Muslins and the BVM

[Luvtosew]

Because God chose Mary to be the best of all nations.

I am sorry that till now, some of the non-Muslims don’t know that we love May so much, and some of them don’t even know how much we love Prophet Jesus.

You will never find a Muslim who does not believe in Jesus and his virgin mother.

So you believe Jesus as a prophet, and you believe Mary and Jesus were both born sinless right, but do you place Mary above Jesus?

Did Muhammed perform miracles like Jesus?

 

[Trebor135]

Because God chose Mary to be the best of all nations.

Let’s review our conversation:

1. First you wrote,

"Of course Muslims hold Mary in high regard, and the name Maryam, Mary in Arabic, is very famous among Muslim women. And we believe that she is the best woman of all nations. Quran 3:42. Behold! The angels said: “O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee;―chosen thee above the women of all nations.”

1. Then I asked,

“Why did Amina, the mother of Muhammad, not receive such special favours from God? What makes St. Mary so important?”

1. And now you repeat one part of what you said before–without answering my question.

I’m confused; maybe there was a misunderstanding. What I’d like to know is the following: why was `Amina not born sinless but Maryam was born pure?

I am sorry that till now, some of the non-Muslims don’t know that we love May so much, and some of them don’t even know how much we love Prophet Jesus.

Increasing the level of knowledge about different religions is a noble goal.

You will never find a Muslim who does not believe in Jesus and his virgin mother.

But Muslims do not believe in the same Jesus and St. Mary as Christians do, because both groups disagree on who they were and what they did in our world’s spiritual history.

Let’s say we both launched a campaign to tell others about Dubai. You proclaimed that the area was on the Arabian Peninsula in the Middle East, part of the UAE, and had a lot of migrant workers living there, especially from India and Pakistan. But I told everyone that Dubai was on the Iberian Peninsula ( Arabic: شبه جزيرة أيبيريا ) in southwestern Europe, part of Andorra ( Arabic: أندورا ), and had large numbers of foreigners residing there, particularly from Portugal and Spain.

In this scenario, you and I are describing Dubai in two very different ways. So, is it really true that we are talking about the same place?

 

[elwill]

Let’s review our conversation:

1. First you wrote,

"Of course Muslims hold Mary in high regard, and the name Maryam, Mary in Arabic, is very famous among Muslim women. And we believe that she is the best woman of all nations. Quran 3:42. Behold! The angels said: “O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee;―chosen thee above the women of all nations.”

1. Then I asked,

“Why did Amina, the mother of Muhammad, not receive such special favours from God? What makes St. Mary so important?”

1. And now you repeat one part of what you said before–without answering my question.

I’m confused; maybe there was a misunderstanding. What I’d like to know is the following: why was `Amina not born sinless but Maryam was born pure?

let me inform you what quran said about Mary’s mother

"Remember , when the wife of Imran said, “Oh my Lord ! I dedicate to you that which is in my womb freed for your service, so accept this of me for You are the Hearer and knower of all.” 3/35

“When she delivered her she said, " O my Lord! I am delivered of a female child, " and Allah knows best of that which She had brought forth and this female is not like a male.” 3/36

“And I have named her Mary.” 3/36

**“I command her and her offspring to be protected from Satan, the rejected.” 3/36 **

“Graciously did her Lord accept her and made her grow in purity and beauty.” 3/37

The wife of Imran, and mother of Mary, out of her devotion to God vowed to dedicate the child in her womb to the sacred service of God and asked God to accept her vow. Her hopes were in a male child who will be brought up to service the places of worship and be dedicated to serve God. Delivering a female child, she realized that things did not go according to her plan, but decided to fulfill her vow, and Maryam was the name of the child. And she made a prayer for her newly born asking God to protect her and her offspring from Satan.

"So her Lord accepted her with good acceptance. He made her grow in a good manner and put her under the care of Zachariya. Every time he entered Al-Mihrab (the praying place) to visit her, he found her supplied with sustenance [food]. He said:
‘O Maryam! From where have you got this?’ She said:
‘This is from Allah. Verily, Allah provides sustenance who He wills, without limit.’ "

i hope if this answer your qurstion
Mary was accepted by God, and was brought up in a good manner after she was put under the care of Zachary. Through her devotion and righteous upbringing and the prayer from her mother, Mary became the best woman to ever live as depicted in the Quran in the verses 3:42:

 

[elwill]

So you believe Jesus as a prophet, and you believe Mary and Jesus were both born sinless right, but do you place Mary above Jesus?

