MOVIE: Prince Caspian

[thomasf]

I am excited for this movie. Although I am more looking forward to Dawn Treader. That is my favorite Narnia book.

I am glad to see they are following the original publishing order and not the renumbered order. There’s more intrigue in reading them in the original order.

 

[MariaGoretti]

I am excited for this movie. Although I am more looking forward to Dawn Treader. That is my favorite Narnia book.

I am glad to see they are following the original publishing order and not the renumbered order. There’s more intrigue in reading them in the original order.

Yeah my mom got me the book with all the Narnia books combined, and they’re in the renumbered order. So what I’m doing is just reading them in order of when published.

 

[peregrinator_it]

Yeah my mom got me the book with all the Narnia books combined, and they’re in the renumbered order. So what I’m doing is just reading them in order of when published.

Being a somewhat methodical child (I started reading the Narnia books at 7 or 8) I was annoyed to find, when I got to The Magician’s Nephew that it should (in my 8-yr old opinion) have been before The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe.

So, when I had finished reading the whole series, I promptly went back and read them in the “right” order. (I remember having trouble trying to figure out where The Horse and His Boy fit chronologically…)

 

[Melissa]

Somewhere, I saw a link to the trailer posted, and from what I saw–yes, definitely looking forward to this movie.

 

[Della]

Being a somewhat methodical child (I started reading the Narnia books at 7 or 8) I was annoyed to find, when I got to The Magician’s Nephew that it should (in my 8-yr old opinion) have been before The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe.

So, when I had finished reading the whole series, I promptly went back and read them in the “right” order. (I remember having trouble trying to figure out where The Horse and His Boy fit chronologically…)

If I had read them as a little girl I’d probably have felt the same way. As a child I wanted everything explainable and in it’s proper place, too.

But, I read them as an adult and was delighted to be surprised by yet another Narnia tale I hadn’t expected, instead of dutifully plodding my way through them chronologically–or attempting to.

Really, as a writer, Lewis must have known that was better, even though he approved the rearranging of the stories. Authors aren’t always the best judge of these things–I feel I can speak with some authority since I write fiction, too.

I’ve always place THAHB after TLWW only because it actually takes place during the years the 4 Pevensies’ reigned. At least, it works for me.

 

[LRThunder]

The BBC also produced television movie versions of the Chronicles of Narnia. They’ve only made LWW, Prince Caspian, the Voyage of the Dawn Treader and the Silver Chair, I think.

 

[Della]

The BBC also produced television movie versions of the Chronicles of Narnia. They’ve only made LWW, Prince Caspian, the Voyage of the Dawn Treader and the Silver Chair, I think.

Yes, they’re out on DVD, as a set. The production values aren’t Industrial Light and Magic, but the scripts are true not only “in spirit” but much closer to Lewis’ actual words than the Walden Media productions. They’re worth it for that alone.

 

[Other_Eric]

There exists no reason to become excited about this movie nor any other that takes as its premise a model of Manichean blasphemy.

 

[Della]

There exists no reason to become excited about this movie nor any other that takes as its premise a model of Manichean blasphemy.

Curious. I’ve never detected any Zoroastrian Dualism, Babylonian folklore, or overt Buddhist ethics in Lewis’ writings.

I think you’re taking the whole think too seriously.

Lewis described his Narnia stories as “supposals,” that were not to be taken literally, but as a device for getting children to see Christianity beyond stained glass windows and hymn singing and other religious symbols and see Christ’s life, death, and redemption of the world with fresh eyes. To see, as he put it “past watchful dragons” of the familiar, thus all too readily dismissing the Christianity of their childhood when they grow up, as had happened to him.

Anyhoo, I am very much looking forward to all the stories on film. If they get children reading the likes of Lewis and Tolkien more than Rowlings, I for one will rejoice.

 

[Other_Eric]

Curious. I’ve never detected any Zoroastrian Dualism, Babylonian folklore, or overt Buddhist ethics in Lewis’ writings.

