Muslins and the BVM

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Trebor135 said:
If all children are born in a state of fitra, then why did God have to prevent Satan from harming `Isa and Maryam at birth?
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may be it was a request of the prayer of mary’s mother
“I command **her and her offspring **to be protected from Satan, the rejected.” 3/36
 
GaryTaylor said:
God condemns “No-One” man condemns himself by refusing “Grace”. God gives man the Free-Will to chose His Grace, to partake in eternal life. Man chose’s to make their God this physical realm thus reject in Free-Will Grace by the inclination to sin, which can only be reduced by Grace.

Satan cannot touch purity, purity must “cooperate” with evil for this to occur, thus the temptation in the Garden, thus the trangression in Free-Will.

The Inclination to Sin exists, or we would simply have an example in Islam to show us otherwise. Can Mohammad claim this?

How about Jesus and Mary, where are their sins recorded?
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i agree that inclination to sin exists in humanity

and thier’s no sins recorded for prophets of God in our book , we believe that prophets of God are the purest of this world
 
As far as I am concerned, there should be no objection to using muslin do dress the Blessed Virgin Mary. The simple girl that she was probably never had the brocades and damasks she is dressed in in many statues and paintings.

No problem with muslin for me.
 
elwill said:
may be it was a request of the prayer of mary’s mother
“I command **her and her offspring **to be protected from Satan, the rejected.” 3/36
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Either elwill does not mean this or he is wrong. This certainly contradicts Islam. How can a human commands and Allah obeys it?
 
One of the conceits of the over educated is that they love to correct spelling, grammar, diction, etc. In fact the idea of a grammar school, where people go to learn to speak and write according to the dictates of grammarians is, at least in English, a fairly new concept, say 300 years or so.

Grammar is the province of those who, lacking a remunerative education, sit in judgement over those who do not, and write deliberated sentences like this one.
GaryTaylor said:
And to think I almost corrected your spelling. 😉
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How does one know when they are over-educated? Who’s the one who determines this? 🤷😛 Assuming again, I was under the impression school was never out. :confused:

A joke btw… And I thought muslin was a new radical group of jihadists on the current “watch” list. :confused: So much for assuming. Learn something new everyday.

Peace
 
Returning, in a round about way to the subject of Islam, we see that grammar was an early science in the Islamic world. Because the Qur’an was produced in Arabic, it became important to codify the Arabic of the Qur’an. When God speaks in a particular language, it is important to not mess with it. Amazingly, today, as I write, Arabic newspapers are being written in the exact same language as that of the Qur’an. Of course there are new words and new ways of saying things, but the grammar is essentially the same. Such is the influence of grammar in the Islamic world.

This is a famous story of Mulla Nasrud-din, sort of a Buster Keaton character in Sufi Literature, where a grammarian is being lampooned:

To support himself, Nasrudin took a job rowing a ferry across a particularly dangerous river.
One day a famous grammarian came to him for help across the river.
The water was higher and more dangerous than usual.
“T’ain’t been this bad since before I ever was here abouts!” said the Mullah.
The grammarian bristled at Nasrudin’s bad speech. “My good man, have you never learned grammar? Half of your life has been wasted!”
A little later Nasrudin asked his passenger, “C’n you swim?”
“No. Why?”
“Because all of your life has been wasted! The boat is sinking.”

(Of course the ungrammatical English had to be created by the translator.)
GaryTaylor said:
How does one know when they are over-educated? Who’s the one who determines this? 🤷😛 Assuming again, I was under the impression school was never out. :confused:

A joke btw… And I thought muslin was a new radical group of jihadists on the current “watch” list. :confused: So much for assuming. Learn something new everyday.

Peace
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Luvtosew said:
Interesting, Where is the garden?

Are we talking the sin nature? by original sin do you mean a sin already in us when born. I know were born with a sin nature, but I’m not sure if that is what is meant by original sin.
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Who were you addressing in this post? 🙂
 
elwill said:
some scholars says that satan never leaves his enemy without harming it
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You’ve said that children are born in a state of fitra and become corrupted when they grow up. But now you cite scholars who teach that Satan causes us harm even right after we are born. Am I understanding you correctly? These two ideas do not make sense together.
God will condemns us for our behaviours and our seeds .
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Agreed.
the children remain innocent because they didn’t yet make a sin , touching of satan for them isn’t a sin of a baby
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But does Satan touching a baby really have no impact on the child?

And if Satan does not corrupt each child at birth, why did God see it as necessary to prevent the Devil from touching just two people in history–`Isa and Maryam? There must be a connection between a person being sinful and Satan touching him/her when a day old.
 
elwill said:
well , i can say that i understood your view of this concept

you consider that God punished all humanity by giving them the choice to believe or didsbelieve through theire life in earth becasue of sin of adam
without sin of adam , all of humanity now should be birthed in heaven directly , is that your concept for the original sin ?
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We still suffer the consequences that followed the choices made by Adam and Eve.

But in Islamic theology, is there an explanation for why humanity has not been allowed to enter paradise? No one alive today is responsible at all for what Adam and Eve did.
 
My Pakistani friends have told me of Muslim women’s devotion to Mary, mother of a great prophet. They pilgrimage to what they believe is her grave. One of these women was educated in a catholic convent in Kurachi and was anxious to attend a TLM - but it was not available at the time…
 
Reuben_J said:
Either elwill does not mean this or he is wrong. This certainly contradicts Islam. How can a human commands and Allah obeys it?
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the problem is with translation i think
in arabic context " it’s prayer for God not commands him "

Yusuf ali used " commend" instead of " command" in his translation
and I commend her and her offspring into Thy protection from the accursed Shaitan.

so may be i just typed it wrongly
 
let us discuss it in more details

Abu Hurairah narrated: I heard the Messenger of Allah saying:

No son of Adam shall be born unless that he should be afflicted (touched) by the Satan at the hour of birth, when he initiates his life crying out of the Satan’s touch, except Maryam and her son.

this is hadith not quran
and it say that only two were protected from touching by satan at hour of birth
so if you want to interpret it to mean that they are sinless , it’s okey but the hadeeth in the fact dosn’t say that clearly or directly
the hadeth is talking about crying of babys in the hour of birth because of satan and that only mary and jesus peace be upon them were not touched by satan in the hour of birth

secondly , what was said in the quran exactly in the tonque of mary’s mother

O my Lord!.. I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected. (Aal-e-Imran, 3/36)

here the mother pray for her daughter to be protected from satan , to be devout and rightious woman through her life

whatever from the hadeeth i can conclude that God gave her more than her intensions , he protected her chid from satan physically (in the hour of birth) and spritually through her life

i hope if you still confused , keep in contact
 
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