Muslim converts to Christianity

[cathopologist]

Anyway, coming back to the OP;
[

A Yemeni security official said police were cracking down on Muslims who have converted to Christianity.
The official said at least nine people have been detained in recent months. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.
Rights activists and a family member of one of those detained said they feared those arrested could be tortured or abused in prison.
Conversion from Islam to any other religion is illegal in Yemen.
Separately, the official said police also have arrested six Iranians in Yemen who are followers of the Baha’i faith for allegedly belonging to a rebel group. Though not officially banned in Yemen, the Baha’i religion is considered by some Muslims as heresy.](http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1218710405620&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull)
Muslims, you claim “there is no compulsion in religion”, so what is the meaning of this? If these people do not “represent Islam”, then who represents Islam?

 

[cathopologist]

Hmm, are there no Muslims to answer the questions above?

 

[Lapell]

Hum! There have been quite a debate here, but right now it seems that a number of participants are more interested in winning the debate or bickering than in truly shedding light on what they believe and truly listening to words from other people…
False testimonies are not of God and don’t in themselves edify the people.
I know that there are shrewd people who use them for a “wise” purpose though, but never to mislead the people and on a temporary basis! A consistent lie doesn’t become a truth because one sticks with it all the time!
You can believe in something totally false thinking it’s the truth. If you discover that what you thought to be true is wrong, I hope you’ll prefer to have your opinion changed for the sake of Truth rather than lowering yourself to stick to something you know to be a lie!
The Truth and the Light of God are far more important than absolutely winning. Truth shall prevail, not falsehood.
So please be very careful that Truth be more important to you than winning at any cost…

 

[Lapell]

Of course, one can present the Truth rather awkwardly, but in the end if he/she is on the side of the Truth, that ultimately is what matters most, doesn’t it?

 

[Lapell]

** So from now on be careful for everything you hear**.

Wise words, even more if you yourself strive to apply in your life what you preach to others.

 

[LoveofGod]

Anyway, coming back to the OP;

Muslims, you claim “there is no compulsion in religion”, so what is the meaning of this? If these people do not “represent Islam”, then who represents Islam?

carhopologist, As one raised in the middle east, where islamic rulers and governments often follow strict islamic understanding according to that which the later Mohammad and his imams followed, I can tell you it is a western hoax that islam does not do all it can to convert. We were shown versus in our Qur’an where it is good and holy by islamic standards, for children to lie and even murder their parents in order to be a muslim. A Christian under the same Islamic system followed by Mohammad is to be treated either as a slave, or tolerated as a pig (najes), or converted, and if he refuses, killing him or her is no big deal since he is allegedly against God by following God in Jesus Christ. However, for a muslim to choose to follow Christ is an immediate threat to muslims, therefore, by most standards, islam is a cult more than a religion. I don’t mean this in a deragotary or demeaning fashion, because my Dad and most of my family from my Dad’s side is still muslim. My Dad chose not to execute me and it took years of love and prayer to finally bring back our relationship to a friendship, but everytime he hears a muslim mullah preach, unfortunately he becomes dark for a while, until he is away from the islamic land and slowly returns to somewhat normal.

He has kept my faithfulness to Christ a secret from our family, since they would be duty bound to execute me and my family.

I still have many muslim friends in the west, who are muslim by culture only and do not follow their faith as taught in their lands. There are some muslims in the west who have Christianized their faith a bit while living here to make it tolerable to westerners. Their own leaders told me that they are willing to sacrifice false representations of islam for their followers for a while, until they can later indoctrinate them into true islam according to Mohammad’s example.

Many of our Churches in islamic lands were forcefully taken from us, and for 1000s of years, many Moms and Dads were martyred for the faith, but their children were taken to be indoctrinated in islamic cultic thought systems.

Not sure why the westerners who are often logical about their understanding of religion and even hostile to Christianity, will so freely embrace a cult that is so strongly against freedoms they cherish and promote islam in our lands? All I can think is that most of us influenced by Christ would like to think that others are also on the same thoughts as we are. Thankfully, many muslims living in America are embracing a softer gentler remake of islam, but honestly, bin laden is more faithful to the islam that mohammad and his direct followers taught.

 

[dzheremi]

How sad that you cannot openly live your faith around your father and the rest of his side of the family, LoveofGod. I will pray that God may soften their hearts so that they know that you are not a threat to their religion, but a follower of the true God.