I think you’re taking the whole think too seriously.

Lewis described his Narnia stories as “supposals,” that were not to be taken literally, but as a device for getting children to see Christianity beyond stained glass windows and hymn singing and other religious symbols and see Christ’s life, death, and redemption of the world with fresh eyes. To see, as he put it “past watchful dragons” of the familiar, thus all too readily dismissing the Christianity of their childhood when they grow up, as had happened to him.

Anyhoo, I am very much looking forward to all the stories on film. If they get children reading the likes of Lewis and Tolkien more than Rowlings, I for one will rejoice.

In Lewis’ attempt to divorce Christianity from its basis in reality, he directly attacks and makes a mockery of the Incarnation, introducing his Christ figure as a beast. Indeed, the body of Christ that was nailed to the cross seems, in light of the Narnia stories, to be nothing more than an elaborate disguise which Christ can cast off easily when He goes to Narnia in favor of His lion suit. Carried to its logical end, the Passion of Christ becomes a pantomime and a deception.

In this sense, Lewis opens the door to the deplorable heresy of Maicheanism and casts aside any reverence that is due to the human body as a creation of God. How horrific it would be to confuse one’s children with this sort of tripe, especially in today’s culture which defines the body as nothing more than a means to one’s own hedonistic pleasure.

 

[Della]

In Lewis’ attempt to divorce Christianity from its basis in reality, he directly attacks and makes a mockery of the Incarnation, introducing his Christ figure as a beast. Indeed, the body of Christ that was nailed to the cross seems, in light of the Narnia stories, to be nothing more than an elaborate disguise which Christ can cast off easily when He goes to Narnia in favor of His lion suit. Carried to its logical end, the Passion of Christ becomes a pantomime and a deception.

In this sense, Lewis opens the door to the deplorable heresy of Maicheanism and casts aside any reverence that is due to the human body as a creation of God. How horrific it would be to confuse one’s children with this sort of tripe, especially in today’s culture which defines the body as nothing more than a means to one’s own hedonistic pleasure.

As I said, you’re taking the whole thing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously.

Fantasy is a literary form, like poetry. It compares reality to things different from our own in order to help us understand truths.

And I seriously doubt any normal child is silly enough to think that Aslan is really Christ. I read Peter Pan as a child and knew perfectly well he wasn’t a real person. What I loved about the character was what he represented.

Think of fantasy as iconography. That might help you see what it is Lewis was trying to achieve. After all, don’t we see the “Lion of Judah” as a symbol for Christ? Aren’t the Gospels themselves represented by a Lion, an Eagle, an Ox, and a Man? Don’t be so literalistic, man.

 

[Other_Eric]

As I said, you’re taking the whole thing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously.

Fantasy is a literary form, like poetry. It compares reality to things different from our own in order to help us understand truths.

And I seriously doubt any normal child is silly enough to think that Aslan is really Christ. I read Peter Pan as a child and knew perfectly well he wasn’t a real person. What I loved about the character was what he represented.

Think of fantasy as iconography. That might help you see what it is Lewis was trying to achieve. After all, don’t we see the “Lion of Judah” as a symbol for Christ? Aren’t the Gospels themselves represented by a Lion, an Eagle, an Ox, and a Man? Don’t be so literalistic, man.

When the subject is God Himself, one should never take the subject too lightly. He is the Lord our God and it is not for us to take His name in vain as a form of entertainment, even if we rationalize doing so in terms of metaphor or allegory.

Further, elements such as the Lion of Judah or the symbols for each of the Gospels are in no way meant in the literal sense that Lewis’ Aslan is.

 

[LRThunder]

Yes, they’re out on DVD, as a set. The production values aren’t Industrial Light and Magic, but the scripts are true not only “in spirit” but much closer to Lewis’ actual words than the Walden Media productions. They’re worth it for that alone.

