My Bishop's Response to Liturgical Abuse

  • Thread starter Thread starter Crusader
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
After reading this thread - I just thank God that I attend the most orthodox novus ordo - in the most beautiful old cathedral style church with not a thing out of place or out of line…, with the most loving priest and people, I have ever known.
I wish I could bring you all to church with me.
 
40.png
ridesawhitehors:
.
I wish I could bring you all to church with me.
Click to expand...
Me too!!! 😃
 
40.png
ridesawhitehors:
After reading this thread - I just thank God that I attend the most orthodox novus ordo - in the most beautiful old cathedral style church with not a thing out of place or out of line…, with the most loving priest and people, I have ever known.
I wish I could bring you all to church with me.
Click to expand...
You are fortunate indeed. I think 10-20 years from now, most parishes will be like your parish, once all the Woodstock clergy retire.
 
I wonder if the Bishops have a form letter they use? This one sounds an awful lot like the one I received from our bishop - politely telling me to put up & shut up.

I’ve kept copies of all my correspondance with our parish priest & the bishop - it can help to be a little complusive about writing! I think I might send it to Cardinal Arinze.
 
40.png
Bonnie:
I wonder if the Bishops have a form letter they use? This one sounds an awful lot like the one I received from our bishop - politely telling me to put up & shut up.

I’ve kept copies of all my correspondance with our parish priest & the bishop - it can help to be a little complusive about writing! I think I might send it to Cardinal Arinze.
Click to expand...
I don’t know about you, but I was expecting a far more “politically correct” letter. Something with “we are doing our best”, “numerous challanges facing us”, “priest shortage”, etc. etc. Instead a received a snippy retort.

The Mass is the center, source and summit of our faith. My bishop isn’t taking care of some real issues, so maybe I can understand his defensiveness – and/or that of his dissidant “consultors” who may have created this letter for his signature.
 
I don’t know what the abuses were, so it is difficult to know how eggregious they were. I also don’t know who the Bishop is, so I can’t comment on how he replied. But it might do well to bear in mind a comment made by Archbishop, now Cardinal George (no foll, and not exactly a liberal), that he was tired of all the nit picking over liturgical issues.
To make the point another way: According to Emily Post, there is a certain order to place the silverware at a formal dinner. Placing the knife to the far left, then the fork, is improper.
It is also improper to use the bathroom, then return to the dinner table without washing your hands. The latter is a bit more serious than the former.
 
40.png
otm:
I don’t know what the abuses were, so it is difficult to know how eggregious they were. I also don’t know who the Bishop is, so I can’t comment on how he replied. But it might do well to bear in mind a comment made by Archbishop, now Cardinal George (no foll, and not exactly a liberal), that he was tired of all the nit picking over liturgical issues.
To make the point another way: According to Emily Post, there is a certain order to place the silverware at a formal dinner. Placing the knife to the far left, then the fork, is improper.
It is also improper to use the bathroom, then return to the dinner table without washing your hands. The latter is a bit more serious than the former.
Click to expand...
The quality of his response should not depend on how “eggregious” the liturgical abuses are.

It also makes no difference who the bishop is. None. They should all respond in a charitable and pastoral manner.
 
I’m tired of the liberal nonsense, and can’t wait until I’m 40 because by then most of these people will be in old folks homes. The laity is more conservative than some of the clergy.
 
I think on this type of issue we need to spend more time praying and less time acting. I try to start with a 3 to 1 ratio. 3 hours of prayer for 1 hour of action. Then if enough time has been spent in prayer do what I did. Give the priest a gift copy of the GIRM with some really nice bookmarks in some neat places within the GIRM. In addition at that point and every other time you see him ask how you can be of service.

Charity drives satan nuts.
 
40.png
Crusader:
I think 10-20 years from now, most parishes will be like your parish, once all the Woodstock clergy retire.
Click to expand...
Isn’t this a bit unfair to the priests? You could assume, maybe, that their irregularities in the Mass are due to their training, and not to their interior disposition.
 