I wonder sometimes about the other aspects you’ve posted on, about Muslims in the West. In the town where I live, the second largest foreign-student population at the local university is Saudis, and there are also others from UAE and a few other places. I have befriended a few on very limited terms (as they mostly stick to other Arabic-speakers and Muslims) and found them to be very respectful, though we don’t often discuss religion. Even broaching the subject slightly seems to put them on the defensive, while some others from the same communities have had no trouble openly declaring that they hate the West and can’t wait to return to Saudi. It is a somewhat puzzling situation, these bright young men who hate their surroundings here yet will go out to clubs and engage in the very Western decadence they claim to eschew, with drinking, dancing and all the rest. I don’t understand it.

Anyway, good post.

 

[LoveofGod]

I obviously don’t know all answers, but in regards to the dual standard, the words of our LORD Jesus comes to mind- they clean the outside of the cup , but inside they remain dirty. Better focus on our own hearts and clean our inner man, rather than focus on externals. When Adam sinned, unfortunately, he did not take personal responsibility and repent immediately, but blamed the woman and the woman blamed the serpent. In most islamic ideologies, personal choice to sin is blamed on another. In Afghanistan, women were not allowed to even wear high heals under their chador, because the sound would cause men to lust for her. Instead of beating the woman by canes to obey the rule, Christ our God rightly would call us to individually examine our own hearts and ask God to indwell us deeply and by theosis transformation, have The divine Strength of God overcome the desires of the flesh. Our God given gift of freewill is strongly held up scripturally and in the writings of our fathers, and therefore, we would not be allowed to blame another for our choice to sin.

When a muslim enters into a bar to lust after women, they blame the so-called “Christian” west as the reason why they are tempted and sin. In islamic traditions, I was taught by the mullahs that we have sighehs to help cover our sinful sexual uncontrollable desires. So, if a muslim man is away from his wife on a business trip for a few months, since according to islamic beliefs he cannot control himself, he can sign a contract of “temporary marriage like status” to allow him to have sex with a prostitute, until he returns home. This practice was one major difference that led me to follow Christ, since Christ’s call to purity goes way beyond even outward lusts, and our God’s words on earth were very clear that since He can see our hearts, if I lust after a woman in my heart, God considers this adulterous and I would need to repent and move towards being Perfect as our Father in Heaven is Perfect. Christ knew nothing of the muslim blame to another for one’s personal choices to sin, but rather calls us all to live as holy men and women, revealing Christ’s Love to others who also need to know of the path that is higher than any obedience to mere outward ceremonial system.

By the way, Christ’s High Standards of loving Holiness was another reason why I found Christianity to be so pure and holy and above all western promoted lifestyle choices against God’s Loving Will and obviously much stronger call than the islamic one that made provisions for my flesh. I remember my mullah saying that a sinful thought would have to go beyond 4 minutes before it was considered a sin. Some of these rules and allowances are more modern among muslims while others go back 100s of years. When the prophet of islam Mohammad was 53 years old, islamic hadith reveals that he had “thoughts” towards a 5 year old girl, therefore, he married her at age 6, and added her to his heram of women.

 

[cathopologist]

LoveofGod, thank you for sharing that with me. It is truly hard to understand from the comfort of our respectable non-Muslim countries and homes. The Muslim population in my country is growing, not through conversion but through inter-faith and inter-racial marriage. Birth rates amongst the Muslims are the highest.

Luckily, i live in a socialist country (i have issues with my government as well - but i will not indulge that here), where there is zero tolerance for terrorist wannabe’s and religious fanatics.

Even the Falun Gong cult is banned here alongside the Jehovah Witnesses, because they have caused alot of trouble here in the past for their fanaticism.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Actually, this is the hadith, narrated by Abu Hurayrah and reported by Imam al-Bukhari: “The religion (of Islam) is easy, and **whoever makes the religion a rigour, it will overpower him. **So, **follow a middle course (in worship); if you can’t do this, do something near to it and give glad tidings and seek help (of Allah) **at morn and at dusk and some part of night”.

For me, Islam has never been anything but easy. Even when I thought it was going to be hard, it was easy. I didn’t pray for 6 months after converting, but once I started, I never left it. I thought it might be too much, all 5 prayers every day, but it wasn’t. It was easy. My first Ramadan, I thought it was going to be too hard, but it wasn’t–it was easy. Everything has been like that. But in fact you epitomize that hadith, because as you said you made it difficult for yourself, and then it overpowered you. Wallaahi, Muhammad the Messenger of Allah, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, spoke the truth.

No kidding.

No offense or anything, but I think you had a need for spirituality before you left Islam. Reading books and eating only dhabihah, avoiding music and movies–that doesn’t make you a spiritual person.

