"My church isn't spiritually fulfulling." Baptist

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Quoted (cut and paste) response by josie L:
Originally Posted by allischalmers
You have to understand that most baptist pastors do not stay with the same church for more than eight or ten years and with good reason.

No, you have to understand that priests don’t stay above 5 years with one congregation, some even leaving their loved ones behind (a great sacrifice) to preach the Word of God elsewhere (like impoverished countries).

A pastor wishes to see his congregartion grow spiritually.

As opposed to a priest who wishes his congregation to grow in numbers only.

Unlike catholic priest that say the same thing service after service,

I must be hallucinating then, because although Mass is structured, homilies in my Church are colorful and indicative of thoughtfulness and realistically sermonized for our times.

Baptist pastors (God bless them)

while priests are not.

have to perpare three or four sermons a week, 52 weeks a year.

And while they spend much of their time on preparing sermons, what do they do for the poor? See how condescending that sounds.

So to prevent stagnation they will move to another Church.

By stagnation do you mean boredom?

Maybe this has happen to your co-workers church

Maybe it is.​

josie L, this whole post is quite unfair. You are putting very unkind words into allischalmer’s mouth and making him sound quite awful. You cannot read his mind and know his thoughts. And if you have read other posts of allischalmers over the years, you would know that he has no evil motives and is not anti-Catholic. Quite the contrary.

It is good of you to defend the Catholic Church, but it is not good to condemn others for things that they are not guilty of.
Cmon CAT… it’s awful tough to put unkind words into allischalmers mouth… he does an excellent job of doing that for himself… I joined in 07’ but read on the forums for 2 years before that, and I’ve yet to see him say much if any kind word about the CC… It’s almost always a hit and run type of post that is aimed at attacking the Church… I actually find it amazing that he has so many posts considering his style… Of course he is a fellow Christian, but why such leaneance towards his attitude about the CC… at this point it’s sure all of his attacks have been refuted and he continues with them?

SD
 
I can’t speak for other priests but my own priest does not use the same homily for each sermon. He is a very good speaker.🙂
In my town the three baptsi peacher I know one has been here for 27 years another 16 years and the last one for 32 years
 
You are mistaken. The homily is prepared by each priest. In the same parish, we have 3 priests, each does the homily differently, when we have different Masses the same day. Each is based on Scripture, since we have one reading from the Old Testament, one from the Psalms, and one from the New Testament on each and every day of the year. And the complete rotation takes three years, since priests cannot pick and choose from the Bible…the ENTIRE Bible must be preached by every single parish, worldwide! No choosing by any human!

Of course, no priest will preach contrary to the Bible or the traditions, which is what I guess you mean by “the Magisterium”. I do hope you agree that is a VERY good thing! Imagine if any priest could just come up with some crazy idea out of nowhere [not the Bible or Church tradition] and preach it!

It did sound like you think that the opinions of any particular pastor should be much better than those of the entire Magisterium…hm, m…
This just not true. Your piests can not preach the tradition of the church and be true to the Bible at the same time. Both the Bible and your tradition are in conflict with each other.
 
This just not true. Your piests can not preach the tradition of the church and be true to the Bible at the same time. Both the Bible and your tradition are in conflict with each other.
Obviously you have no idea of what you speak.

Have you ever been to a Catholic Mass? Have you ever asked questions about the Mass? Have you done any research regarding the Mass?

I’m guessing that the answer to all of those questions is a resounding “No”

Maybe you should do a minimal amount of research on the subject before you speak on an issue. (Just a suggestion)
 
This just not true. Your piests can not preach the tradition of the church and be true to the Bible at the same time. Both the Bible and your tradition are in conflict with each other.
At a Sunday Mass, we have a reading from the Old Testament, The Psalms, The New Testament, and then a reading from one of the 4 Gospels. The homilist (priest or deacon) then give a homily based on all of those readings. The person giving the homily is guided by the Holy Spirit in preparing and presenting that homily. How can that be wrong?
 
Obviously you have no idea of what you speak.

Have you ever been to a Catholic Mass? Have you ever asked questions about the Mass? Have you done any research regarding the Mass?

