Muhammad (pbuh), the Last Prophet

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Muslims have no such issues whatsoever with regard to authentication of the Qur’an.
I believe it authentic and accurate to what Muhammed said and did. For the life of me I cannot see how you think it true.

Just like Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. They too are authentic forgeries, and accurate representations of a deranged mind. It does not mean they are accurate with respect to what they contain.

I believe the BOM is a fantasy of Joseph Smith that has fooled many.

Since both the Koran and BOM use the OT & NT as the basis of their truth, they should remain true to it. They do not, and sice they do not they can and should be rejected.

A person of integrity and character would admit as much. Simple logic should not be confounded by lies, as both the Qur’an and BOM do: lie.
 
There is just no plausible way that the text of the Qur’an could have been corrupted or altered.

The following is an excerpt from an article

One of the most common myths about the Qur’an, is that Usman (r.a.), the third Caliph of Islam authenticated and compiled one Qur’an, from a large set of mutually contradicting copies. The Qur’an, revered as the Word of Allah (swt) by Muslims the world over, is the same Qur’an as the one revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It was authenticated and written under his personal supervision. We will examine the roots of the myth which says that Usman (r.a.) had the Qur’an authenticated.:
  1. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself supervised and authenticated the written texts of the Qur’an
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was an Ummi who could not read and write. Therefore, after receiving each revelation, he would repeat it to his Companions. They would write down the revelation, and he would recheck by asking them to read what they had written. If there was any mistake, the Prophet would immediately point it out and have it corrected and rechecked. Similarly he would even recheck and authenticate the portions of the Qur’an memorized by the Companions. In this way, the complete Qur’an was written down under the personal supervision of the Prophet (pbuh).
  1. Order and sequence of Qur’an divinely inspired
The complete Qur’an was revealed over a period of 22½ years portion by portion, as and when it was required. The Qur’an was not compiled by the Prophet in the chronological order of revelation. The order and sequence of the Qur’an too was Divinely inspired and was instructed to the Prophet by Allah (swt) through archangel Jibraeel. Whenever a revelation was conveyed to his companions, the Prophet would also mention in which surah (chapter) and after which ayat (verse) this new revelation should fit.

Every Ramadhaan all the portions of the Qur’an that had been revealed, including the order of the verses, were revised and reconfirmed by the Prophet with archangel Jibraeel. During the last Ramadhaan, before the demise of the Prophet, the Qur’an was rechecked and reconfirmed twice.

It is therefore clearly evident that the Qur’an was compiled and authenticated by the Prophet himself during his lifetime, both in the written form as well as in the memory of several of his Companions.
  1. Qur’an copied on one common material
The complete Qur’an, along with the correct sequence of the verses, was present during the time of the Prophet (pbuh). The verses however, were written on separate pieces, scrapes of leather, thin flat stones, leaflets, palm branches, shoulder blades, etc. After the demise of the prophet, Abu Bakr (r.a.), the first caliph of Islam ordered that the Qur’an be copied from the various different materials on to a common material and place, which was in the shape of sheets. These were tied with strings so that nothing of the compilation was lost.
  1. Usman (r.a.) made copies of the Qur’an from the original manuscript
Many Companions of the Prophet used to write down the revelation of the Qur’an on their own whenever they heard it from the lips of the Prophet. However what they wrote was not personally verified by the Prophet and thus could contain mistakes and there were high possibilities of different portions of the Qur’an being missed by different Companions. This gave rise to disputes among Muslims regarding the different contents of the Qur’an during the period of the third Caliph Usman (r.a.).

Usman (r.a.) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur’an, which was authorized by the beloved Prophet (pbuh), from Hafsha (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet’s wife. Usman (r.a.) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur’an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (r.a.) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Usman (r.a.) to the main centres of Muslims.

Two such copies of the copied text of the original Qur’an authenticated by the Prophet are present to this day, one at the museum in Tashkent in erstwhile Soviet Union and the other at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey.

