Must every woman be a feminist?

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Laws that allow women to work
Preventing women from working
Women had jobs and worked long before the feminist movement.

All women, a good majority, do not see the full time working woman, two income family, or man at home woman out of the home situations as a good thing.

Women are bucking back against the feminist movement today due to realizing what has been lost-their families.

They see feminism, have found feminism, to be a burden, and to have caused a greater burden on women, and not a gift.

The fruits of this push to get women out of the home, away from their families is being seen and it is not good.
 
Perhaps it wouldn’t be necessary for both spouses to work full time if taxes weren’t so doggone high, or if the tax code was more fair. These days, it’s often necessary for both spouses/parents to work just to make ends meet and be able to support their families.

Have the recent changes in the tax laws eliminated the marriage penalty? If not, it needs to go. One of the most unfair aspects of our tax law is penalizing couples who marry. It should be the opposite. Married couples should receive tax relief, not an extra tax burden.

It’s super-expensive today to raise a family. And while spouses/parents should try to be as financially responsible as possible, it’s a lot harder to get by today than it used to be in previous times.

So, we really can’t blame couples if both have to work outside of the home, just to support their families. What we need to do is change some of the burdensome conditions that make it necessary.
 
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Lea101:
Laws that allow women to work
Preventing women from working
Women had jobs and worked long before the feminist movement.

All women, a good majority, do not see the full time working woman, two income family, or man at home woman out of the home situations as a good thing.

Women are bucking back against the feminist movement today due to realizing what has been lost-their families.

They see feminism, have found feminism, to be a burden, and to have caused a greater burden on women, and not a gift.

The fruits of this push to get women out of the home, away from their families is being seen and it is not good.
Women had jobs and worked - but usually for a fraction of the wages of the menfolk, often forced to quit work if they married or had children (never mind if the job was required to support said husband and kids), and often in a very limited selection of vocations.

Lest you think this was in the “bad old days”, my mother was a medical doctor in the 1970s and was barraged with comments like “oh, isn’t your husband nice to let you work” or (when buying a car - in the 1990s - at a time she actually earned more than my father) “does your husband know you’re buying this?” .

She was forced to conceal her pregnancy from her interviewers when she went for a job interview, although her new job was only due to start well after her child was due, and she had plenty of support to raise the child. As a youngster I had comments when I told schoolmates that my mother was a medical doctor including “your mother can’t be a doctor, she must be a nurse”.

My mother and her mother before her were both educated and worked outside the home while raising children. With the full support of their husbands. The fruit in both cases has been reasonably productive, happy and well-adjusted children.
 
They dont but it is going against the grain to not. Culture plays a part. Nurture matters. I was raised sort of feminist, being raised by a single hard working mother. Although she dated so much, never married, but is now engaged Praise God, I think she had the attitude ya dont need a man. From there, I had relationship after relationship ending in disaster. Sadly I took advantage of men and any weakness they had. Today, Knowing my role as a woman and the richness of marriage, I am happy to be letting the feminist in me die. I love to be a woman and embrace femininity. I love to be able to not have all the answers, and trust my husband with decisions. Thank God I dont have to be the leader and biggest protector of this family.
 
I think most women are not fully feminist or fully anti feminist…
Anyway I dont judge women its hard to be one.
We should support women who share Jesus
 
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but usually for a fraction of the wages of the menfolk, often forced to quit work if they married or had children (never mind if the job was required to support said husband and kids), and often in a very limited selection of vocations…
worked outside the home while raising children.
So, I realize that reasoning “we can work out of the home now” benefit because of feminism is meant to make me and those who reject feminism feel grateful to the feminist movement but it doesn’t. It is quite the opposite. In all charity, when I hear it, it only makes it worse.

See, alot of women today that work out of the home, do so not because they want to but because they have to. Two incomes are needed now to support the family, huge houses, more than two cars and pay the high cost of day care so both can work.

and then on top of that, women who choose to be at home, whether they have kids or not, are frowned on by feminists any many times their husbands…because the feminist movement has brought women into the work force, women now are expected to be in the work force, even if caring for their home is their greatest desire and calling and they are in a good spot financially. Sometimes women just want to care for their home and family.

Then also, I see alot of women today who are hungry for a day off to be with their kids, or take them to the doctor or the park or not have to get up at 5 am to clean their home before going to work or wait to clean their house in 3 months when their turn comes around on the neighborhood cleaning rotation or cook supper in something other than a crockpot. Maybe they would like to just take their own selfs to the doctor or the park.

So, I’m sorry but in all charity, the career benefit doesn’t sound like a benefit to me. Not with the divorce rate where it is, abortion rates sky high so women can have their careers, young children left alone at home looking at indecency on the internet, marriage confusion the way it is, and very tired, stressed women.