I’m guessing that the answer to all of those questions is a resounding “No”

Maybe you should do a minimal amount of research on the subject before you speak on an issue. (Just a suggestion)
What will take precedence over the other, the traditions of the church or the Bible? If both are from God then they should never conflict. What do you do when they do conflict?🤷
 
What will take precedence over the other, the traditions of the church or the Bible? If both are from God then they should never conflict. What do you do when they do conflict?🤷
I have never seen that conflict. Can you give an example?

The only conflict I have ever seen is how protestants ignore John 6 where Jesus clearly institutes the Eucharist.

By the way, could you answer my previous questions? Have you ever been to a Mass?, etc.
 
I have never seen that conflict. Can you give an example?

The only conflict I have ever seen is how protestants ignore John 6 where Jesus clearly institutes the Eucharist.

By the way, could you answer my previous questions? Have you ever been to a Mass?, etc.
Really! Then you must not know your Bible very well. The Bible says nothing about praying to Mary, the need to go through a priest to have our sins forgiven, or the idea of purgatory. These are traditions that find no biblical support.
 
Really! Then you must not know your Bible very well. The Bible says nothing about praying to Mary, the need to go through a priest to have our sins forgiven, or the idea of purgatory. These are traditions that find no biblical support.
Purgatory is alluded to in the Bible (1 Corinthians 3:11-15, Revelation 21:27, Luke 16:19-31), it is also refered to as Sheol in the OT. Intercessory prayers are allowed and as such we can go to Mary as our intercessor. As for the forgivenness of sins (by a priest), Jesus himself stated this in John 20:19-23 to the apostles.
 
Cmon CAT… it’s awful tough to put unkind words into allischalmers mouth… he does an excellent job of doing that for himself… I joined in 07’ but read on the forums for 2 years before that, and I’ve yet to see him say much if any kind word about the CC… It’s almost always a hit and run type of post that is aimed at attacking the Church… I actually find it amazing that he has so many posts considering his style… Of course he is a fellow Christian, but why such leaneance towards his attitude about the CC… at this point it’s sure all of his attacks have been refuted and he continues with them?

SD
Thank you, SD Catholic, I myself felt his post was condescending, hence my “unfair” commentations. If I should be wrong, I rather think it his duty to rectify the situation with an explanation, it is a common courtesy to respond to the many posts directed at him.
 
In my town the three baptsi peacher I know one has been here for 27 years another 16 years and the last one for 32 years
It’s going to be different in every Baptist church. In the Conference Baptist denomination, at least when I was a child 40 years ago, the general rule was that the pastors moved on about every 5-10 years. It was very unusual for a pastor to stick around for longer than that. They were trying to avoid a “man-led” church or an “idol” phenomenon in which people identified the church with the pastor. This kind of thinking causes churches to fall apart when the pastor finally retires or dies.

But in other Baptists churches, especially independent ones that are started up outside of a denominational convention, consistory, or council, the pastor might be there for a lifespan.

Everyone needs to realize that there are literally hundreds of different kinds of Baptists. Years ago, my husband and I were applying to attend Urbana, a large evangelical Christian conference that is held every few years. The application contained a list of churches and denominations, and we were supposed to check the one that we belonged to. Well, there were about four different kinds of Lutherans, a few different kinds of Catholics (Eastern, Roman), a few different different kinds of Methodists, a few Reformed…you get the idea.

But under “Baptist”, there was a list that went on for several pages! It was really kind of funny. Our denomination, “Conference Baptist,” was right there in the “C’s.” But there were a LOT of other Baptists, and we had fun trying to figure out from the names what they taught. (Back then, there wasn’t an Internet or Google).

And these Baptist denoms are extremely diverse in beliefs and practices. Others have posted some of the doctrinal differences (OSAS vs. falling from grace, free will vs. predestination, etc.).

As for practices, some Baptist denoms are very conservative–“no slacks, no tracks, no blacks.” In these churches, often the women will wear long dresses, hair up in buns, and no makeup, and sometimes, they are veiled. Sometimes the men and women sit on opposite sides of the church. The children are often kept out of public schools and educated in small church-run schools.