And so, there is really no doubt at all that Qur’an that we see today is, word for word and syllable for syllable, exactly the same copy that was authenticated by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself before his demise.
Hamba the Quran reads as a text with no context. It really is not coherent IMHO.
 
Muhammad, the Last Prophet, hmm.

How about:
  1. Imam Hussein (Muhammad’s grandson)
  2. John Huss
  3. Martin Luther
  4. John Calvin
  5. John Knox
  6. Muhammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab
  7. William Miller
  8. Ellen White
  9. Joseph Smith.
  10. Brigham Young.
  11. Muhammad Ahmad al-Mahdi
  12. Charles Russell
  13. Ayatollah Khomeini
  14. Jim Jones
  15. David Koresh
  16. Osama Bin Laden
  17. and on and on and on until the end of the world.🤷
 
Muhammad, the Last Prophet, hmm.

How about:
  1. Imam Hussein (Muhammad’s grandson)
  2. John Huss
  3. Martin Luther
  4. John Calvin
  5. John Knox
  6. Muhammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab
  7. William Miller
  8. Ellen White
  9. Joseph Smith.
  10. Brigham Young.
  11. Muhammad Ahmad al-Mahdi
  12. Charles Russell
  13. Ayatollah Khomeini
  14. Jim Jones
  15. David Koresh
  16. Osama Bin Laden
  17. and on and on and on until the end of the world.🤷
 
This thread looks to be TLDR for my question, and the movie TLDW, so I must ask - does this animated movie depict Muhammad physically, rather than that one live-action movie where most of the time we see Waraqa (IIRC) and only hear Muhammad’s voice? I’m just curious, especially in light of the stink European Muslims raised about recent depictions of Muhammad.
 
bonsoir hamba2ham,

i am here to reply to what you said about “it’s not probable for the quran to be corrupt.” um, just a memo… it’s not probable for the BIBLE to be corrupted either!!

Ignatius of Antioch was a major write of early Christianity. He was a student of our Beloved Disciple John! he quoted Scripture more then you can imagine.

within the first and second century, EVERY verse from the Bible we have has been quoted by some Church father except 11. EVERY one!!

also, manuscripts from Matthew and Mark have been found, and have been dated in the 60’s AD… so they are close to the originals.

take the quran then… mohammad thanks someone in a hadith for reminding him of some verses he forgot. aisha mentions how sheep and camels eat two surahs! aisha also mentions hows there was one surah that only has 73 verses now, but it was supposed to have 200!

shia muslims believe that uthman took out 25% of the quran for his own agenda.

so what would you trust more? a Bible written by different people, from different places, yet never contradicting themselves, andstudents of Disciples and such confirming it, and manuscripts found shortly after Christ,

or

a quran that has a rough history. that to this date, no one is exactly sure what verses should be abrogated. a quran that aisha says isn’t finished. a quran that even shia muslims question. and a present quran which is actually DIFFERENT then quranic manuscripts found in yemen? a quran that came out in different variants? and believe it or not, a quran that in saudi arabia is different then the one in tunisia! (pm me if you want more info on that.) a quran that ibn ishaq questions, and no early muslims write about uintil hundreds of years later.

you choose which one you would rely on more!
 
To all who are questioning the truth, accuracy and integrity of the Qur’an, there is indeed a foolproof method to test and ascertain these qualities of not just the Qur’an but any scripture in existence.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test everything. Hold on to the good.
 
Apparently they’re not so confident he got into heaven after all…
That was ignorant, rude, and disrespectful. We great each other with wishing peace upon each other, we also, when mentioning ANY of the prophets name’s wish peace upon them out of respect. That includes, Moses, Jesus, Adam, etc, not just Muhammad.
 
Muhammad, the Last Prophet, hmm.