No full time careers doesn’t sound like a benefit to me or to all women.

God bless

P.S. I won’t link it, but google “Elizabeth Jean Busy Philips goes off on women’s rights”.
 
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There are ways to circumvent this.
I work part time training men in sales.
My husband works from home those days
I would be affronted that I get less pay then a man

My first job is a mom and wife
I prayed fervently about this and God in His glory allows me to be home 5 days a week.

So not a feminist believe me but someone who God called to help with family finances.
 
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Women had jobs and worked - but usually for a fraction of the wages of the menfolk
“Fraction” implies a small fraction. In the 60’s Australian public service wages for women were, if I recall, at least 50%, and I think possibly higher. My mother was also a doctor (qualified in the late 50’s) and went into private practice on account of this, and in private practice she just charged the AMA recommended rates, which weren’t gender based.

I’ve known other women doctors from this era, and they tell similar stories. I’ve also learned that doctors, as a group, are not any more sensible or reliable on social issues than the general population. They tend to be workaholics and also extremely conscious of peer-group status and money. They also tend to adopt “fashionable” causes, such as feminism, LGBT rights, etc. because they are too tired and busy to think through complex issues. They love to tell stories about themselves.

My mother has told me about career advice she had received once in the '50s to not go into physics as that was “not suitable for a woman”. She told me this in the context of complaining about “sexism” in years past. I asked her whether, apart from this optional advice, there was any actual discrimination preventing her from going into physics in the late '50’s, as a women and with a government scholarship, and she admitted there wasn’t. Yet we allow rampant actual discrimination against men in academia these days.

A particularly daft female doctor relative of mine (paediatrician) rails about the “wage gap”, insisting that women are paid much less than men for the same job, even though this has been illegal for decades and also, for decades, wage parity has been scrupulously observed by industry. Even the Australian government feminist bodies admit that unequal pay in like-for-like jobs almost never happens - yet feminists, such as this 70 year old doctor, regularly promote the myth that it does.
 
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She was forced to conceal her pregnancy from her interviewers when she went for a job interview, although her new job was only due to start well after her child was due, and she had plenty of support to raise the child.
In previous years, employers were permitted to discriminate on any grounds they chose. Protestants were free to not hire Catholics, and vice-versa. A company could also discrimate against a man who wanted to do “women’s work”, such as nursing or fashion. Companies were also free to consider a candidate’s personal circumstances in taking on a risk. When I was a single dad I was acutely conscious of having to persuade a potential employer that my personal issues wouldn’t get in the way of work. One could argue that a company can do what they want with their own money, but society has decided otherwise - but there’s no point in morally judging the past by current standards.

Traditional gender roles often favoured women, but feminists block that out of their histories to paint a one-sided story of oppression. . . .
 
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Why is this an issue and judgement?
A militant feminist is rare. A militant anti feminist is rare.

Catholicism is based on love of Christ.

Katie
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Catherine of Sienna…
 
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Women had jobs and worked long before the feminist movement.
This is an oversimplified movement. Do you genuinely think the laws that passed were all unnecessary? That they were being treated fairly? Or that they could have been easily hired based on their merit? Have you seen the type of jobs these women worked?
All women, a good majority, do not see the full time working woman, two income family, or man at home woman out of the home situations as a good thing.
Assuming that you meant mother and father instead of man/woman, it depends if they’re raising children adequately or not. I’m from an era where most of us were raised by working parents, and some families know how to do it better than others. Likewise, some SAHMs know how to do it better than other SAHMs.

Freedom comes at a cost. I would rather live in a society where women and men can are free to choose if they want to work or stay at home.

It doesn’t mean that both choices will be equally easy to fulfil, but it means that you can if you want to. As opposed to in the past where women were raised to be wives as that’s in their own best economic interest, and that they shouldn’t bother fulfilling their ambitions if they desire children (even if they didn’t, they will still experience hardships being a woman in a male dominated field).
They see feminism, have found feminism, to be a burden, and to have caused a greater burden on women, and not a gift.
Frankly speaking, that’s because of their choices to make. Conservative women who vote and own property and have their own bank accounts are benefitting from the progress made. They’re not harmed because they know what they want and they know what choices are good for them.

In 2020, if you’re find yourself in Wallstreet but finally realised you wanted to be a SAHM, that’s on you and your lack of ability to figure it out. Of course there’s some empathy, but individual responsibility is needed. Likewise, if you find yourself at home all day in the suburbs and you finally realised you always wanted to work as a lawyer…that’s on you too.

I know that seemed harsh but we do have the freedom (now) to decide.
 
and then on top of that, women who choose to be at home, whether they have kids or not, are frowned on by feminists any many times their husbands…because the feminist movement has brought women into the work force, women now are expected to be in the work force,
But don’t you see how I can flip this around to suit my point?