:yup:

 

[Della]

When the subject is God Himself, one should never take the subject too lightly. He is the Lord our God and it is not for us to take His name in vain as a form of entertainment, even if we rationalize doing so in terms of metaphor or allegory.

Further, elements such as the Lion of Judah or the symbols for each of the Gospels are in no way meant in the literal sense that Lewis’ Aslan is.

You almost had it, but seemed to slip by you. Lewis does not intend that we should literally think of as Aslan as Christ, but only that Aslan shows us what Christ did by dying for us, etc.–a way to meet him with fresh eyes. Aslan is exactly a metaphor–a literary device.

No one has taken Christ’s name in vain via reading/viewing the Narnia stories. Just the opposite has happened. Again and again, people, especially children, have come to see Christ outside of the encrustations of religiosity and so have come to recognize him in true religion.

But, we are taking the thread way off topic here. If you don’t wish to see the movies or read the books, that’s up to you. But, I know exactly what Lewis intended, and as such, I not only enjoy the Narnia stories, I promote them (and Tolkien’s works) every opportunity I can because they bring Christ to those who see/read them.

 

[Other_Eric]

You almost had it, but seemed to slip by you. Lewis does not intend that we should literally think of as Aslan as Christ, but only that Aslan shows us what Christ did by dying for us, etc.–a way to meet him with fresh eyes. Aslan is exactly a metaphor–a literary device.

No one has taken Christ’s name in vain via reading/viewing the Narnia stories. Just the opposite has happened. Again and again, people, especially children, have come to see Christ outside of the encrustations of religiosity and so have come to recognize him in true religion.

But, we are taking the thread way off topic here. If you don’t wish to see the movies or read the books, that’s up to you. But, I know exactly what Lewis intended, and as such, I not only enjoy the Narnia stories, I promote them (and Tolkien’s works) every opportunity I can because they bring Christ to those who see/read them.

I don’t know that we are taking this thread “way off topic.” The original question asked whether anyone was excited about seeing the Prince Caspian movie. I maintain that viewed properly, Christians ought to be extremely wary of the content of the Chronicles of Narnia and that this attitude has a firm foundation in the Tradition and teachings of the Church.

I am not sure that I follow your point on Aslan. Either the character is meant to be Christ, in which case the stories founder upon the objections I have here raised or the character is meant to be someone other than Christ in which case we have in the Narnia stories a polytheistic or, perhaps, Pelagian system that Lewis is proposing. Either should be deeply worrying to the Christian parent.

Christ and representations of Christ in literature need to be handled with the utmost care. To use His identity or likeness in service to something that is, in the end, alien to Christian teaching is very much to take His name in vain. To read and/or view productions based on this flawed work is to participate in the sin of the author.

Further, I am not convinced that what the youth of the day really need is a concept of Christ outside the confines of the Church. The last fifty years has had a little too much free-thinking as children have grown up to discover, apparently with the help of the Narnia stories, that they are perfectly capable of finding Christ on their own and that there is no need of a formal church. Thus, it seems that what you regard as “coming to see Christ outside of the encrustations of religiosity” is, in reality, nothing more than a recipe for a poisonous brand of individualism and moral relativity.

 

[duskyjewel]

Wow…I bet Other Eric REALLY hates the movie “Dogma.” Personally, I thought it was hilarious.

 

[smswife]

OtherEric:

I doubt if I’ll convince you, but perhaps I can paraphrase you Lewis’s words about Narnia, spoken by Aslan to the children of our world. He told them that they were allowed to learn to know him in Narnia, so that they would know him in our world.

That is precisely what the Narnia stories do for children, teach them to know and love someone like Aslan, to help them to know and love Christ. They certainly did that for me, when I read them for the 1st time in college. I still think of Puddleglum in the Underworld in *The Silver Chair *as an admirable defense of faith.