How about:
  1. Imam Hussein (Muhammad’s grandson)
  2. John Huss
  3. Martin Luther
  4. John Calvin
  5. John Knox
  6. Muhammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab
  7. William Miller
  8. Ellen White
  9. Joseph Smith.
  10. Brigham Young.
  11. Muhammad Ahmad al-Mahdi
  12. Charles Russell
  13. Ayatollah Khomeini
  14. Jim Jones
  15. David Koresh
  16. Osama Bin Laden
  17. and on and on and on until the end of the world.🤷
You forgot Baha’u’llah:rolleyes:
 
Hamba the Quran reads as a text with no context. It really is not coherent IMHO.
I believe other than first book the books are ordered by length-not chronologically and as you say there is no context.
 
Muhammad, the Last Prophet, hmm.

How about:
  1. Imam Hussein (Muhammad’s grandson)
  2. John Huss
  3. Martin Luther
  4. John Calvin
  5. John Knox
  6. Muhammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab
  7. William Miller
  8. Ellen White
  9. Joseph Smith.
  10. Brigham Young.
  11. Muhammad Ahmad al-Mahdi
  12. Charles Russell
  13. Ayatollah Khomeini
  14. Jim Jones
  15. David Koresh
  16. Osama Bin Laden
  17. and on and on and on until the end of the world.🤷
How about Yoda? I will admit I dont if chronologically we put in front or behind all the rest.
 
How about Yoda? I will admit I dont if chronologically we put in front or behind all the rest.

And your point is?? Yoda is a fictional character the rest are real persons who masqueraded as prophets of god. Get real or maybe you do think that Yoda is a real person.:mad:
 
To understand how Muslims view earlier Prophets like Jesus, Moses, Noah and Abraham (peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all), then maybe it would be much better if the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself explain it to you.

Abu Huraira reports that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

**“My position, in relation to the prophets who came before me, can be explained in the following example: ‘A man erected a building and adorned his edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche in the corner, where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche! I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in line of the prophets.’” **(Reported by Bukhari and Muslim.)

The Qur’an says:
"O people ! Muhammad has no sons among ye men, but verily, he is the Apostle of God and the last in the line of Prophets. And God is Aware of everything."
(Surah Al Ahzab: 40)

And in another hadith, Thauban reports: “The Holy Prophet (PBUH) observed: And there will arise Thirty imposters in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no Apostle will come after me.” (Abu Dawud, Kitab-ul-Fitan)

There are in fact numerous hadiths which report the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) asserting that he is indeed the Last Prophet and therefore there can be no doubt whatsoever in the minds of Muslims that no new prophet will come after him.

There is absolutely no need at all for a new prophet since the deen (way of life) of Islam has been completed and is perfect in the eyes of God as told in Surah 5:3 of the Qur’an:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."

And so then, if the Creator Himself has said that Islam is perfect and has promised to preserve it till the Day of Judgment, then who are the creations to disagree with Him?

3:19 "The only deen (way of life in religion) for Allah is the deen of Islam."

3:85 "Whoever seeks a way of life (deen) other than the one that Allah has prescribed (Islam), it will never be accepted from them and in the Hereafter, they will be amongst the losers."
 
How about Yoda? I will admit I dont if chronologically we put in front or behind all the rest.

And your point is?? Yoda is a fictional character the rest are real persons who masqueraded as prophets of god. Get real or maybe you do think that Yoda is a real person.:mad:

HES NOT!!!
 
Is there a copy of the Gospel in existence which has been authenticated by Jesus (pbuh) himself?.. Or even Paul for that matter??

Who wrote the Bible?

Muslims have no such issues whatsoever with regard to authentication of the Qur’an.
There is no copy of the Gospel in existence that has been authenticated by Jesus himself…in the same way in which Mohammed authenticated.

Jesus Christ said, “where two or three (or more) are gathered in my name, God is there.” Through Church councils, the leaders of the Church met and agreed on what to consider divinely inspired, and thus we have the New Testament. Copies of these texts existed, and yes, they were critical as to what should be considered divinely inspired and what shouldn’t. The very fact that a) they were representatives of the Church and b) they all agreed points to the divine nature of Scripture. Also, contrast this with the fact that Christians were persecuted by Roman Emperors.

