Muslins and the BVM

[Trebor135]

My Pakistani friends have told me of Muslim women’s devotion to Mary, mother of a great prophet. They pilgrimage to what they believe is her grave.

Were those women Ahmadis by chance? Their sect of Islam, which emerged during the late nineteenth century, holds that Jesus traveled to Kashmir…

One of these women was educated in a catholic convent in Kurachi and was anxious to attend a TLM - but it was not available at the time…

Wow. How unfortunate that the lady wasn’t able to see her wish fulfilled…

 

[elwill]

We still suffer the consequences that followed the choices made by Adam and Eve.

But in Islamic theology, is there an explanation for why humanity has not been allowed to enter paradise? No one alive today is responsible at all for what Adam and Eve did.

in islamic theology , Adam repented for his action after his fall and Allah forgave him and provided him the means of living on the earth for a limited amount of time until, they can be joined with him again in the hearafter. And thus started the test for mankind.

so as he test Adam and Eve in the beginning and they failed in the test by listenning to satan

all of us are now in the same test , so we try to not fail like Adam (pbuh) by listenning to satan

so everyone is responsible on his own choice , the only difference is that Adam and Eve were the first of people were tested outside the earth , they didn’t recognized the enemity of satan to them while we are tested in earth and knows his enemity for us

in few words we dont see earth as a punishment but a test for humanity

 

[GaryTaylor]

My Pakistani friends have told me of Muslim women’s devotion to Mary, mother of a great prophet. They pilgrimage to what they believe is her grave.

Did they tell you where the sight was?

 

[GaryTaylor]

in islamic theology , Adam repented for his action after his fall and Allah forgave him and provided him the means of living on the earth for a limited amount of time until, they can be joined with him again in the hearafter. And thus started the test for mankind.

so as he test Adam and Eve in the beginning and they failed in the test by listenning to satan

all of us are now in the same test , so we try to not fail like Adam (pbuh) by listenning to satan

so everyone is responsible on his own choice , the only difference is that Adam and Eve were the first of people were tested outside the earth , they didn’t recognized the enemity of satan to them while we are tested in earth and knows his enemity for us

in few words we dont see earth as a punishment but a test for humanity

Punishment test, no, not sure many people in general think this. Catholics view this as a passing realm of eternal life. Soul subjected to matter, which pleasure in one way or another becomes the source of vice. Due to the inclination to sin which only Gods Grace can resolve, never completely on earth though.

Catholic’s see themselves as wayfarers, pilgrims here, seeking Gods Kingdom. Realistic, the time we spend here is very short, though as a youth or young adult it appears different and it is, because one is new here, young, ones own mortality is often taken for granted in this period also.

So the Free-Will is pretty much similiar. Have you heard of this burial sight of the BVM? Do all areas of Islam view her basically the same.

elwill, so everyone in Islam has to enter hell before paradise? So all the sin they partake in here on earth is judged their? Or is there a some other purpose of this. How does one in Islam have there sin forgiven on earth? You know minor, not major transgression.

This is also true for the prophets and BVM-hell? When you say they “are” sinless, this is for their course of life “on earth” in Islam?

Peace

 

[camel12]

I do not know if they were Ahmadis.
At this website,Univ. Dayton, there is a
description of Mary’s shrine/grave.
<http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/resources/marianshrine(name removed by moderator)akistan.htm>

 

[mangy_dog]

I’m probably the only one who didn’t know this but I just found out that Muslins hold Mary in high regard also, but there is even a book in the Quran named after her. There is no Joseph though,
she was immaculately conceived and conceived Jesus by God breathing into her, and she was living at the Temple and when she was ready to give birth she went into the dessert alone, and under a Palm tree she gave birth. She then went back into town and she stood mute, as she thought they would punish her, but baby Jesus performed his first miracle and spoke. Anyway they honor Mary and hold her in high esteem.

Do any Mulins here honor the BVM? Here is a video about Muslin women and Mary.

youtube.com/watch?v=RTMqDpXLvII&feature=related

Everything up until the palm in the desert and coming back mute because she thought yada, yada , yada …)

It is an example of how Islam took from Christianity and put it’s own pagan twist on it. This is a historical trend in Islam.

They do however, hold her in high esteem. It is no wonder that the Theotokos is depicted as standing on the “crescent moon”…reminiscent of Islam. She will dominate in the end times we live in and will bring many muslims to conversion into catholicism.

 

[JillianRose]

Hello Peeps!!

I just wanted to ask why does the topic Mary/Maryum and Jesus in the Quran really matter ? I mean their is only one true way to life. Jesus did not teach us to deny Him by saying He is worshiped by Muslims and Jews and any other false religion of the “world”. There is only ONE Way, Truth and Life and it is not through the Allah of the Quran. The Quran teaches they have a God of Good and Evil. We do not teach that. Therefore how can it be the same God? I pray that all come to know Jesus Christ. I could not imagine being in this world without the love of Jesus Christ.