Ambitious women back then were expected to stay at home and serve their husbands and children. If they managed to find a job, they are often mocked as well. Their femininity gets called into question.

Not everyone wants to be SAHMs, not everyone wants to work 49582 hours a week. Most women want a little of both, where they’re free to pursue their career yet have time for kids. Of course, you can’t have it all…so you’ll see people regretting one for the other.

Also, feminism did have some positive social impacts. Gender roles are more relaxed now. A woman in an office today genuinely isn’t treated as badly as she would be in the 50s.

A stay at home dad isn’t going to be treated as poorly today either. Of course, this doesn’t mean that he’s treated equally as a SAHM. But we can acknowledge more people today are more accepting of this.

But the bottom line is: Freedom is more important. Even if I wanted to be a SAHM (which I admit, tends to appear whenever my uni deadlines are piling up, lol), I would rather be one in 2020 than to be one in my grandmother’s era.

Dismissing the whole movement because the social norm is not what you want is pretty silly, IMHO. Especially when the movement has ensured the political/economic aspects of equality.

Especially when the average man and woman really don’t care about whether you’re a SAHM or a working mother. You will see this type of judgement only if your circle is somehow very conservative or very liberal.

I think today’s political climate makes everyone want to victimise themselves and see the world as more polarised than it actually is. I fell for it once. Most people genuinely don’t care, I’ve come to learn.
 
Traditional gender roles often favoured women, but feminists block that out of their histories to paint a one-sided story of oppression.
I think you dismissed an oversimplified perspective for another oversimplified one.

Gender roles were honestly more complicated than you and I both know. It’s more than women sitting pretty at home while men die, or men controlling everyone while women die.

I’ve read accounts of gender roles/norms in the past, from people’s own personal experiences to textbooks/research articles. I would rather extract my teeth than to be a woman or a man back then.

It’s easier to filter out the other sex’s struggles and focus on your own, but doing that gives you tunnel vision.

Both men and women have their own set of struggles and privileges due to traditional gender roles.

And hence, we should have more progressive ones, where both sexes are more or less treated equally in the public sphere (according to science/reason and not opinions) and that people are free to adopt norms and roles in their own personal lives.

Hopefully that’s something everyone can come to agreement, instead of romanticising the past or present.
 
I know that seemed harsh but we do have the freedom (now) to decide.
It’s not harsh at all to me because in all charity I have heard feminists say all this before and I used to make similar arguments myself. I have just come to realize that freedom to have that career came at a very high cost and continues to do so; lives and families. So I just disagree with that argument.
Ambitious women back then were expected to stay at home and serve their husbands and children
As Christians we are called to serve. More importantly, though they were called to love their husbands and children. The same as husbands are called to love and serve. Loving is serving. We follow the great server.
Not everyone wants to be SAHMs,
Children have a right to their parents and a home. That is a mother’s first responsibility.
Most women want a little of both, where they’re free to pursue their career yet have time for kids
I get many women have part time jobs and do fine putting their home first. I have a part time job myself. That is not the typical feminist thought though and not what feminism is about.
Feminists ideology puts career first, home and family comes second, which is one of the main reasons the abortion rate is so high, and a multitude of other problems on the rise.
Also, feminism did have some positive social impacts. Gender roles are more relaxed now.
We will also have to agree to disagree here. I do not see this as a positive at all but something that has caused our youth so many problems.

We’re not talking about romanticizing the past but restoring a good that has been trashed.

So my point is, the things feminism tries to convince women are good, are not.
 
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It’s more than women sitting pretty at home while men die, or
That’s a problem thought right there. Caring for your family and home is a job. Women didn’t just sit around looking pretty.
 
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I will probably anger you but here goes.

I am not married and have no intentions of doing so anytime soon.

I am grateful that I do have the choice to not get married and be able to have a good paying engineering job. In the past women had to get married in order to not starve since a lot of jobs were basically closed off to women and those that were available didn’t pay well.

I am grateful to be able to study science and not be told that science was for men. My mother wanted to be a doctor but was told to aim to be a receptionist instead. Much more feminine.

In parts of the world women are still denied agency and forced to get married very young to much older men.

See the custom of bride kidnapping in Central Asia.

I disagree with feminism regarding abortion but I acknowledge that it has also done a lot of good. It has acknowledged that women do not have to be wives and mothers in order to have worth.
 
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Traditional gender roles often favoured women, but feminists block that out of their histories to paint a one-sided story of oppression.
When I started working in the late 1970’s, I worked in a goverment office. Do you know there was an official rule in place that women employees were not allowed to wear pants to the office? It was actually grounds for termination, if they did. Just imagine the other discrimanotry things that were in place that we had to put up with at that time. The list is so long, and we take things for granted today.

We have come a long way, baby. And thank God for that.
 
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