My Bishop's Response to Liturgical Abuse

[CatholicGeek]

srkbdk:

I think on this type of issue we need to spend more time praying and less time acting.

Praying for our priests and bishops is probably the first thing and foremost action that we need to take regarding anything with our parish.

I also think that there are two other things that are VERY important to do in these situations:

1. 
   *]Encourage your parish priests and bishops in the good that they do. Our encouragement of them should far exceed our criticism of them. I think that if we encourage them in the good that they do, and in their priestly calling, they will be more receptive to other (name removed by moderator)ut. Too often we (including myself) do not do this.
   
   *]Approach them in a spirit of humility and love. Ask them about the situation, what they think, why they do it, vs. telling them it’s an abuse and immediately quoting Catholic texts to them. Share your understanding of the way it should be done in a loving, non-judgmental way. Then give them time to think, pray and respond.
   
   Just my thoughts. I know that I’ve been approached before pointing out errors in my words/actions, but the way it was presented was not good. It made me defensive, sensing an attack rather than Christian charity and love. Even though the content of the correction was true.
   
   God Bless!

 

[David_Ancell]

ShanMcCatholic:

The reason I don’t accept the “ignorance” plea- is that #1 we should, I believe always verbally communicate to our priests when we feel something is wrong, giving them a chance to find out ore if they desire. And #2- I am an untrained stay at home- homeschooling mom-- and** I **know that things are wrong. It is is their job to know. If they were doctors or something like that they would be responsible for keeping up to date in their field, despite their busy over-worked schedules. And if they didn’t keep up to date they could be held as negligent. In a sense they are doctors— for our souls.

Some of these guys truly are ignorant, and some aren’t. It’s a well-known fact that many priests were trained by people whose ideas contained problems ranging from dogmatizing a personal opinion on something that was not a matter of faith to outright disregard for the authority of the Church. In many cases, this incorrect information was presented to them as being in conformity to the mind of the Church. I say this from my experience of having met some priests who insist on conformity to the Church’s teachings but meanwhile make outrageous statements.

I could go on for years about the different tactics that could be used in this situation. Some of these teachers insisted that the documents were “often misinterpreted” or that the issues were “complicated” (and only those who were “properly trained” could really understand them). Still others taught the laws of the Church as “the ideal” rather than the minimun standard that they are. Some would go so far as to say that the laws “didn’t work” in their particular ministry and that it is perfectly acceptable in such cases to deviate.

After years of training in the aforementioned mentality, these men were ordained. Fresh out of seminary and full of vigor, they went out bound and determined to correct all of the wrong ideas that people had. When questioned, they went back to the same kind of sources that they were trained with. No doubt they were told anything in the above paragraph about the documents that they were presented with. These priests had little reason to doubt what was presented to them, and this is in part because they had never seen many of the documents in question prior to entering seminary. Remember that this poor training happened before the advent of the Internet.

Add to this problem the fact that disciplinary action is very rare in the Church these days. The Vatican can produce millions of documents, but unless they address the specific problems with the specific people, one can take the documents and assume they don’t apply to them personally. I’ve seen similar things as these in my own secular workplace. One can take action while presuming the good will of the person involved. Once the lack of good will is reasonably ascertained, then more severe and more public action must be taken. This would allow problems to be corrected while reserving more severe sanctions for those who truly are rebelling against the Church.

So, we have to be careful about presuming evil will on the part of our priests. I say this as someone who is himself growing very impatient with the silence among our clergy about widespread sins that will have eternal consequences. I lament the fact that it is nearly impossible to get solid liturgical catechesis. However, I am unsure of how to approach it.

David

 

[dominicsavio]

peace be with you! Crusader, aren’t you a fellow beliefnet poster??? i just made my way over here and found this post. i think that i remembered reading it there. just curious.

in Jesus and Mary,
dominic savio

 

[Crusader]

dominicsavio:

peace be with you! Crusader, aren’t you a fellow beliefnet poster??? i just made my way over here and found this post. i think that i remembered reading it there. just curious.

in Jesus and Mary,
dominic savio

Indeed I am.