Some Baptist denoms are “snake handling” and “poison-drinking.” There was a church like this down near Raleigh, North Carolina, and at least once a year, The News and Observer published an article about this church and showed gruesome pictures of men and women picking up rattlesnakes and drinking bottles of strychnine.

There are other Baptist churches that are so incredibly liberal that you wouldn’t even know you are in a Christian church. These are the churches that pray to “Father/Mother God” and teach that Jesus was just a loving human being who was martyred because he taught us all to love one another. Often these churches work hand in hand with pro-abortion organizations and other ultra-liberal organizations.

And then there are all the African American Baptist churches!

When you see the name “Baptist” on a church, the ONLY thing that you know is that this church subscribes to the idea that if there is any disagreement between the members, they should split and form a new church. Baptists are actually proud of their ability to split and re-form. This is the heart of being “Baptist”–the freedom to form new Baptist churches according to your own convictions about the Bible. That’s why the list of Baptist denoms is so huge.

But don’t ever make ANY other assumption about what the Baptist church in your neighborhood believes. You are probably wrong. The only way to know is to ask the pastor for a copy of their “Statement of Faith,” and also their Church Constitution (if they have one). THAT written document will tell you what the church teaches, which is not necessarily what the pastor and the members teach or believe!
 
It’s going to be different in every Baptist church. In the Conference Baptist denomination, at least when I was a child 40 years ago, the general rule was that the pastors moved on about every 5-10 years. It was very unusual for a pastor to stick around for longer than that. They were trying to avoid a “man-led” church or an “idol” phenomenon in which people identified the church with the pastor. This kind of thinking causes churches to fall apart when the pastor finally retires or dies.

But in other Baptists churches, especially independent ones that are started up outside of a denominational convention, consistory, or council, the pastor might be there for a lifespan.

Everyone needs to realize that there are literally hundreds of different kinds of Baptists. Years ago, my husband and I were applying to attend Urbana, a large evangelical Christian conference that is held every few years. The application contained a list of churches and denominations, and we were supposed to check the one that we belonged to. Well, there were about four different kinds of Lutherans, a few different kinds of Catholics (Eastern, Roman), a few different different kinds of Methodists, a few Reformed…you get the idea.

But under “Baptist”, there was a list that went on for several pages! It was really kind of funny. Our denomination, “Conference Baptist,” was right there in the “C’s.” But there were a LOT of other Baptists, and we had fun trying to figure out from the names what they taught. (Back then, there wasn’t an Internet or Google).

And these Baptist denoms are extremely diverse in beliefs and practices. Others have posted some of the doctrinal differences (OSAS vs. falling from grace, free will vs. predestination, etc.).

As for practices, some Baptist denoms are very conservative–“no slacks, no tracks, no blacks.” In these churches, often the women will wear long dresses, hair up in buns, and no makeup, and sometimes, they are veiled. Sometimes the men and women sit on opposite sides of the church. The children are often kept out of public schools and educated in small church-run schools.

Some Baptist denoms are “snake handling” and “poison-drinking.” There was a church like this down near Raleigh, North Carolina, and at least once a year, The News and Observer published an article about this church and showed gruesome pictures of men and women picking up rattlesnakes and drinking bottles of strychnine.

There are other Baptist churches that are so incredibly liberal that you wouldn’t even know you are in a Christian church. These are the churches that pray to “Father/Mother God” and teach that Jesus was just a loving human being who was martyred because he taught us all to love one another. Often these churches work hand in hand with pro-abortion organizations and other ultra-liberal organizations.

And then there are all the African American Baptist churches!

When you see the name “Baptist” on a church, the ONLY thing that you know is that this church subscribes to the idea that if there is any disagreement between the members, they should split and form a new church. Baptists are actually proud of their ability to split and re-form. This is the heart of being “Baptist”–the freedom to form new Baptist churches according to your own convictions about the Bible. That’s why the list of Baptist denoms is so huge.

But don’t ever make ANY other assumption about what the Baptist church in your neighborhood believes. You are probably wrong. The only way to know is to ask the pastor for a copy of their “Statement of Faith,” and also their Church Constitution (if they have one). THAT written document will tell you what the church teaches, which is not necessarily what the pastor and the members teach or believe!
Thank you Cat this was informative.
 
