaf to miss them.

We, the laity, are entitled to a true and faithful liturgy. But, it is not just us being abused, it is, first and foremost, God being abused by these blatant crimes.

We should be angry about liturgical abuses. And we should not ignore them - that will not cure them.

I don’t know about you, but I want to participate in a holy and reverent Mass, giving glory and thanksgiving to God. I am deeply offended by priests and laity who think (or seem to think) that any old thing is good enough for God.
 
I think as Good Catholics maybe we should come up with our own lay church doctrine. Thats we should address the Cardinals and the Pope. If Such Liturgical Abuse is to continue in the spirit of Vatican II, it is the work of Satan if the Nature of abuse is to rebell against the church, the cardinal or the Pope to and Cause trouble in the church. Such problems should be addressed as such and we should all pray to Saint Michael for his intercession to drive such practices out of the church.

Than we should list all the Abuses.

Cell Phones ringing in Church. People talking. (We could get cell phone Jammers.)
Priest not adminsitering communion correctly to ECM.
Priest saying mass out of order.
Intention of Pastor to cause trouble with Cardinal.
Loss of Pioty at Mass.
 
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Agomemnon:
I haven’t seen all you have but then again I specifically avoid going to certain parishes I know will cause me spiritual harm.

As for abuses we do have that I will never accept (thought forced to ‘deal’ with since no better option exists)

(1) Girl-altar-boys.
This evil practice is anethma to me. If you can call something a liturgical heresy…this is it. Destroying the recruiting ground to the priesthood is the intent. The ‘indult’ that was given to pretend America is not in schism has so many restrictions it can never validly be used anyway. Please don’t try and argue with me on this…your wrong.

(2) EMHC’s
Do I really need to go into about this

(3) Communion in the Hand
This is one of the first abuses ‘legitimized’ by an indult. Pope Paul VI warned that if any loss of faith presents itself the practice is to be halted. America is alway ignoring the Pope.
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All I can say is…:bigyikes:!! Apparently you are at the head of the line in terms of Americans “always ignoring the Pope.” Like it or not most of the complaints you list were legitimized by Vatican II and are embraced by our current, indisputably holy and quite conservative Pope. But I guess you can take it upon yourself to substitute your judgement, reason and opinion for his and still call yourself a good Catholic, right? There are probably more than a few pro-choice, gay marriage advocates who would gladly defend your right to do so!
 
Chris Jacobsen:
None of the things listed are abuses.

Here are some of the abuses that have occurred around here:

A loaf of regular bread being used for communion.
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Who’da thunk it…Jesus himself engaged in liturgical abuse. Imagine the GALL of using REAL BREAD, in a ritual that recreates and memorializes the events of the Last Supper, in the same manner our Lord did. What IS this world coming to?!?
 
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WhiteDove:
Most common abuse on this thread is even worse spelling than my polls. Now THAT’s abuse! :bigyikes:

Abuse at Mass that I don’t like is:

1)punky looking altar boys who look at their watch during Mass

2)People who draw attention to themselves with talking, attire,
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In my parish, people would draw attention to you if you were wearing, nice, appropriate clothes to church, so as long as it is over-dressing and not under-dressing, this is not an abuse.
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WhiteDove:
making a huge show of kneeling,
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Perhaps they have knee problems.
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WhiteDove:
people who give you an angry scowl when it’s the sign of peace or totally ignore you, people who sing really loud and out of key.
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At least they are participating. As long as they aren’t doing it to mock the music, I have no problem with that. I’m a HORRIBLE singer but I still participate. I sure hope that’s not an abuse, just because I can’t sing.
 
Dear Work in Progress,
Well, I guess I’ll be writing a letter to your Bishop 'bout your singing right away! 😉 Now, are you the one that sits in the pew behind me at the Saturday vigil Mass??? 😃
 
Well People make mistakes.

Maybe the answer is for me to be more patient and in the meantime, avoid parishs where liturgical abuse exists.
 