Love,

Jill

P.S. In the Quran they talk about OUR Jesus as a prophet. ** He is the Messiah**. It is obvious that the Muslims understanding about God is NOT the same as Christians. I understand we are all under the same AUTHORITY. (Which is different then saying we worship the same God)

 

[perro_sarnoso]

Again, this is not completely accurate.

We cannot compromise on the truth of the One, True Lord and God of all. Jesus Christ is true God and true man. He is the image of the Father- one in being with the Father.

He who does not have the Father does not have the Son and vice versa. So, we do not praise and worship the same God.

Muslims don’t know the Father because they don’t know the Son. Our poor muslim brothers and sisters don’t even know the right prophet of the most high…St. John the Baptist.

There are no easy questions/answers or solutions when it comes to Isalm.

 

[Luvtosew]

Hello Peeps!!

I just wanted to ask why does the topic Mary/Maryum and Jesus in the Quran really matter ? I mean their is only one true way to life. Jesus did not teach us to deny Him by saying He is worshiped by Muslims and Jews and any other false religion of the “world”. There is only ONE Way, Truth and Life and it is not through the Allah of the Quran. The Quran teaches they have a God of Good and Evil. We do not teach that. Therefore how can it be the same God? I pray that all come to know Jesus Christ. I could not imagine being in this world without the love of Jesus Christ.

Love,

Jill

P.S. In the Quran they talk about OUR Jesus as a prophet. ** He is the Messiah**. It is obvious that the Muslims understanding about God is NOT the same as Christians. I understand we are all under the same AUTHORITY. (Which is different then saying we worship the same God)

Your right, not the same God.

 

[Trebor135]

Again, this is not completely accurate.

We cannot compromise on the truth of the One, True Lord and God of all. Jesus Christ is true God and true man. He is the image of the Father- one in being with the Father.

He who does not have the Father does not have the Son and vice versa. So, we do not praise and worship the same God.

Muslims don’t know the Father because they don’t know the Son. Our poor muslim brothers and sisters don’t even know the right prophet of the most high…St. John the Baptist.

There are no easy questions/answers or solutions when it comes to Isalm.

But all this raises a sticky question: who have the Jewish people been worshipping for the past two thousand years, since the incarnation and resurrection of Christ?

If we say the same God as Christians, we would be employing a double standard were we then to add that Muslims worship a different God: both groups deny the trinity and the divinity of Christ.

And if we say a different god from Christians, then we will be promptly and helplessly falling into the clutches of Marcionism, the second-century heresy according to which the Old Testament was inspired by the demiurge, a malevolent being, while the New Testament was inspired by the true God, a benevolent being.

 

[Luvtosew]

Well the Jewish people worship the same Father , but Muslins from what I’ve read worship Allah, the sun god, a higher God, and one the Arabs worshiped before Muhammed, the Arabs had over 300 Gods they worshiped in Mecca I’ve read, now whose knows what one reads anymore,hard to trust anyone writing really.

 

[Trebor135]

Well the Jewish people worship the same Father , but Muslins from what I’ve read worship Allah, the sun god, a higher God, and one the Arabs worshiped before Muhammed, the Arabs had over 300 Gods they worshiped in Mecca I’ve read, now whose knows what one reads anymore,hard to trust anyone writing really.

But Muslims claim to worship the same God as do Jews and Christians. They might use the same term, Allah, for the deity they worship as the Arabian pagans employed to describe the highest deity in their pantheon. By the same logic, however, English speakers should eschew the term God as well to describe he who came down from heaven and saves us from our sins, given that pagans probably referred to the beings they worshipped with the same lexical item.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well Judaism “always” arrives somewhere along in this debate. God of Abraham is the claim.

Only one God for certain.

Issue arrives when we are imperfectly worshipping God the Father. Course all claim thats a two-way street.

My concern comes here…

google.com/url?q=http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/allah_best_deceiver.htm&sa=U&ei=QMbDT-2TFeq_6AHdzczYCg&ved=0CBIQFjAA&sig2=KUPsCyMR_ADRbKfrnIep1Q&usg=AFQjCNEZehgvMjUpq_n_SdfI9YH-wg3spA

Can’t wrap my mind around this by Judaism/Christianity. Not to be disrespectful, may be a perfectly logical explaination.

Then of course my next thought would reside here…

google.com/url?q=http://pedestrianinfidel.blogspot.com/2005/09/axis-of-islam-verses-of-hate.html&sa=U&ei=TMfDT9fYDubh0QGGtZTJCg&ved=0CBEQFjAA&sig2=_54qi4ykYGHRdtPEe3PGbw&usg=AFQjCNHKliMyY25_r0BnKmLFQ32lT1Re4A

Prayers for the world go out.