Now, what persecution did Mohammed or the first Muslims go through? If I remember correctly, he was at most “misunderstood”. Furthermore, he established an earthly government that united the Arab tribes under Islam. This was all while Mohammed was *alive. *It looks as if Mohammed had a competitive advantage over Jesus. It’s too bad Jesus didn’t follow the advise of the Zealots and overthrow the Romans in order to secure the accuracy of the Inji or Gospels.

I trust the Bible because I foremost trust the Church and I foremost trust God. God protected the Church through persecution for almost 3 centuries. He furthermore protected the Gospels and other works of the New Testament despite this persecution. Jesus Christ did not need to form a nation to protect it for he said “My Kingdom does not belong to this world.”
 
To understand how Muslims view earlier Prophets like Jesus, Moses, Noah and Abraham (peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all), then maybe it would be much better if the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself explain it to you.

Abu Huraira reports that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

**“My position, in relation to the prophets who came before me, can be explained in the following example: ‘A man erected a building and adorned his edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche in the corner, where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche! I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in line of the prophets.’” **(Reported by Bukhari and Muslim.)

The Qur’an says:
"O people ! Muhammad has no sons among ye men, but verily, he is the Apostle of God and the last in the line of Prophets. And God is Aware of everything."
(Surah Al Ahzab: 40)

And in another hadith, Thauban reports: “The Holy Prophet (PBUH) observed: And there will arise Thirty imposters in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no Apostle will come after me.” (Abu Dawud, Kitab-ul-Fitan)

There are in fact numerous hadiths which report the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) asserting that he is indeed the Last Prophet and therefore there can be no doubt whatsoever in the minds of Muslims that no new prophet will come after him.

There is absolutely no need at all for a new prophet since the deen (way of life) of Islam has been completed and is perfect in the eyes of God as told in Surah 5:3 of the Qur’an:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."

And so then, if the Creator Himself has said that Islam is perfect and has promised to preserve it till the Day of Judgment, then who are the creations to disagree with Him?

3:19 "The only deen (way of life in religion) for Allah is the deen of Islam."

3:85 "Whoever seeks a way of life (deen) other than the one that Allah has prescribed (Islam), it will never be accepted from them and in the Hereafter, they will be amongst the losers."
And what does this prove? Nothing! The fact still remains that you have no proof that anything that Muhammad said was true! You’ve chosen to accept his message strictly on his own word! He testifed to his own “veracity” so he has the “god” that he created, make the above statements! It’s not surprising that he put things like that in the Quran! He did that to keep Muslims enslaved to the creed he founded. Even a child can see through that ploy!

When God singles someone out for a mission as Muhammad claims he had, God always provides proof of the veracity of his messenger. In the case of Muhammad there was none. He claimed to be the greatest and last prophet, and never even performed a single miracle as even his Quran testifies!

And for the compiling of the Quran itself, we have it from Bukhari that within a short period the discrepancies and contradictions that existed in the readings of the Quran became of a still graver nature until at last Khalif Usman took steps to allay the doubts which began to arise in the minds of the people! That’s when he transcribed one complete copy and burnt all the others! So much for the “perfection” of the Quran! And as for its preservation, see here
 
And so then, if the Creator Himself has said that Islam is perfect and has promised to preserve it till the Day of Judgment, then who are the creations to disagree with Him?
The Creator Himself did not say that; Islamic tradition says Gabriel said it on behalf of God to Muhammad to say to the people.

God never spoke directly to Muhammed, and the spirit of the Koran never identifies itself as Gabriel. This is significant in and of itself.

God did speak directly to Abraham, and Moses, and David,… and it was G-d Himself in Jesus who spoke directly to all humanity, and is recorded as such in the Gospels.

You should really examine that claim of authority by Muhammed. Mohamed did not and cannot use the defense Christ used with respect to self testimony. Mohamet had no authority for you to make such a claim as your quote above, and any Quranic claim of authority can be easily dismissed as very self serving.
 
