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Sarcelle
Guest
You can fight for human rights.
No need to call yourself a feminist.
No need to call yourself a feminist.
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Willing_Spirit
Active member
All I’m saying is that just because research shows women are paid less than men on average when they have the same job title, doesn’t necessarily mean that sexism is the cause.
Edit: I should probably clarify that I’m speaking from an American perspective. I’m sure there is legitimate concern to be had for income inequality in other countries.
Edit: I should probably clarify that I’m speaking from an American perspective. I’m sure there is legitimate concern to be had for income inequality in other countries.
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blackforest
Well-known member
Nobody has to be anything.
We live in a very simplistic culture that loves labels. I advise you to look beyond the labels and instead look to individual issues affecting women and girls.
I believe that women trapped in prostitution should be able to get out of it.
I believe that no woman should be sterilized against her will.
I believe that every reasonable step should be taken to reunite formerly incarcerated women with their children.
I believe that pregnant women shouldn’t face workforce discrimination, including the pressure to get an abortion.
I believe that men shouldn’t use their positions of power to exploit women sexually.
I believe that women have a fundamental right to feed their babies - any time and anywhere - without facing harassment.
Now you may disagree with me on individual issues. But are you starting to get the picture? You don’t have to support abortion rights or even call yourself a “feminist” in order to support what is right. Beliefs don’t come pre-packaged like Lunchables. Stay true to yourself and your beliefs, and don’t worry about the labels.
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Patri
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Yes I do believe in things you mentioned and for trying to make a difference, but I’d like to fight for anyone in an unjust situation, regardless of their sex. It is true that we have lived in a male dominated world for too long and we still suffer the effects, but I just don’t identify with the angry, screaming women that present themselves as feminists, that try to drown the voice of even the good men we have and not letting them have an opinion on some issues. It feels like we’ve gone from one extreme to the other.
blackforest
Well-known member
I find it interesting that people are “passionate” and “dedicated” when they agree with us and “angry” and “screaming” when they don’t. Stereotypes would be another good thing to chuck into the waste bin, along with the labels.
Not even the most rabid feminist could disagree with you there. Gloria Steinam herself made that case that feminism liberates men as much as women by putting less pressure on men.
That said, “what about men?” in this context reminds me of someone speaking out against abortion only to here, “But what about BORN people?”
You CAN highlight injustices against one group while caring about others.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
This is true, though there are ways to show passion and dediction without angry screaming. Sadly feminists have gained a reputation for screaming because that is what is seen and that screaming is probably one of the big things that is turning so many women today away from feminism, especially many of the younger women. If you see someone angry and screaming more than likely you don’t want to join them, at least ways for very long.
There has been so much that men have lost over the years because of feminism and women’s own search for freedom from the home and family that I can’t even begin to show how much I disagree with Gloria Steinem. She may say it liberates men but the facts and our society certainly show something different.
I agree we can care about many injustices, not just one.
My feeling is that Christianity is the way to fight injustices. It is the only way that includes everyone from conception to death and there is no anger, hatred or screaming involved.
blackforest
Well-known member
The use of passive voice here is interesting. “What is seen” is anecdotal. When you see something anecdotally and apply it to an entire population, it’s a stereotype - and in this case, a rather uncharitable one.
That said, whether or not you consider it “screaming” does not determine whether a point is valid. Accusations of “screaming” are a deflection and red herring.
Christianity teaches the women are made in the image and likeness of God. We unfortunately haven’t always been treated that way, as exemplified in my last post.
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Aquinas11
Guest
which is why only 9% of British women call themselves feminist
Only 7 per cent of Britons consider themselves feminists
More than two thirds of Britons support gender equality – but just seven per cent would call themselves feminists.
www.telegraph.co.uk
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
I am sorry if my comment seemed or soundned uncharitable. I did not mean for it to be. I used to be a feminist. I had been in that camp and experienced and seen the screaming for many years. I used to scream myself along with them. I will grant you that not all women who are feminists are yelling and screaming but I know from experience that it is encouraged to speak out and scream out loudly.
I also, having been in that camp and do still work with many women in the feminist camp, know what much of the agenda is and that is why since returning to the Church I have rejected most everything feminism stands for.
I agree that women have not always been treated as they should be but Christianity, Jesus, is the solution for the mistreatment. His ways, not the world’s ways will be what will bring healing.
God bless.
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Aquinas11
Guest
There may be a “gender gap” but its hardly equivalent to gap between murder victim/murder survivor
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Aquinas11
Guest
Excellent discussion on whether feminism is consistent with Church teaching
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
I agree. I have listened to this talk with Trent Horn and Timothy Gordon and thought Timothy Gordon did an excellent job and made very good points.
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LilyM
Guest
But why should those of us who are acutely aware of womens issues NOT call ourselves feminist? I for one want the world to know that not all feminists support abortion, gay marriage etc. I want to take back.the word ‘feminist’.
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Patri
Guest
I have actually been put off by certain ways of speaking in defence of women. Regarding screaming, maybe listen to Busy Phillips speech for women and abortion.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
Agreed. Unfortunately I saw and heard that speech. These are the women who are speaking for feminism. These are the women who are showing the ugly side of feminism.
blackforest
Well-known member
Amen to this! We don’t have to cower in a corner just because someone else is trying to impose a different dogma.
I think that women murdered in situations of domestic violence represent a little more than just a “gender gap.” Their lives are as important and meaningful as those of unborn babies.
I’m sorry you’re letting anecdotal accounts of screaming get in the way of advocating for a more just world for women.
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Aquinas11
Guest
I didn’t realize 42 million women are being murdered annually from domestic violence
Men are victims of domestic violence at equal rates as women
Domestic Violence Against Men: No Laughing Matter
Surveys indicate that men are victims of intimate partner violence at equal rates as women. However, there are few services or supports for these victimized men.
www.google.com
Just last week a woman locked her husband in suitcase and let him suffocate to death
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/02/26/woman-accused-of-zipping-boyfriend-inside-suitcase-and-leaving-him-to-die-inside/%3FoutputType=amp
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Allegra
Guest
Saying that a woman must be something seems somewhat antifeminist.
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Sarcelle
Guest
You may call yourself a feminist but the question is “Must every woman be a feminist?”
One should have the choice right?
One should have the choice right?
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LilyM
Guest
Dv is an area I work in. I have no doubt men suffer from dv as much as women and that they are woefully underrrsourced in terma of thinga like shelters.blackforest:
I didn’t realize 42 million women are being murdered annually from domestic violence
Men are victims of domestic violence at equal rates as women
Domestic Violence Against Men: No Laughing Matter | Psychology Today
Just last week a woman locked her husband in suitcase and let him suffocate to death
Redirect Notice
Without wishing to diminish that at all, women are statistically more likely to suffer the ultimate form of dv in terms of actually being murdered by spouses or partners. Where I live (not the US) at least one woman a week is so murdered. Many such cases would not even make the news, unlike your male victim.
Safety and wellbeing are at stake for all victims of dv. But disproportionately for women, so are their very lives. Hence, unfortunately, the emphasis on women as victims.
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