Dominus Vobiscum

 

[LindaS]

There is always hope. Let me tell you our story. In our parish, we had a pastor and an associate. The associate was very liberal and made changes in the liturgy which I know made it illicit, possibly even invalid, like changing the words of the Eucharistic Prayer. We went to the priest, who told us 1. If we didn’t like the way he said Mass, we could go elsewhere, and 2. People who went to Mass to worship God didn’t have any problem with the way he said Mass. So we went to the pastor who refused to take steps. He said the GIRM allowed “wiggle room”. We waited and prayed for a long time, nearly a year. Meanwhile we got a new, and younger pastor. Finally, after much prayer and pain, we sent a letter to the Bishop detailing what the problem was, what we had said, and what the priest had said. The Bishop passed it on to the new pastor with instructions to look into it. The pastor brought it to the associate and asked for reasons for the abuses in writing. The associate went on vacation and never complied, which was reported to the Bishop. When the associate returned from his trip, he was called into the Bishop’s office and told to clean up his act! He said Mass properly and finally requested a transfer. It was a very painful period for us. We tried to do everything in love, but I’m not sure it came across that way. So hang in there and do what you believe is right.

Peace,
Linda

 

[Crusader]

LindaS:

There is always hope. Let me tell you our story. In our parish, we had a pastor and an associate. The associate was very liberal and made changes in the liturgy which I know made it illicit, possibly even invalid, like changing the words of the Eucharistic Prayer. We went to the priest, who told us 1. If we didn’t like the way he said Mass, we could go elsewhere, and 2. People who went to Mass to worship God didn’t have any problem with the way he said Mass. So we went to the pastor who refused to take steps. He said the GIRM allowed “wiggle room”. We waited and prayed for a long time, nearly a year. Meanwhile we got a new, and younger pastor. Finally, after much prayer and pain, we sent a letter to the Bishop detailing what the problem was, what we had said, and what the priest had said. The Bishop passed it on to the new pastor with instructions to look into it. The pastor brought it to the associate and asked for reasons for the abuses in writing. The associate went on vacation and never complied, which was reported to the Bishop. When the associate returned from his trip, he was called into the Bishop’s office and told to clean up his act! He said Mass properly and finally requested a transfer. It was a very painful period for us. We tried to do everything in love, but I’m not sure it came across that way. So hang in there and do what you believe is right.

Peace,
Linda

Thanks be to God that your bishop and your new pastor finally dealt with this problem. Again, thanks be to God.

In my diocese, the exact opposite is happening. As the current bishop prepares to retire, the liturgical abuses are being piled-on with his blessing. I’ll guess why too. This current bishop was a former auxillary bishop under Roger Cardinal Mahony in Los Angeles. He’s extremely heterodox and it dosen’t appear that he has really accomplished much during his tenure here.

With Cardinal Mahony’s influence on the wane, we won’t likely be saddled with another hand-picked replacement from Los Angeles. I think the current bishop is trying to implement some changes in the hopes that they will “stick” before he retires in anticipation of a far more orthodox bishop – likley from outside of California.

Again though, thanks be to God for your bishop and pastor. It was really nice to read your note.

 

[CatholicRevert]

LindaS:

There is always hope. Let me tell you our story…
-snip- We waited and prayed for a long time, nearly a year. Meanwhile we got a new, and younger pastor.It was a very painful period for us. -snip-So hang in there and do what you believe is right. Peace, Linda

What a great ending! Hope can not be forfeited. Thank you Linda for what you’ve done, as well as sharing your story.

Who’s your bishop? I am in South Jersey too, and I am wondering how long I’ll wait for a sliver of needed change to become evident
Peace, CR

 

[cmom]

If you want a better Bishop get down on your knees and pray for one every day. Prayer groups in Denver did it for 10 years, and they are now blessed with Bishop Chaput.

 

[Crusader]

cmom:

If you want a better Bishop get down on your knees and pray for one every day. Prayer groups in Denver did it for 10 years, and they are now blessed with Bishop Chaput.

I wish Archbishop Chuck would come here to California.

 

[kellie]

Crusader, keep fighting for a proper Mass.

I will pray that it will happen.

Can you see the Bishop in person? It may be that he passed your letter to his secretary, and you were send a standard reply, as someone suggested.

Keep driving home the message that you do have adoration of Our Lord as number 1 priority at Mass, and that the stuff you are complaining about are distracting.