Now, what persecution did Mohammed or the first Muslims go through?
You need to watch this movie.
I trust the Bible because I foremost trust the Church and I foremost trust God. God protected the Church through persecution for almost 3 centuries. He furthermore protected the Gospels and other works of the New Testament despite this persecution.
You need to watch this documentary.
When God singles someone out for a mission as Muhammad claims he had, God always provides proof of the veracity of his messenger. In the case of Muhammad there was none. He claimed to be the greatest and last prophet, and never even performed a single miracle as even his Quran testifies!
The Qur’an itself is the timeless miracle that is the ultimate proof that Muhammad (pbuh) is indeed the Messenger of God.
And for the compiling of the Quran itself, we have it from Bukhari that within a short period the discrepancies and contradictions that existed in the readings of the Quran became of a still graver nature until at last Khalif Usman took steps to allay the doubts which began to arise in the minds of the people! That’s when he transcribed one complete copy and burnt all the others! So much for the “perfection” of the Quran! And as for its preservation, see here
You need to read this article.
The Creator Himself did not say that; Islamic tradition says Gabriel said it on behalf of God to Muhammad to say to the people.

God never spoke directly to Muhammed, and the spirit of the Koran never identifies itself as Gabriel. This is significant in and of itself.
Gabriel (as) did identify himself during the first encounter with Muhammad (pbuh) at the cave of Hira and if you had watched the movie, then you would already know this.

And God did indeed spoke directly to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) during the event known as Isra and Mi’raj (Night Journey) when he ascended to the Heavens.
 
You need to watch this movie.

You need to watch this documentary.

The Qur’an itself is the timeless miracle that is the ultimate proof that Muhammad (pbuh) is indeed the Messenger of God.

You need to read this article.

Gabriel (as) did identify himself during the first encounter with Muhammad (pbuh) at the cave of Hira and if you had watched the movie, then you would already know this.

And God did indeed spoke directly to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) during the event known as Isra and Mi’raj (Night Journey) when he ascended to the Heavens.
This reply of yours proves once again what a waste of time it is to try to reason with you on anything!

One more time! The ultimate proof for Muslims is: “Muhammad said so”! :hypno:
 
hamba - i believe in Deuteronomy 18, it says that if a person speaks anything OTHER THEN FROM GOD, then they are a false prophet.
  1. mohammad claimed it was from the angel gabriel - so mohammad didn’t speak from God. he spoke from an angel!
  2. the Satanic Verses… surah 53.
أَفَرَأَيْتُمُ اللَّاتَ وَالْعُزَّى
وَمَنَاةَ الثَّالِثَةَ الْأُخْرَى
أَلَكُمُ الذَّكَرُ وَلَهُ الْأُنثَى
تِلْكَ إِذًا قِسْمَةٌ ضِيزَى. سورة النجم - سورة ‏٥٣: ١٩-٢٢

although it doesn’t say that now, it originally did. don’t believe me? read ibn ishaqs biography on mohammad. read al tabaris writings. read bukhari hadith. read yusuf alis commentary!

during the time these “revelations” came about, many of mohammads followers were in ethiopia. so mohammad obviously wasn’t very safe. therefore, he felt that the need to produce something that would make the pagans of the qurainish (sp?) happy. so, he made those. it says something like “now tell me about al lat, al uzza, and mannat, the third one another goddess.” and it goes on lol.

so mohammad had spoken what satan said. therefore, he can’t be a prophet of God.

when mohammads followers returned from ethiopia, they were like “what is this!” so mohammad came out with surah 22:52 and 53.
Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:
That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth):
now it is true that prohpets in the Bible had been tested and tempted by satan. but NEVER did satan even once interfere and tell the prophets to preach something that wasn’t from God. never! and if a prophet DID preach something, and then say later on “oh, that was from satan”, people would immediately disreguard them as a prophet, because they had preached something other then what God has told them!

this right here is enough evidence for us, as Christians, to not believe mohammad was a prophet.
 
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