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Maximilian75
Guest
As @Zaccheus said, Jesus was old enough to be responsible.
Mother Mary. Why would take your eyes off Jesus and focus on her?
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PetraG
Guest
Look up Lumen Gentium, the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, which is one of the if the primary document promulgated as a result of the Second Vatican Council.
If you really want to know what the Church believes about Mary, then carefully read and reflect on Chapter 8. I don’t think you can find a more carefully-worded and succinct teaching of the Church’s understanding of Mary and the place God in His Wisdom intended her to have in the life of humankind and its salvation than Chapter 8 of Lumen Gentium.
Don’t ask for a paraphrase. Do yourself a huge favor and go read it. Then, if there are passages you do not understand, ask about those. I think that is the most efficient way for you to approach this.
If you really want to know what the Church believes about Mary, then carefully read and reflect on Chapter 8. I don’t think you can find a more carefully-worded and succinct teaching of the Church’s understanding of Mary and the place God in His Wisdom intended her to have in the life of humankind and its salvation than Chapter 8 of Lumen Gentium.
Don’t ask for a paraphrase. Do yourself a huge favor and go read it. Then, if there are passages you do not understand, ask about those. I think that is the most efficient way for you to approach this.
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Gorgias
Guest
“Fully human and fully God.”
Being human does not prove that one has sinned. Jesus (and countless babies who die as infants) are the counter-examples to that assertion.
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PetraG
Guest
I have never heard the “strong school of thought” that John the Baptist never sinned. He was a prophet from the womb (since he leaped in the womb at the sound of Mary’s greeting coming to his mother), but that does not imply he never sinned. The evidence that he had examined himself and found himself short is this:
Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?” (Matt. 3:13-14)
Having said that, St. John did contrast his baptism with the baptism that Jesus would usher in, saying of it,
“Even now the ax lies at the root of the trees. Therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. I am baptizing you with water, for repentance, but the one who is coming after me is mightier than I. I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in his hand. He will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.” (Matt. 3:10-12) Even so, if John were full of grace and without sin as Mary was, it seems odd that he would not see he was the beneficiary in anticipation of the grace to be made available by the Sacrifice of the Cross. His thought that he needed a baptism in the Holy Spirit would be difficult to explain, as one cannot be sinless if one is not filled with the Holy Spirit.
Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?” (Matt. 3:13-14)
Having said that, St. John did contrast his baptism with the baptism that Jesus would usher in, saying of it,
“Even now the ax lies at the root of the trees. Therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. I am baptizing you with water, for repentance, but the one who is coming after me is mightier than I. I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in his hand. He will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.” (Matt. 3:10-12) Even so, if John were full of grace and without sin as Mary was, it seems odd that he would not see he was the beneficiary in anticipation of the grace to be made available by the Sacrifice of the Cross. His thought that he needed a baptism in the Holy Spirit would be difficult to explain, as one cannot be sinless if one is not filled with the Holy Spirit.
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Francis
Guest
Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Is not this the reason you are wrong, that you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God? ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is God not of the dead, but of the living; you are quite wrong.”
Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean will enter Heaven, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life. But when Jesus is born she had to be without Original Sin a pure vessel to contain Jesus in the womb… Lord Jesus (GOD) had to be born in a women who is sinless. why will the holy of hollies be born in sin, God is Holy, So he has to born into a holy place the womb of Mary.will you eat your food in a dirty and filthy vessel or drink in a dirty cup,the same way here
Isaiah 66; 7 before she was in labor she gave birth; Before her pain came upon her she delivered a son.8 who has heard of such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be delivered in one moment? Yet as soon as Zion was in labor she delivered her children.9 shall I open the womb and not deliver? Says the Lord; shall I, the one who delivers, shut the womb? Says your God.
Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean will enter Heaven, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life. But when Jesus is born she had to be without Original Sin a pure vessel to contain Jesus in the womb… Lord Jesus (GOD) had to be born in a women who is sinless. why will the holy of hollies be born in sin, God is Holy, So he has to born into a holy place the womb of Mary.will you eat your food in a dirty and filthy vessel or drink in a dirty cup,the same way here
Isaiah 66; 7 before she was in labor she gave birth; Before her pain came upon her she delivered a son.8 who has heard of such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be delivered in one moment? Yet as soon as Zion was in labor she delivered her children.9 shall I open the womb and not deliver? Says the Lord; shall I, the one who delivers, shut the womb? Says your God.
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PetraG
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Our Lord was obviously a master of Holy Scriptures at the time, as his understanding amazed the rabbis.
“After three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions, and all who heard him were astounded at his understanding and his answers.” Luke 2:46-47
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Francis
Guest
Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Is not this the reason you are wrong, that you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God? ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is God not of the dead, but of the living; you are quite wrong.”