Island Oak:
Who’da thunk it…Jesus himself engaged in liturgical abuse. Imagine the GALL of using REAL BREAD, in a ritual that recreates and memorializes the events of the Last Supper, in the same manner our Lord did. What IS this world coming to?!?
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The Last Supper was the Passover meal. The only bread permitted at the Passover meal is unleavened bread. Unleavened bread is bread made without leavening. Leavening is another word for yeast. Regular bread is made with yeast.

Jesus obeyed the law and used unleavened bread. He did not use regular bread.
 
I was unable to vote. Most of the choices were examples of rudeness and distraction. We do not really have any clear liturgical abuses right not at my parish. We had glass chalises, but they were replaced last month.
 
Chris Jacobsen:
The Last Supper was the Passover meal. The only bread permitted at the Passover meal is unleavened bread. Unleavened bread is bread made without leavening. Leavening is another word for yeast. Regular bread is made with yeast.

Jesus obeyed the law and used unleavened bread. He did not use regular bread.
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Wasn’t Jesus also credited with saying the ways of the old law had passed away and that he was bringing a new commandment?!? You sound like a modern day Pharisee. (Remember Jesus was also known for scandalizing the legalists by performing miracles on the Sabbath) Can you truly allow something this technical to rile you up…and distract you from the purpose for which the bread is consecrated and offered?
 
How do we know if the bread was leavend or not. Not all Jews keep Passover tradition.
 
Even non-religious Jews would NOT eat leavened bread at a Seder. Of course it was unleavened bread. There are very specific foods that are eaten, and the women pride themselves on the meal.

Calling someone a modern pharisee is uncharitable, IMO. I think an apology is owed.
 
The type of bread is a critical area. Without proper bread, you do not have valid matter. Without valid matter, you do not have the Most Holy Sacrament and associated grace. Surely, though, this is not a common problem, is it?
 
Island Oak:
All I can say is…:bigyikes:!! Apparently you are at the head of the line in terms of Americans “always ignoring the Pope.” Like it or not most of the complaints you list were legitimized by Vatican II and are embraced by our current, indisputably holy and quite conservative Pope. But I guess you can take it upon yourself to substitute your judgement, reason and opinion for his and still call yourself a good Catholic, right? There are probably more than a few pro-choice, gay marriage advocates who would gladly defend your right to do so!
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What arrogance and ignorace combined into one response.
Perhaps if you would READ the Council documents…not one of the abuses I mentioned were legitimized by Vatican II. Not ONE!

Communion in the Hand was continually condemned by Pope Paul VI and his capitulation to the abuse by granting an indult (but still claiming we are to recieve as the universal norm communion on the tongue) set the stage. Pope Paul VI warned that a loss of faith and reverence could result in communion in the hand. JPII has continually stated that the Universal norm for reception of communion is on the tongue.

Inaestimable Donum, Altae Sunt and ALL POPES and PATRIARCHS that have ever stated anything on girls/women serving has always been condemned as an evil practice and contrary to the Liturgy. JPII falls down and breaks a hip and ‘magically’ some prelates pushes an abuse causing document. By the way…take a look at the supposed indult and its restrictions…not one could be permitted in the USA.NOT ONE.
Don’t complain about the shortage of priests when you sanction the destruction of the recruiting and training ground.

And for EMHC’s…Inaestimable Donum and the RS both confirm that its regularized use is an abuse.

Not one was legitimized by Vatican II and not one can be permitted in accord with all the Missals made since Trent. (All except the latest novelty liturgical nightmare foisted upon us)

those heretics your mentioned: pro-aborts, pro-homosexuals and contracepting (intrinsically evil) congregants rely on the liturgical confusion and destruction to spread their doctrinal confusion and destruction of the Church.

Vatican II DID give me the right and obligation to voice my concerns on such things as the liturgy and to call out against abuse and errors. I’m following Vatican II in that regard.
 
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Agomemnon:
What arrogance and ignorace combined into one response.
Perhaps if you would READ the Council documents…not one of the abuses I mentioned were legitimized by Vatican II. Not ONE!
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Without getting into the emotions involved, Islane Oak was correct in that not one of the three things mentioned are abusive in and of themselves, in that they violate the GIRM. However, excessive use of EMHC might qualify in some circumstances.
 
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