Whenever a child is born it is born free of all sin and is a pure individual. Some people believe that a child is born sinful, but Islam has taught us that a child is born free of all sin. It is born is a state of Fitra

When a child grows it gets corrupted and the child beings to learn from its family and the environment in which it lives. This child is no longer on the Fitra

 

[GaryTaylor]

Whenever a child is born it is born free of all sin and is a pure individual. Some people believe that a child is born sinful, but Islam has taught us that a child is born free of all sin. It is born is a state of Fitra

When a child grows it gets corrupted and the child beings to learn from its family and the environment in which it lives. This child is no longer on the Fitra

Does the Quran and all major areas of Islam believe “Whenever a child is born it is free of all sin and is a pure individual?”

What exactly is “Fitra”. Sounds like a state of consciousness, thus memory and awareness.

So Adam fit how into the Quran through the Garden, fallen state, What happened to Adam/Eve when they were ejected from the Garden?

 

[elwill]

the concept of sinner which i understand refer to someone make sins with consciousness , not for a baby touched by satan in the hour of birth

 

[elwill]

Does the Quran and all major areas of Islam believe “Whenever a child is born it is free of all sin and is a pure individual?”

The idea that innocent babies or children are sinful sounds completely absurd to a muslim
Humankind, according to Islam is born in a state of purity, without sin and naturally inclined to worship and praise God.
However, human beings are also given freewill and are thus capable of making mistakes and committing sins; they are even capable of committing great evil.
Whenever a person commits a sin, he alone is responsible for that sin. Every person is responsible for his or her own actions. Consequently, no human being who has ever lived is responsible for the mistakes made by Adam and Eve:

“And no bearer of burdens shall bear another’s burden.” (Fatir 35:18)

What exactly is “Fitra”. Sounds like a state of consciousness, thus memory and awareness.

state of purity

So Adam fit how into the Quran through the Garden, fallen state, What happened to Adam/Eve when they were ejected from the Garden?

Adam and Eve made a mistake, they repented sincerely, and God in His infinite wisdom forgave them.

 

[elwill]

why i need catholic prespective , the question was forwarded to islamic prespective ( about hadith narrated by the prophet ) so i used islamic prespetive in clarifying it

there’s nothing in islam called original sin

 

[Trebor135]

i hope if this answer your qurstion
Mary was accepted by God, and was brought up in a good manner after she was put under the care of Zachary. Through her devotion and righteous upbringing and the prayer from her mother, Mary became the best woman to ever live as depicted in the Quran in the verses 3:42:

OK, I’m beginning to understand. St. Mary was kept pure because of the circumstances surrounding her birth, not because of the special role she would play as the future mother of Jesus.

I’m reminded of the occasion on which an angel told Zachariah ahead of time about his future son John the Baptist, as recorded in Luke chapter one:

[11] And there appeared to him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
[12] And Zechari’ah was troubled when he saw him, and fear fell upon him.
[13] But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechari’ah, for your prayer is heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.
[14] And you will have joy and gladness,
and many will rejoice at his birth;
[15] for he will be great before the Lord,
and he shall drink no wine nor strong drink,
and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit,
even from his mother’s womb.
[16] And he will turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God,
[17] and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Eli’jah,
to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,
and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just,
to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”

Oddly enough, the New Testament nowhere discusses the conception or birth of St. Mary…

 

[Trebor135]

Whenever a child is born it is born free of all sin and is a pure individual. Some people believe that a child is born sinful, but Islam has taught us that a child is born free of all sin. It is born is a state of Fitra

When a child grows it gets corrupted and the child beings to learn from its family and the environment in which it lives. This child is no longer on the Fitra

If all children are born in a state of fitra, then why did God have to prevent Satan from harming `Isa and Maryam at birth?

And around what age do humans become corrupted by their family and environment? If persistent sin is a result of seeing others’ bad behaviour, should we go to psychologists to overcome this trauma (in a sense)?