In one of Lewis’s letters he responds to a mother who had written of her child who was worried that he loved Aslan more than Jesus. Lewis told her that what the child loved about Aslan were all attributes of Jesus. If the mother could show the child this, he would see that the stories were actually helping him to love Jesus.

I agree, this is something that should be taken very seriously, and as a mother, I am very careful about what I allow my children to view and read. Of course the best and most important influence on their faith is the Church and her teachings, and they are learning this. But they will also be allowed to read and watch the Narnia Chronicles because I think they will help their faith.

You are free to disagree, but I think you are missing the point of these stories if you do.

What sort of books would you allow a child to read?

 

[Other_Eric]

OtherEric:

I doubt if I’ll convince you, but perhaps I can paraphrase you Lewis’s words about Narnia, spoken by Aslan to the children of our world. He told them that they were allowed to learn to know him in Narnia, so that they would know him in our world.

That is precisely what the Narnia stories do for children, teach them to know and love someone like Aslan, to help them to know and love Christ. They certainly did that for me, when I read them for the 1st time in college. I still think of Puddleglum in the Underworld in *The Silver Chair *as an admirable defense of faith.

In one of Lewis’s letters he responds to a mother who had written of her child who was worried that he loved Aslan more than Jesus. Lewis told her that what the child loved about Aslan were all attributes of Jesus. If the mother could show the child this, he would see that the stories were actually helping him to love Jesus.

I agree, this is something that should be taken very seriously, and as a mother, I am very careful about what I allow my children to view and read. Of course the best and most important influence on their faith is the Church and her teachings, and they are learning this. But they will also be allowed to read and watch the Narnia Chronicles because I think they will help their faith.

You are free to disagree, but I think you are missing the point of these stories if you do.

What sort of books would you allow a child to read?

I have one son and I am extremely careful in the literature I allow him to read. Currently we are reading the Inferno from Dante’s Divine Comedy and have also read The Jeweler’s Shop by Karol Wojtyla and various works by the Church Fathers. I take my responsibility to rear him properly in the faith with the utmost seriousness and carefully shepherd him away from anything that, in my judgment, might cause him to question any aspect of the faith.

I thank you for your kind permission to allow me to disagree with you on this matter and hope that, in exercising this freedom, I do not cause you very much distress. Frankly, the character of Aslan is one that cannot help but confuse a child about the nature of Christ, the Incarnation and the Passion. These are bedrock principles of Christianity that one ought to be firmly grounded in before one is exposed to literature such as Narnia. The muddle-headed defenses proffered by Lewis and others on this forum only expose for me only the subtle traps that the books contain.

Perhaps, once my son has been confirmed and is secure in his faith, I will consent to his reading these books but only as an exercise in cultural education, not as a faith formation tool.

 

[smswife]

I thank you for your kind permission to allow me to disagree with you on this matter and hope that, in exercising this freedom, I do not cause you very much distress.

You’re welcome! You have not caused me any distress.

We all need to decide as parents what is appropriate for our children. If you believe that the Narnia stories are harmful, of course you have an obligation to keep them away from your son, and warn others as you have here.

To be honest, yours was the first criticism I have seen of the Narnia stories that in my opinion was worth considering. I will be more careful now than I otherwise would have been to guard my children against confusion. I can see how perhaps some children who were taught nothing but Narnia as theology may be confused, but I would argue that in that case, Narnia is better than nothing as a start to Christian faith.

My son is only 7 years old and is a voracious reader. Without guidance he would be reading Captain Underpants, Star Wars stories, and comic books. I would much rather see him reading Narnia! In fact, I have some trouble keeping him satisfied with the volume of books he would like to read. There is so much out there that is really bad, like “The Golden Compass” that it is hard to keep up.

I won’t ask you your opinion of Harry Potter. I haven’t let him read or see that (yet).

 

[thomasf]

There was a series of radio dramas done by the BBC of all of the books in the Chronicles. It is extremely well done and if you can get your hands on them, I can’t recommend them highly enough.