As hard as it may be, a follow up letter seems to be needed for clarification if nothing else. To be charitable, maybe the bishop misunderstood your tone as well meaning as you may have been. I would suggest writing this new letter in front of the Blessed Sacrament asking for wisdom & charity. You might be dealing with a very tired bishop so will get no where but at least you can come before the Lord knowing that you did what you could. Then be at peace.
 
My archbishop (Keeler) has made no noise on this topic, probably because he has a right nasty CINO politician in the form of Barbara “Barrabas” Mikulski to deal with if he makes a public statement.

Like ridesawhitehors, I also go to a terrific parish (St. John Westminster). We have three holy men leading us, and each of them vie (weekly) for The Best Homilist I Have Ever Heard award. The two I have spoken with have each said that absent a specific instruction from the bishop to the contrary, they would deny the Eucharist to any pro-abort politician.

But I’ve been to plenty of bad churches in the Baltimore area, including changes to the Eucharistic prayer, gender neutral language substitutions, and so on. And it has a clear effect on the parishioners.
 
40.png
wupsie50:
As hard as it may be, a follow up letter seems to be needed for clarification if nothing else. To be charitable, maybe the bishop misunderstood your tone as well meaning as you may have been. I would suggest writing this new letter in front of the Blessed Sacrament asking for wisdom & charity. You might be dealing with a very tired bishop so will get no where but at least you can come before the Lord knowing that you did what you could. Then be at peace.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.

The letter was crafted in order to show zero emotion, zero commentary. Just a concise description of what is taking place today, and a corresponding quote from the GIRM. I took pains not to add my own emotion or opinion.

I’m upset because many of these abuses and irregularities are being introduced now, as the bishop prepares for retirement. The abuses stem largely who a horribly dissident priest from another parish (a diocesan consultor) who has the bishop’s ear.

Thankfully when this bishop retires in 18 months, we won’t receive another former auxilliary bishop from Los Angeles as our bishop, but until then things are going to be quite difficult.
 
40.png
bemmel:
Isn’t this a bit unfair to the priests? You could assume, maybe, that their irregularities in the Mass are due to their training, and not to their interior disposition.
Click to expand...
Nope. Given the importance of the Mass, every priest should know how to properly celebrate it – from either their training or their own reading.
 
40.png
bemmel:
Isn’t this a bit unfair to the priests? You could assume, maybe, that their irregularities in the Mass are due to their training, and not to their interior disposition.
Click to expand...
Not at all. Ignorance is bliss. Anyone who came out of the seminary, whether liberal or not, is not some schoolboy. They have faculties and scholarly studies behind them. Now, certainly we should pray for them, and hope God wakes them up, but I do hold them accountable.

I can understand that a disposition is sometimes hard to battle, especially since one thinks they are correct. But we have tried persuasion for over 40 years and now its time to get vocal and challenge.
 
40.png
ShanMcCatholic:
As a stay at home mommy, you would think that this would be beyond me, but through circumstance I have had to become a one- woman letter-writing campaign for the abuses in our parish.

I have struggled to ask for the grace to not allow the people dancing around to make me angry at Mass, but rather to gain detatchment, and offer this wretchedness back to Jesus through is Sacred Heart in reparation for such offenses that happen during His Holy Sacrifice.

Then I address the issue verbally with my pastor- and when I am laughed at or ridiculed- (why anyone would think only priests or deacons can say the Gospel is such hogwash, isn’t it???), then I write my little letter. After a time, if nothing is done then my letter will go on to the Apostolic Nuncio. I try really hard to discern between those things which are things that are not my preference and things that truly are illicit…

As lay persons we are obligated to keep our clergy accountable-- there’s a rather recent scandal we might want to keep in mind if any of our clergy tell us we have no business trying to correct abuse…

As a side note— it was very, very likely that the Bishop did not read, nor respond to your letter- but rather one of his secretaries, and the Bishop merely signed off on it…

My prayers are with you on this long, lonely road. I pray that you will not lose fervor!!
Click to expand...
Thank you for the wonderful note. It is time to fight for our right to have abuse-free Masses. Our actions must include prayer, but liturgical abuse can no longer be tolerated.