Love Kellie

 

[Crusader]

kellie:

Crusader, keep fighting for a proper Mass.

I will pray that it will happen.

Can you see the Bishop in person? It may be that he passed your letter to his secretary, and you were send a standard reply, as someone suggested.

Keep driving home the message that you do have adoration of Our Lord as number 1 priority at Mass, and that the stuff you are complaining about are distracting.

Love Kellie

Thank you for the words of encouragement. It may well be that the bishop signed a letter written by someone else, but I’m still amazed it got mailed with his signature.

At this point I’m going to send the entie package to Cardinal Arinze.

My position on the Mass is that it needs to be perfect, or we at least need to strive to make it perfect. Masses can be extremely different from one another – extremely solemn to charismatic, but hey cannot contain abuses.

Thanks again.

 

[misericordie]

In all seriousness, my advice to you would be : that you photocopy the letter you sent first to your pastor. Then, document all you sent the bishop and his response to that letter, etc. Now, Send all of it including the Pastor’s name, Parish name etc. TO: His Eminence Cardinal Arinze: Prefect: Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments: Vatican. I don’t know the exact address, maybe someone here can help you with that. Note: canon Law gives you the right.

 

[Crusader]

misericordie:

In all seriousness, my advice to you would be : that you photocopy the letter you sent first to your pastor. Then, document all you sent the bishop and his response to that letter, etc. Now, Send all of it including the Pastor’s name, Parish name etc. TO: His Eminence Cardinal Arinze: Prefect: Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments: Vatican. I don’t know the exact address, maybe someone here can help you with that. Note: canon Law gives you the right.

**His Eminence Cardinal Francis Arinze **
Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments
00120 Vatican City State
Europe

Believe me, I have thought about doing just that – I have even wrote the cover letter. Unfortunately I don’t have any expectation that it would do any good whatsoever. Absolutely none.

The Church is beginning to remind me of the US Government or perhaps the General Motors of the late 1970’s. Effete and/or incompetant leadership, a horribly bloated bureaucracy and ultimately zero responsibility by those who hold all the temporal power.

 

[The_Hidden_Life]

Actual letter I received today regarding my query about the lack of crucifix anywhere in the church.

*Hi (My Name),
Father John Smith asked me to respond to your E-mail of last week.
When St. John Smith Church was built the Archbishop reviewed the design and accepted it.
Any major building project comes before a board composed of several Priests, the head of Liturgy, the law representative and the director of building and maintenance.
The plans are exact even to the color of the paint and carpet. Type of pews and all other interior objects.
Their recommendation goes to the Archbishop for final approval.

The General Instructions of the Roman Missal #270, dated 1983, in print when this church was built states: “There is also to be a cross, clearly visible to the congregation either on the altar or near it.”
The Pastor at that time requested the use of the Risen Christ and the Archbishop accepted it.

Thank you for your concern

In God’s service,

Deacon John Smith*

My favorite bit is the “thank you for your concern” line as if they were truly grateful I’d pointed out this glaring omission (as I called it in my letter) to them.

Glad to know I’m not alone!
The Hidden Wife

 

[Crusader]

The Hidden Life:

Actual letter I received today regarding my query about the lack of crucifix anywhere in the church.

Hi (My Name),
Father John Smith asked me to respond to your E-mail of last week.
When St. John Smith Church was built the Archbishop reviewed the design and accepted it.
Any major building project comes before a board composed of several Priests, the head of Liturgy, the law representative and the director of building and maintenance.
The plans are exact even to the color of the paint and carpet. Type of pews and all other interior objects.
Their recommendation goes to the Archbishop for final approval.

*The General Instructions of the Roman Missal #270, dated 1983, in print when this church was built states: “There is also to be a cross, clearly visible to the congregation either on the altar or near it.” *
The Pastor at that time requested the use of the Risen Christ and the Archbishop accepted it.

Thank you for your concern

In God’s service,

Deacon John Smith

My favorite bit is the “thank you for your concern” line as if they were truly grateful I’d pointed out this glaring omission (as I called it in my letter) to them.