Did you make a particular effort to study only outward sciences? Or inward ones?

Imam Malik said something really interesting–at least, I’ve read this attributed to Imam Malik. He said that learning Tasawwuf (inward sciences) without learning Knowledge (outward sciences fiqh, shari’ah, etc) is the way to heresy, and that learning Knowledge without the inward sciences is the way to corruption, but that you have to study both to find the truth and the reality of Islam.

But the Prophet Muhammad (saaws) gave some advice: he said to take food from the part of the plate that is closest to you. The plate will turn, and you can get to the other side later. But this applies to knowledge–we should only try to learn what we can grasp, and what we are prepared for.

As someone who converted to Islam from Christianity, I see spirituality in Islam that I couldn’t even begin to imagine as a Christian. And I do see places where, in Islam, people have diverged from spiritual and tended towards legal traditions. But I really see that spirituality is there, in Islam, with purpose, and with knowledge.

If I may ask, what type of Christianity did you convert from?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

There is only ONE deity in Christianity. The things you claim are faulty and twisted form of the Trinitiarian doctrine taught you in your Koran and are definitely alien to our scripture and faith.

Yes, they (the Muslims) commit both ta’jil/ta’til and tajsim/tashbih

 

[Angelos]

Yes, they (the Muslims) commit both ta’jil/ta’til and tajsim/tashbih

Yes. This is what they are almost programmed to do.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Funny then how she didn’t say that though. She said son and holy spirit… not wife/mother and son. Proves you wrong upon wrong. Ouch.

Yep you are. But I’m soooo bored today! So I hit “view post.”

LOL. Walhamdulillah. As Muslim Woman pointed out already (quite cleverly, I might add), the Trinity is, to Christians, a mystery!! hehe

Yes, He’s a mystery because we don’t commit the tashbih of claiming we know God the omniscient as He knows Himself.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

inJESUS;4072875:

Wallahi… love it! Sure, Muslims suck at debating. Self included of course (as we all know!)

The Bible also says there is nothing like Elohim. 2 Samuel 7:22

Wherefore thou art great, Jehovah Elohim; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee

, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

That is the Darby Translation.

What amuses me is probably not making sense to you. morningstar said he understood the Trinity. And Muslim Woman asked, but isn’t it a mystery?

That’s what was funny to me. She is too clever for you guys I think. The irony is just… it’s so strong in this thread, it’s getting the better of me.

Is it a mystery or not?

Yes, it’s a mystery because us finite humans cannot comprehend the Infinite God. I know Muslims think otherwise.

Btw, how do you explain that the Quran itself calls Jesus God’s Word and His Spirit?

Do you understand it or not?

As far as humanly possible, which isn’t far, yes. I know that Muslims reject what they don’t understand (John 4:22-3), yet they still claim the Quran is uncreated although Allah creates all.

Does it make sense or not?

Yes. 1X1X1=1.

Of course it’s a mystery that nobody can understand. And it doesn’t make a lick of sense either, which is why you have to call it a mystery.

No, we call it a mystery because we don’t have the arrogance to claim omniscience.

Muslims do not have that problem. One God means One God.

Oh, I’m sorry. Muslims slaughtered each other over the 99 names of God, the uncreated Quran, etc…

There is nothing like the One God.

Yes, Who has reveaeld Himself as the Holy Trinity. Do you know better than Him how to describe Himself?

Becomes even more difficult to rationalize if somehow there are three personalities of that One God, because that means there might actually be something like the One God… Or there might be something “like” the Father.

If we were Arians, that would be a problem, of like essence (Homoiousia) instead of the Orthodox Catholic dogma of One Esssence (Homoousia), as we confess in the Creed.

Speaking of creeds, it has always amazed me how Muslims criticize our veneration of the Theotokos Ever Virgin Mary, and are so blind as to the equality they put their prophet on with God. Just look at your local coffee shop: the calligraphy you see “Allah” and “Muhammad” in the same size, the shahadatan has Allah as the object of one clause, Muhammad of the other. And that’s not even mentioning hadith like "I am Ahmad without the “m” (i.e. Ahad “One,” i.e. God), the belief in Muhammad’s preexistence, and the FACT that there are Muslims who outright claim Muhammad is God.

Really, the irony of this thread is just terrifying… can’t you see that?

Oh, yes. I see plenty of irony.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Salaam/peace;

Quran did not say Mary , Jesus & God are Trinity …show me where is it ?

Show me where else the Quran explains the Holy Trinity (the Word Thaluth literally means “Three” as the Quran explains elsewhere).