 

[Luvtosew]

I"m sorry I mean moom god, don’t know why I said sun. there is so much on the net about it.

biblebelievers.org.au/islam.htm

 

[Luvtosew]

Well there are pleanty of other sites about it all over the net. I’m a Christian and not a Muslin so I believe Mary is the mother of Jesus and Jesus is our Lord and Saviour, I just never knew Muslins had their own story of Mary, which is well different than ours , thats for sure. I still say we do not pray to the same God as Muslins.

 

[Luvtosew]

I used the first site that came up, and yes I read many sites. Of course I disagree with the Churches view of Muslins, as I do not think they believe in the same God. I have not read the Quran, so I have no ideas of what truths they believe in. I don’t believe they have anything in common with Christianity.

 

[Reuben_J]

… I don’t believe they have anything in common with Christianity.

We have a lot in common with them especially in the aspect of holiness. What bothers me more is the claim that we are the same in areas whereby we are not, actually. One example is God is love. A Muslim poster here posted that like Christianity, Islam also believes that God is love, that Islam is love. It then boils down to each definition on what love is. When I reiterated on what we mean by love, he did not come back for obviously Islamic Allah does not love like Jesus or God of Christianity does.

“The simplest way for a Christian to know what God’s love is, is to see how Jesus loved.

This love is unconditional love and self-giving. Jesus died because of his love for humans, he gave his own life for the benefit of humans. Well, at least that is the Christian belief. **This love is a love for the enemy; it is a love that is to give the other cheek; it is a love that does not take revenge no matter how much we want to. It is a love that says when we are offended that the offender does not know what they are doing.

In other word that love is called Agape in Greek. You will note that the Greeks have about four majors way in categorizing different types of love - Agape, Eros, Philia and Storge.** From my previous discussion with Muslims, they do not believe in Agape love. They are more practical and that there is a limit in how one loves.

A father’s love for his child has no limit. No matter how bad a child is, a father still loves him. Similarly for God. God does not hate and this attribute of God is not found in Islam for there is a situation where Allah of Islam hates”.

 

[Luvtosew]

We have a lot in common with them especially in the aspect of holiness. What bothers me more is the claim that we are the same in areas whereby we are not, actually. One example is God is love. A Muslim poster here posted that like Christianity, Islam also believes that God is love, that Islam is love. It then boils down to each definition on what love is. When I reiterated on what we mean by love, he did not come back for obviously Islamic Allah does not love like Jesus or God of Christianity does.

Good post. Yes our God all all love.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Islam also believes that God is love, that Islam is love. It then boils down to each definition on what love is. When I reiterated on what we mean by love, he did not come back for obviously Islamic Allah does not love like Jesus or God of Christianity does.

Right, also my basic concern. This usually evolves into “there are good muslims” I know this also. Difficult situation in the middle east.

 

[JillianRose]

First let me say, you guys so rock. I have learned so much from you already. They only thing I can say is, from something I found in the Bible. So here is what I respectfully can tell you. I am just going to post exactly what the Bible say and you make up your own mind.

Isaiah 44:6
"This is what the LORD says-- Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

John 14:7(Jesus speaking to the disciples)
"If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

Once again, if you deny the Trinity, you are NOT worshipping the same God. Also, with regard to the Holy Spirit, Pentecost would mean NOTHING to the practicing Jews and Muslims and any other religion that denys the Trinitarian God we worship. If Jesus is not the Messiah, then Him sending the “Helper” (Holy Spirit)(John 14:15-31 and 16:5-15) means nothing. Just because Jews and Muslims believe Jesus (and Abraham as well) existed, doesn’t meant they are worshipping the True God. That is ridiculous. Paul talks about this in Romans (4) as well as his letters to the Galatians. And Christ is always telling the Pharisees and Sadducees that just because they are circumcised doesn’t mean they are saved.

Islam rejects the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God, that he was ever crucified or resurrected, or that he ever atoned for the sins of mankind. The Quran says that Jesus himself never claimed any of these things, and it furthermore indicates that Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity at the Last Judgment, and God will vindicate him.

It’s pretty obvious that Muslims do not worship the same God if this is what the Quran says. All of these “truths” about Christ that the Muslims believe can be refuted by reading Christ’s own words in the Bible, “I Am the RESURRECTION and the Life.” and various other verses… being as Jesus while on the cross said seven phrases, I think it’s safe to say He was crucified and acknowledged His Crucifixion…See verse above regarding Trinity … regarding atonement for sins, oh for crying out loud, they need to read the New Testament, as well as the Old. That’s the entire theme of the Bible!

Also, it says in the Quran they have a God of Good and Evil. We don’t believe that. There are “good” muslims. The nation of Islam calls them Moderates. With that said, we know there are good and bad people of many faiths and good and bad people of no faiths. The major point and this is the truth, we do not have a Bible that condones fanatical behavior. When Christians when to war it was defending their faith. It was not killing people because they did not want to convert.

Like FOREST GUMP SAYS “THATS ALL I GOT TO SAY ABOUT THAT” lol

Good nite!! Busy week at the kids school!! Looking foward to your feed back.!!