Glad to know I’m not alone!
The Hidden Wife

Deacon John Smith needs updating. The 1983 GIRM is now obsolete. The crucifix must include the Corpus of Jesus Christ. Sadly, your deacon just illustrated incompetence…

 

[PASCENDI]

1962Missal:

to Francis Cardinal Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments
Justin

Avoid the Italian mail system!
use this address:

Francis Cardinal Arinze
Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship
00120 Vatican City State
EUROPE

 

[PASCENDI]

Crusader:

**His Eminence Cardinal Francis Arinze **
Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments
00120 Vatican City State
Europe

Believe me, I have thought about doing just that – I have even wrote the cover letter. Unfortunately I don’t have any expectation that it would do any good whatsoever. Absolutely none.

The Church is beginning to remind me of the US Government or perhaps the General Motors of the late 1970’s. Effete and/or incompetant leadership, a horribly bloated bureaucracy and ultimately zero responsibility by those who hold all the temporal power.

Here’s the type of letter I received from the archbishop after sending something to him with a cc to Arinze.

Dear ________

I am in receipt of your letter to me of January 22, 2004. I’m sorry for the experience that you had at ___________ . Both the Roman Missal and the directions from the Archdiocese of _______ insist that no one is to be refused communion if they choose to receive it on the tongue or even kneeling. This was clearly in violation of our policies.

With kindest personal regards, I am

                                      Sincerely in the Lord,

                                       + Most Reverend ________
                                        Archbishop of __________

The letter also indicated some others that it was sent to including the offending priest.

 

[Cognovimus]

Crusader, I originally saw your post on EWTN and I felt your pain because I believe this is exactly how our pastor/bishop would handle such an issue. I’m told that the bishop has been aware of some issues in our parish since at least a year ago (liturgical issues and also heretical teachings) but we’re still waiting for corrective measures. It is likely that we’ll get a new priest in the next few weeks, and that may ease things a little. But the character of our parish is influenced most by the pastor and the parishioners, most of whom aren’t too interested in orthodox Catholicism. For those of us who are, it is a bit of a trial, but we stop short of leaving (barely). I’m glad to see you’re getting some good advice and some support here.

 

[frleo]

The Hidden Life:

Any major building project comes before a board composed of several Priests, the head of Liturgy, the law representative and the director of building and maintenance.
The plans are exact even to the color of the paint and carpet. Type of pews and all other interior objects.

*The General Instructions of the Roman Missal #270, dated 1983, in print when this church was built states: “There is also to be a cross, clearly visible to the congregation either on the altar or near it.” *

The Pastor at that time requested the use of the Risen Christ and the Archbishop accepted it.

Thank you for your concern

In God’s service,

Deacon John Smith

Perhaps the reponse to Deacon Smith and the Pastor is to mention your respect for the initial decision based upon the 1983 GIRM, but to follow up with asking where they are in the process of getting the approval to install a proper crucifix to meet the requiremenst of the current GIRM.

Picking out a Crucifix which ties in with the design of the church should not be too hard to do and I’m sure the proper Archdiocesan committees would have no problem approving such a simple, yet required change.

 

[Crusader]

Cognovimus:

Crusader, I originally saw your post on EWTN and I felt your pain because I believe this is exactly how our pastor/bishop would handle such an issue. I’m told that the bishop has been aware of some issues in our parish since at least a year ago (liturgical issues and also heretical teachings) but we’re still waiting for corrective measures. It is likely that we’ll get a new priest in the next few weeks, and that may ease things a little. But the character of our parish is influenced most by the pastor and the parishioners, most of whom aren’t too interested in orthodox Catholicism. For those of us who are, it is a bit of a trial, but we stop short of leaving (barely). I’m glad to see you’re getting some good advice and some support here.

Thank you for the kind remarks.

I am sensing something extremely negative in my diocese. Simply put, the bishop isn’t living up to his vocation when it comes to the ensuring the quality of the liturgy. He’s also instituting and supporting a great deal of abuses (that will be difficult to remove) a year before he retires.

I wish he simply had the fortitude years ago to simply state “I can do anything I want, and I WILL do anything I want.” At least in that case we could just wait until he passes through, or we could have made a real effort to have him removed some time ago.

I just pray that the Diocese of Monterey does not receive another hand-picked auxilliary bishop from the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, courtesy of Cardinal Mahony.

That would be tragic.