Really! Then you must not know your Bible very well. The Bible says nothing about praying to Mary, the need to go through a priest to have our sins forgiven, or the idea of purgatory. These are traditions that find no biblical support.
Before you make these accusations I would suggest studying what the CC teaches about them (through a Catholic source)and then do a search on the topic within this forum where they have been hashed out numerous times (you could also start a new thread for these topics but here they will become a trainwreck for the OP)… perhaps this will ease your misunderstandings about Catholic doctrine on these subjects… if nothing else atleast you can argue against something that you understand instead of relying on some anti-Catholic source to teach you what we do so wrong.

SD
 
Purgatory is alluded to in the Bible (1 Corinthians 3:11-15, Revelation 21:27, Luke 16:19-31), it is also refered to as Sheol in the OT. Intercessory prayers are allowed and as such we can go to Mary as our intercessor. As for the forgivenness of sins (by a priest), Jesus himself stated this in John 20:19-23 to the apostles.
Thank you. I was just getting ready to press the submit button, and our power went out.
 
Purgatory is alluded to in the Bible (1 Corinthians 3:11-15, Revelation 21:27, Luke 16:19-31), it is also refered to as Sheol in the OT. Intercessory prayers are allowed and as such we can go to Mary as our intercessor. As for the forgivenness of sins (by a priest), Jesus himself stated this in John 20:19-23 to the apostles.
The 1 Cor. 3 passage does mention purgatory. It is referring to roewards after salvation the we get for faithful service. These rewards can be lost but no our salvation. The Rev. 21 verse does not refer to purgatory either. This passage says nothing about purgatory. It makes a statment about those whoe names are written in the book of life and those whoes names are not. Context is very import my friend when understanding a pasage of scripture. The Lk passage says nothing about purgatory either. If the lLuke passage is talking about purgatory then those who go there can never leave it. Luke 16:26-27
26’And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, **so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ **NASU

You have just made my point. If tradition of your church are from God the Bible will support them. Purgatory is no found in the Bible.

Jesus did not say that we could pray to anyone else but to Him alone. We have one mediator be tween God and man and that Christ.
1 Tim 2:5-7
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimonygiven at the proper time.
NASU

John 14:13-14
13 " Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
NASU

John 15:16-17
so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
NASU

John 16:23-24

" In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you.
NASU

Again the Bible does not support the false idea of praying to Mary. So this tradition is not from God or we would find it in the bible.

The Jn 20 passage does not say that we have to go through priest to have our sins forgiven. It just talks about what the Apostles would be able to do. We have no apostles alive today. 1 John 1:8-10 tells us that if we confess our sins to God He will forgive them and restore us to fellsowhip. No sin sends a Christian hell except unbelief.
 
The 1 Cor. 3 passage does mention purgatory. It is referring to roewards after salvation the we get for faithful service. These rewards can be lost but no our salvation. The Rev. 21 verse does not refer to purgatory either. This passage says nothing about purgatory. It makes a statment about those whoe names are written in the book of life and those whoes names are not. Context is very import my friend when understanding a pasage of scripture. The Lk passage says nothing about purgatory either. If the lLuke passage is talking about purgatory then those who go there can never leave it. Luke 16:26-27
26’And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, **so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ **NASU

You have just made my point. If tradition of your church are from God the Bible will support them. Purgatory is no found in the Bible.

Jesus did not say that we could pray to anyone else but to Him alone. We have one mediator be tween God and man and that Christ.
1 Tim 2:5-7
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimonygiven at the proper time.
NASU

John 14:13-14
13 " Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
NASU

John 15:16-17
so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
NASU

John 16:23-24

" In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you.
NASU

Again the Bible does not support the false idea of praying to Mary. So this tradition is not from God or we would find it in the bible.

The Jn 20 passage does not say that we have to go through priest to have our sins forgiven. It just talks about what the Apostles would be able to do. We have no apostles alive today. 1 John 1:8-10 tells us that if we confess our sins to God He will forgive them and restore us to fellsowhip. No sin sends a Christian hell except unbelief.
Actually, we’ll have to disagree with your interpretation, but as far as purgatory, you might also want to check 2 Macabees 12:46.