The purification sacrifice mentioned in Lk. 2: 24 is no personal sin issue but a rite of purification for mothers after childbirth because the woman is understood to be ritually unclean after childbirth. Mary underwent such exercise to humbly identify with her people, just as christ received baptism to identify with his people even though he was sinless. If you impute sin to Mary because she underwent the purification exercise, you could as well impute sin to Jesus in his acceptance of Baptism. That she called God her savior does not necessarily imply sin in her. There is preventive salvation (salvation to prevent from falling into sin, which is nobler) and reparative salvation (salvation after sin is committed). We are saved in a reparative way, but Mary like the angels, is saved in a preventive manner; for, she was preserved from sin so that she would be a mother worthy of conceiving and giving birth to the Holy of Holies. Thus, Christ remains her savior
Luke 8:21 But he said to them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.
**What Jesus looked at His Mother and said to the people who do the will of God like my Mother brother and sister.
John 9:31 says we know that God does not listen to sinners, but he does listen to one who worships him and obeys his will. Which Mother did, co-operated by doing His Will in Luke 1:38. Lk 1:28, 30 – angel: She is “full of grace, found favor with God Lk 1:42 – Elizabeth: “most blessed among women” Lk 1:48 – Mary: “all generations will call me blessed” Mother of God Lk 1:43 – Elizabeth calls her “mother of my Lord” = God.
The purification sacrifice mentioned in Lk. 2: 24 is no personal sin issue but a rite of purification for mothers after childbirth because the woman is understood to be ritually unclean after childbirth. Mary underwent such exercise to humbly identify with her people, just as christ received baptism to identify with his people even though he was sinless. If you impute sin to Mary because she underwent the purification exercise, you could as well impute sin to Jesus in his acceptance of Baptism. That she called God her savior does not necessarily imply sin in her. There is preventive salvation (salvation to prevent from falling into sin, which is nobler) and reparative salvation (salvation after sin is committed). We are saved in a reparative way, but Mary like the angels, is saved in a preventive manner; for, she was preserved from sin so that she would be a mother worthy of conceiving and giving birth to the Holy of Holies. Thus, Christ remains her savior
Luke 8:21 But he said to them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.
**What Jesus looked at His Mother and said to the people who do the will of God like my Mother brother and sister.
John 9:31 says we know that God does not listen to sinners, but he does listen to one who worships him and obeys his will. Which Mother did, co-operated by doing His Will in Luke 1:38. Lk 1:28, 30 – angel: She is “full of grace, found favor with God Lk 1:42 – Elizabeth: “most blessed among women” Lk 1:48 – Mary: “all generations will call me blessed” Mother of God Lk 1:43 – Elizabeth calls her “mother of my Lord” = God.
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Francis
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.Yes all have sinner that"s why God created a new thing on the earth that is Holy Mary Conceived with out sin,in order to save sinners like you and me,have you got it
Jeremiah 31:22 How long will you waver, O faithless daughter (Eve)? For the Lord has created a new thing on the earth: a woman (Mother Mary) encompasses a man (Jesus).
Jeremiah 31:22 How long will you waver, O faithless daughter (Eve)? For the Lord has created a new thing on the earth: a woman (Mother Mary) encompasses a man (Jesus).
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Francis
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Yes all have sinner that"s why God created a new thing on the earth that is Holy Mary Conceived with out sin,in order to save sinners like you and me,have you got it
Jeremiah 31:22 How long will you waver, O faithless daughter (Eve)? For the Lord has created a new thing on the earth: a woman (Mother Mary) encompasses a man (Jesus).
Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Jeremiah 31:22 How long will you waver, O faithless daughter (Eve)? For the Lord has created a new thing on the earth: a woman (Mother Mary) encompasses a man (Jesus).
Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
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Francis
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She is full of Grace ,perfect in all things ,John the Baptist was sanctified by the Holy Sprite in the womb before that he had the original sin ,here again Mother Mary intercedes,the Holy Spirit is testifying through St Elizabeth, Mother Mary she is the Mother of God
Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
45 And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord.
Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
45 And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord.
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Francis
Guest
Because she is the Mother of God
Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary) shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
Galatians 4:26 But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free and she is our mother ( MARY). (MOTHER MARY IS SINLESS and Mary retain "perpetual virginity), 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, you childless one, you who bear no children, burst into song and shout, you who endure no birth pangs; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than the children of the one who is married.”
Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary) shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
Galatians 4:26 But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free and she is our mother ( MARY). (MOTHER MARY IS SINLESS and Mary retain "perpetual virginity), 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, you childless one, you who bear no children, burst into song and shout, you who endure no birth pangs; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than the children of the one who is married.”
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JoshuaIsLord
Guest
Still trying to get where get the idea that Mary is not Jesus’ True Mother. You are taking that verse completely and totally out of context.
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Francis
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Song of Solomon 5:2[ Another Dream ] I slept, but my heart was awake. Listen! my beloved is knocking. “Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my perfect one(Mother Mary); for my head is wet with dew, my locks with the drops of the night.”
Song of Solomon 6:9
My dove, my perfect one(Mother Mary), is the only one, the darling of her mother, flawless to her that bore her. The maidens saw her and called her happy; the queens and concubines also, and they praised her.