Someone mentioned that the abuses may be a product of ignorance on the part of the celebrant. If that is actually the case, alarm bells should ring until said priest learns how to accurately celebrate the Mass…
 
Because of item 184 in Redemptionis Sacramentum, I’d say - write to the Papal Nuncio (or the Apostolic See) referencing item #184, attaching copies of all the letters you’d previously written AND ccing your bishop.

In other words, let him know that you sent a copy of your letter and his to his boss.

That’s what I’d do, anyway.
–Ann
 
40.png
Crusader:
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.

Thankfully when this bishop retires in 18 months, we won’t receive another former auxilliary bishop from Los Angeles as our bishop, but until then things are going to be quite difficult.
Click to expand...
And more thankfully still it is only 18 months…many of us have been fighting this battle for 40 plus years. Your just getting initiated. Welcome to the life long drudge and slugging it out club. 😃 In time you will learn not to get so upset that it burns you up inside. If nothing else it will cut years off all of our purgatory time. 😉
 
40.png
Crusader:
Thank you for the wonderful note. It is time to fight for our right to have abuse-free Masses. Our actions must include prayer, but liturgical abuse can no longer be tolerated.

Someone mentioned that the abuses may be a product of ignorance on the part of the celebrant. If that is actually the case, alarm bells should ring until said priest learns how to accurately celebrate the Mass…
Click to expand...
The reason I don’t accept the “ignorance” plea- is that #1 we should, I believe always verbally communicate to our priests when we feel something is wrong, giving them a chance to find out ore if they desire. And #2- I am an untrained stay at home- homeschooling mom-- and** I ** know that things are wrong. It is is their job to know. If they were doctors or something like that they would be responsible for keeping up to date in their field, despite their busy over-worked schedules. And if they didn’t keep up to date they could be held as negligent. In a sense they are doctors— for our souls.

I have had two vastly different experiences- First- I had to explain to a newly ordained (less than a year) priest why we couldn’t gather around the altar and hold hands during the Our FAther. Our parish is deeply divided - and he (I’m sure under someone’s suggestion) felt this would be a show of unity. (Which of course is ridiculous- because a few moments after that we are one- in the Eucharist-- we are fully united!!). It was a difficult and awkward few days after that- but we never did that ever again-- and all is happy and good between us ( he calls if me and my kids miss more than one day in a row of daily MAss to make sure we’re all okay!).

Second experience is trying to convince our pastor to preach and/or support Adoration occasionally from the pulpit and to explain that he cannot change the words “This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, Happy are we who are called to His supper.” He changes it every week to something else, and as I talked to him about it - he insisted that it was totally okay to say whatever he wanted-- and has remained steadfast in continuing to do this at every Mass. And clearly stated that Adoration is antiquated and he will not support it in any way other than by allowing it… He has also allowed a bunch of other abuses- but that’s a whole different story!

The reason I relate these two experiences is to illustrate the real problem is not a lack of knowledge- but pride- plain and simple. There is an unwillingness by some to admit that they have been wrong and to submit their preferences in order to be obedient. In one of his dreams, his guide said to St. John Bosco- “You know the root of all sin, right?” When Don Bosco reponded that it was pride- his guide corrected him saying “No- it’s disobedience. Disobedience is the root of all sin.”
 
I can tell I’m a little late to this one, but there is one thing that you can try if all else fails. I heard this one from Fr. Peter Stravinskas. In your collection envelope, instead of money, include a note:

“This envelope would have contained a check for $xx. I’m holding it in escrow until the liturgical abuses stop.”

Granted, you do run the risk of hurting other ministries that the parish is involved in. However, if they aren’t even offering proper worship, the quality of the “other ministries” should be called into question. It’s kinda like that candidate who dissents from the Church on abortion but agrees on “other issues.”

David
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top