 

[MartinJordan]

Great questions there Trebor135

I don’t know…so much of Mary’s story in the Quran seems to be a mish mash of coincidences (with the Bible), misinformation and some oddities (giving birth under a palm trees and what not). Also who is this Zachary ?

Kind of reminds me of facts like Pharaoh’s daughter that discovered Moses but in the Quran…Pharaoh’s wife:shrug: Interestingly I find that in the Hadith that Pharaohs wife is “best of women”.

Keep up the great queries.

MJ

 

[Trebor135]

Can you elaborate?

When I wrote, “One wonders why, in the Muslim framework, God decides to do such great things for Jesus and St. Mary rather than Muhammad and Amina, when Muslims believe that Jesus was sent only to the Jewish people but Muhammad to all of humanity?”, I was looking for an Islamic explanation for these seemingly odd aspects of the circumstances surrounding the conception/birth of Islam’s two greatest prophets and matriarchs.

Yes, this is how I understand.

 

[Trebor135]

the concept of sinner which i understand refer to someone make sins with consciousness , not for a baby touched by satan in the hour of birth

But if Satan touches a baby at his/her birth, how doesn’t this event have any impact on the child? If the baby remains innocent, what motivation does Satan have for touching the child?

 

[Trebor135]

Adam and Eve made a mistake, they repented sincerely, and God in His infinite wisdom forgave them.

If Adam and Eve were forgiven of their “mistake”, why has God still not allowed humanity to leave earth and enter the garden? In effect, he’s still punishing the innocent descendants of those who committed a “mistake” so long ago for an event in which humanity had no role.

 

[Luvtosew]

Interesting, Where is the garden?

Are we talking the sin nature? by original sin do you mean a sin already in us when born. I know were born with a sin nature, but I’m not sure if that is what is meant by original sin.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Sorry there Elwill, I became busy yesterday.

I fail to see this Pure State all are born into, had this been a reality, there would be No Corruption to infect the pure state. It wouldn’t and couldn’t then exist. Nothing means exactly that…Nothing. Something cannot be Nothing.

Children cannot sin till the age of reason, granted thats very Catholic thinking. However they are born with the inclination to sin, or we would have at least “ONE” pure, sinless, soul to prove the point otherwise. Where does this exist?

This gets back to the BVM who re-established the ladder/path/highway to Salvation though Faith, which ceased to exist because of Adam and Eves transgression.

So this “inclination to sin” came from somewhere, and let me suggest to you “Adam and Eve”. And it is still very real today as we all see.

 

[elwill]

But if Satan touches a baby at his/her birth, how doesn’t this event have any impact on the child? If the baby remains innocent, what motivation does Satan have for touching the child?

some scholars says that satan never leaves his enemy without harming it
,
God will condemns us for our behaviours and our seeds . the children remain innocent because they didn’t yet make a sin , touching of satan for them isn’t a sin of a baby

 

[elwill]

If Adam and Eve were forgiven of their “mistake”, why has God still not allowed humanity to leave earth and enter the garden? In effect, he’s still punishing the innocent descendants of those who committed a “mistake” so long ago for an event in which humanity had no role.

well , i can say that i understood your view of this concept

you consider that God punished all humanity by giving them the choice to believe or didsbelieve through theire life in earth becasue of sin of adam
without sin of adam , all of humanity now should be birthed in heaven directly , is that your concept for the original sin ?

 

[elwill]

i’m happy to find myself in a common ground with you (name removed by moderator)

 

[GaryTaylor]

some scholars says that satan never leaves his enemy without harming it
,
God will condemns us for our behaviours and our seeds . the children remain innocent because they didn’t yet make a sin , touching of satan for them isn’t a sin of a baby

God condemns “No-One” man condemns himself by refusing “Grace”. God gives man the Free-Will to chose His Grace, to partake in eternal life. Man chose’s to make their God this physical realm thus reject in Free-Will Grace by the inclination to sin, which can only be reduced by Grace.

Satan cannot touch purity, purity must “cooperate” with evil for this to occur, thus the temptation in the Garden, thus the trangression in Free-Will.

The Inclination to Sin exists, or we would simply have an example in Islam to show us otherwise. Can Mohammad claim this?

How about Jesus and Mary, where are their sins recorded?