Song of Solomon 6:9
My dove, my perfect one(Mother Mary), is the only one, the darling of her mother, flawless to her that bore her. The maidens saw her and called her happy; the queens and concubines also, and they praised her.
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Francis
Guest
Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean will enter Heaven, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life. But when Jesus is born she had to be without Original Sin a pure vessel to contain Jesus in the womb… Lord Jesus (GOD) had to be born in a women who is sinless. why will the holy of hollies be born in sin, God is Holy, So he has to born into a holy place the womb of Mary.will you eat you food in a dirty and filthy vessel or drink in a dirty cup same way
Isaiah 66; 7 before she was in labor she gave birth; Before her pain came upon her she delivered a son.8 who has heard of such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be delivered in one moment? Yet as soon as Zion was in labor she delivered her children.9 shall I open the womb and not deliver? Says the Lord; shall I, the one who delivers, shut the womb? Says your God.
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary) shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
Galatians 4:26 But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free and she is our mother ( MARY). (MOTHER MARY IS SINLESS and Mary retain "perpetual virginity), 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, you childless one, you who bear no children, burst into song and shout, you who endure no birth pangs; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than the children of the one who is married.”
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Isaiah 66; 7 before she was in labor she gave birth; Before her pain came upon her she delivered a son.8 who has heard of such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be delivered in one moment? Yet as soon as Zion was in labor she delivered her children.9 shall I open the womb and not deliver? Says the Lord; shall I, the one who delivers, shut the womb? Says your God.
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary) shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
Galatians 4:26 But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free and she is our mother ( MARY). (MOTHER MARY IS SINLESS and Mary retain "perpetual virginity), 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, you childless one, you who bear no children, burst into song and shout, you who endure no birth pangs; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than the children of the one who is married.”
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Fidveritas
Guest
Compare Luke 1:39-45 and Samuel 6:1-15. Observe how Joshua and Moses interface with God throughout Exodus, especially Exodus 33-34 and then what comes after.
Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. To make ignoring her a practice in your prayer life is folly.
Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. To make ignoring her a practice in your prayer life is folly.
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JoshuaIsLord
Guest
How is this child even remotely capable of sinning?
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JoshuaIsLord
Guest
That is a glittering generality.
If not, then in the strictest sense it also applies to Jesus.
Let me toss a verse or two at you…lets back up 13 verses.
Rom. 3:10-14 None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one. Their throat is an open grave. They use their tongues to deceive. The venom of.asps is under their lips. Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.
Now in the most strictest sense,
You have never sought God,
You have turned aside.
You have done nothing good in your entire life.
Your throat is an open grave.
You use your tongue to deceive.
The venon of Asps is under your lips.
Your mouth is full of curses and bitterness.
Is this absolutely true?
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Francis
Guest
Luke 8:21 Who answering, said to them: My mother and my brethren are they who hear the word of God, and do it.what Jesus meant was Jesus looked at Mother Mary lovingly and said to the people present there.those who do the will of my father is like my Mother ,brother sister, John 9:31 says we know that God does not listen to sinners, but he does listen to one who worships him and obeys his will.
Which Mother did, co-operated by doing His Will in Luke 1:38. Lk 1:28, 30 – angel: “full of grace, found favor with God Lk 1:42 – Elizabeth: “most blessed among women” Lk 1:48 – Mary: “all generations will call me blessed” Mother of God Lk 1:43 – Elizabeth calls her “mother of my Lord” = God.
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary)shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary) shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
Galatians 4:26 But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free and she is our mother ( MARY). (MOTHER MARY IS SINLESS and Mary retain "perpetual virginity), 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, you childless one, you who bear no children, burst into song and shout, you who endure no birth pangs; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than the children of the one who is married.”
All have sinned that"s why God created a new thing on earth to save sinners like you and me
Jeremiah 31:22 How long will you waver, O faithless daughter (Eve)? For the Lord has created a new thing on the earth: a woman (Mother Mary) encompasses a man (Jesus).
Which Mother did, co-operated by doing His Will in Luke 1:38. Lk 1:28, 30 – angel: “full of grace, found favor with God Lk 1:42 – Elizabeth: “most blessed among women” Lk 1:48 – Mary: “all generations will call me blessed” Mother of God Lk 1:43 – Elizabeth calls her “mother of my Lord” = God.
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary)shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary) shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
Galatians 4:26 But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free and she is our mother ( MARY). (MOTHER MARY IS SINLESS and Mary retain "perpetual virginity), 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, you childless one, you who bear no children, burst into song and shout, you who endure no birth pangs; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than the children of the one who is married.”
All have sinned that"s why God created a new thing on earth to save sinners like you and me
Jeremiah 31:22 How long will you waver, O faithless daughter (Eve)? For the Lord has created a new thing on the earth: a woman (Mother Mary) encompasses a man (Jesus).
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Francis
Guest
Yes ,Good point also the Heavenly Father chose Mother Mary so save mankind through Jesus ,Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary) shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
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Francis
Guest
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary) shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
John 17:17 17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
John 17:17 17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
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