My Catholic Friend Receiving Anglican Eucharist

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Wannano said:
That was my guess actually. So where do you read that Christ celebrated Mass at the Last Supper? Would you propose that transubstantiation also took place at that Mass?
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Of course the Last Supper was the first Mass. To answer your next question, “This IS my body, this IS my blood” is pretty straight forward.
Did you read in John ch 6 about this? Jesus tells us this is not a symbol

Also, the sacrifice of the Mass has been misunderstood by Protestants. They will say we are sacrificing Christ all over again which couldn’t be further from the truth. Jesus Christ offers Himself to us in the Eucharist. This is the sacrifice of the Mass
 
Duane1966 said:
Actually, Christ is speaking through His Church. And His Church, which He gave the power to bind and loose, has bound the Anglican Eucharist. Now you may not believe the Catholic Church has this power, but then who does wield that power? You? Or has the power been lost? Right now, as I posted on the 33,000 denomination thread, probably over a billion Christians, though they will never say it, by their actions, believe that they themselves wield that power.

He may not honor or appreciate that desire. He may say to them: Why did you not listen to the ones I gave the authority to bind and loose? Then He may this:

For you did not hear those that I sent, so you did not hear ME.
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I notice with much interest that you preface Christ’s statements with the word MAY and not WILL. If Christ is speaking through His Church via Duane I think he would not namby pamby around and use the word MAY. God is not a God of confusion.
 
Michael68 said:
Of course the Last Supper was the first Mass. To answer your next question, “This IS my body, this IS my blood” is pretty straight forward.
Did you read in John ch 6 about this? Jesus tells us this is not a symbol

Also, the sacrifice of the Mass has been misunderstood by Protestants. They will say we are sacrificing Christ all over again which couldn’t be further from the truth. Jesus Christ offers Himself to us in the Eucharist. This is the sacrifice of the Mass
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Yes I reread John 6 this morning. I don’t see how you answered either of my questions directly. In which verse does Jesus tell us it is not a symbol?
 
The Eucharistic offering of God does not constrict itself without consecration, though heretically we cannot confine itself in the meaning the divine “bread of God”, this is the real presence, though we cannot fully understand the consecration meaning, we cannot suppose an existence theory that He is not there.
 
kdbueno said:
The Eucharistic offering of God does not constrict itself without consecration, though heretically we cannot confine itself in the meaning the divine “bread of God”, this is the real presence, though we cannot fully understand the consecration meaning, we cannot suppose an existence theory that He is not there.
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I am having trouble deciphering what you are saying. Can you help me further to understand?
 
I’ve been reading following this thread since the original post but haven’t had the time to throw my two cents in until now.

It seems this has devolved into a debate on the Real Presence. Is this what this thread is about? There are a gazillion threads here about that…

I don’t know if there is much I can add to this topic that hasn’t been said already - and said far more gently that I might say it. Holy Orders, Apostolic Succession, and the Real Presence vs. symbol have been covered here already.

Usually when discussing the Real Presence I like to refer to 1 Corinthians 11:27-29…

Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.

The only thing left that I can say is that if the OP’s friend should talk with her pastor and have HIM explain to her why she should not be doing this. If she is as faithful a Catholic as he says she is, she will make the effort to see him - and listen to him.
 
thephilosopher6 said:
What do you mean by “branch of the Church?” There is only one true Church, and the Anglican Communion is not it. The Anglican Communion cannot even be rightly called a Church since it lacks apostolic succession.
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And, of course, the Roman Catholic Church is one of several branches of the church as well along with the Lutherans and the Anglicans, etc. That’s why we Lutherans say (in the Apostles’ Creed):

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

But when we say that we believe in “the holy catholic church” (all lower case), we don’t mean the Roman Catholic Church, but the universal church that all Christians belong to including the RCC, the ELCA, the LCMS, the Episcopal Church, the Southern Baptists, the American Baptists, etc.

But that’s how we ELCA Lutherans look at it which is probably not how most Catholics see it.
 
Wannano said:
Yes I reread John 6 this morning. I don’t see how you answered either of my questions directly. In which verse does Jesus tell us it is not a symbol?
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Verses 47-56. Jesus tells us he IS the bread of life. This is not a symbol. He does not say " whoever eats this symbol has eternal life."
 
Michael68 said:
Verses 47-56. Jesus tells us he IS the bread of life. This is not a symbol. He does not say " whoever eats this symbol has eternal life."
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Jesus also says things like:

John 8:12, 9:5 I am the light of the world
John 10:9 I am the gate
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
John 15:1 I am the true vine

Now, most people don’t think that Jesus is literally a gate or a vine or a light or even a shepherd although Jesus says he is all those things. He is obviously speaking symbolically or metaphorically, not literally.
 
Thorolfr said:
Jesus also says things like:

John 8:12, 9:5 I am the light of the world
John 10:9 I am the gate
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
John 15:1 I am the true vine

Now, most people don’t think that Jesus is literally a gate or a vine or a light or even a shepherd although Jesus says he is all those things. He is obviously speaking symbolically or metaphorically, not literally.
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In any of these obvious metaphors did He say:
“Unless you eat this light, gate, shepherd, or vine you do not have life within you.”?
No, He did not. Apples and oranges friend
 
Michael68 said:
In any of these obvious metaphors did He say:
“Unless you eat this light, gate, shepherd, or vine you do not have life within you.”?
No, He did not. Apples and oranges friend
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Of course, if he had held up a gate and said “This is me”, one might have a better parallel.
 
GKC said:
Of course, if he had held up a gate and said “This is me”, one might have a better parallel.
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You can deny the “Real Presence” alll you want to. I won’t make that mistake.
 
Michael68 said:
Verses 47-56. Jesus tells us he IS the bread of life. This is not a symbol. He does not say " whoever eats this symbol has eternal life."
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Michael, you are probably tired of me, however, there are three unanswered questions now. Do you need me to reword them? Is there something you are not understanding in my questions?
 
Wannano said:
Michael, you are probably tired of me, however, there are three unanswered questions now. Do you need me to reword them? Is there something you are not understanding in my questions?
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I guess the question is on you now. Where in these verses does he say it is a symbol?
 
Wannano said:
I notice with much interest that you preface Christ’s statements with the word MAY and not WILL. If Christ is speaking through His Church via Duane I think he would not namby pamby around and use the word MAY. God is not a God of confusion.
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Agreed, He is not a God of confusion. I never said He speaks via me, which is why I used the word MAY. Can you show me where I have ever made the statement that Jesus is speaking through his Church via Duane?

But again, not one person on this thread has challenged my central point. Wannano, what individual or group wields the power to bind and loose you? What authority will you submit to, even if you disagree with what they bind?
 
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