To believe that Mary (p) is mother of God is shirk / blasphemy .

Let us praise the pure Virgin, who held within her Him who the heavens could not hold.

It is the height of piety.

To believe that Mary (p) has any power to protect u is blasphemy.

And belief in the intercession of Muhammad is what?

Christans are worshipping human being , angels BESIDES one true God . Quran is rightly pointed out about this mistake & warn Christans not to repeat the sin.

What angels are we “worshipping.” I’ve been to Church several decades and seem to have missed that.

We worship Christ because He is God. Why do Muslims worship Muhammad?

 

[Malgosia]

For me, Islam has never been anything but easy. Even when I thought it was going to be hard, it was easy. I didn’t pray for 6 months after converting, but once I started, I never left it. I thought it might be too much, all 5 prayers every day, but it wasn’t. It was easy. My first Ramadan, I thought it was going to be too hard, but it wasn’t–it was easy. Everything has been like that. But in fact you epitomize that hadith, because as you said you made it difficult for yourself, and then it overpowered you. Wallaahi, Muhammad the Messenger of Allah, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, spoke the truth.

As someone who converted to Islam from Christianity, I see spirituality in Islam that I couldn’t even begin to imagine as a Christian. And I do see places where, in Islam, people have diverged from spiritual and tended towards legal traditions. But I really see that spirituality is there, in Islam, with purpose, and with knowledge.

Sister Amy, I am glad to know Islam is working so great for you.

Therefore I am sure you are very pleased to know that when Muhammad was supposedly taken to hell to see it, he said: “Most of inhabitants of hell are women”.

Quite a future to look forward to.

Is most of evil of this world perpetrated by women???

Why then most of inhabitants of hell are women? Where do bad men go?

Profound questions, aren’t they?

Congratulations on a “wise” choice. I suppose you think that the most important thing is how the religion is working out for you.
How easy it is to follow.

Many left Jesus because of His difficult teachings. He never said: “No, wait, that’s not what I ment… It is supposed to be easy to follow”.

Ultimately, what matters is where the religion leads you, and not how easy it is to follow.

According to Muhammad, since you are female, it will lead you to hell.

Enjoy!

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Salaam/peace;

how do u pray now ?

which version ?

Knowing where this question is coming from, what version of the Quran do you use?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qira%27at
answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/index.html

There are besides the accepted qira’at, there are other varients.
answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/index.html
answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/texthistory.html

also Arthur Jeffrey’s “Material for the Study for the History of the Text of the Quran” based on a translation of Muslim works.

This is not even touching the question of naskh"abrogation."

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Salaam/peace;

many things of NT are found in OT. So , do u think Jesus (p) copied all these or holy Spirit inspired copy writers to did that ?.

The NT actually cites the OT, and refers to actual passages in it. The Quran, except for one quote from the Psalms, only makes vague claims of confirming “what was revealed before” while contradicting the Holy Bible.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Exactly I always wanted to say that&gave this 5:116verse as reference many times.but can you tell me when christians worship mary as god(goddess)?mary isn’t our goddess but koran claimed it!so isn’t a big mistake of koran?because catholics never think marry as god.

Even a bigger mistake: the Jews do NOT claim that Ezrah is the Son of God, although the Quran claims they do.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Salaam/peace;

by late Ahmed Deedat

Three Questions!

Please note that three different and distinct questions were posed to John the Baptist and to which he gave three emphatic “NO’S” as answers.

To recapitulate:-

1. ART THOU THE CHRIST?
2. ART THOU ELIAS?
3. ART THOU THAT PROPHET?

But the learned men of Christendom somehow only see two questions implied here.

To make doubly clear that the Jews definitely had T-H-R-E-E separate prophecies in their minds when they were interrogating John the Baptist,

let us read the remonstrance of the Jews in the verses following:

"AND THEY ASKED HIM, AND SAID UNTO HIM, WHY BAPTIZEST THOU THEN, IF THOU BE

a) NOT THAT CHRIST,

b) NOR ELIAS,

c) NEITHER THAT PROPHET?" (John 1:25)

The Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of THREE distinct prophecies:

One, the coming of CHRIST.

Two the coming of ELIAS, and

Three, the coming of THAT PROPHET.

You assume that those asking the questions knew what they were talking about. As their questioning of Christ shows, they did not.

And the NT nor the Church await “that prophet,” whoever he might claim to be. Lots of warnings on false prophets, though.

Btw, the Jews still await the Messiah, and still await Elijah. Where are they waiting for “that prophet?”