Are you going to answer the questions that were posed to you previously?

Have you ever been to a Catholic Mass?
Have you ever asked questions about the Mass?
Have you done any research regarding the Mass?
Why do protestants ignore John 6?

6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Aren’t you ingoring God by ignoring this?

We anxiously await your answer.
 
This just not true. Your piests can not preach the tradition of the church and be true to the Bible at the same time. Both the Bible and your tradition are in conflict with each other.
Dear DL Clark…that is a pretty generalized statement…without saying exactly [or approximately at least] what part of the Tradition is in opposition [in your opinion] to the Scriptures that Tradition produced, it borders on breaking the 8th commandment [the one about bearing false witness with the intent to harm] that we are ALL bound by.

It seems to me like you heard this somewhere and simply accepted it at face value without inquiring. Not only sad, but actually sinful when you “let it out” and do false witnessing…

St. Irenaeus, I believe from the 3rd century, is a wonderful example of what the Church throughout history has protected and remembered, he mentions the Catholic [universal] Church by name.

The Council of Nicaea, in 325, produces the formula for the Trinity. That word is NOT in the Bible…Do you believe in the Trinity? Then, you believe in the Tradition of the Catholic Church…because belief in the triune God, three persons in one Godhead - Father, Son & Holy Spirit, comes from that council, not Scriptures.

Now, would you please give us at least one or two examples, [as I have done, it’s only fair], why you believe that Tradition counters the Bible it compiled?

In Christ,
Maria
 
The 1 Cor. 3 passage does mention purgatory. It is referring to roewards after salvation the we get for faithful service. These rewards can be lost but no our salvation. The Rev. 21 verse does not refer to purgatory either. This passage says nothing about purgatory. It makes a statment about those whoe names are written in the book of life and those whoes names are not. Context is very import my friend when understanding a pasage of scripture. The Lk passage says nothing about purgatory either. If the lLuke passage is talking about purgatory then those who go there can never leave it. Luke 16:26-27
26’And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, **so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ **NASU

You have just made my point. If tradition of your church are from God the Bible will support them. Purgatory is no found in the Bible.

Jesus did not say that we could pray to anyone else but to Him alone. We have one mediator be tween God and man and that Christ.
1 Tim 2:5-7
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimonygiven at the proper time.
NASU

John 14:13-14
13 " Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
NASU

John 15:16-17
so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
NASU

John 16:23-24

" In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you.
NASU

Again the Bible does not support the false idea of praying to Mary. So this tradition is not from God or we would find it in the bible.

The Jn 20 passage does not say that we have to go through priest to have our sins forgiven. It just talks about what the Apostles would be able to do. We have no apostles alive today. 1 John 1:8-10 tells us that if we confess our sins to God He will forgive them and restore us to fellsowhip. No sin sends a Christian hell except unbelief.
I’m sure you’ve heard this before, but maybe God will open your heart this time around.

When we pray “to” Mary, we ask her to pray for us. This is intercessory prayer–someone praying for someone else. We do the same thing when we ask others to pray for us.

Those in Heaven are more alive than we are here on earth.

The Bible talks about prayers for the dead.

If the dead are in Heaven, they, who are more alive than we are on earth, don’t need our prayers. What more good can we ask for them but to see the face of God?

If the dead are in Hell, we know that there is nothing we can do to help them. Hell is eternal separation from God. So what good would our prayers do?

So, who then, does the Bible refer to when it talks about praying for the dead? Obviously, it’s about praying for the dead (intercessory prayer, again) who can benefit from our intercessory prayer.

If all there is is Heaven and Hell, what dead person can benefit from this biblical intercessory prayer? Those being cleansed in purgatory, of course.

Of course priests are able to hear confessions. They (the apostles) were told about this, and their successors, the priests ever since, are, because of apostolic succession, able to hear confessions.

Wouldn’t God have left some way that future generations would be assured of forgiveness? Is sacramental confession only for those fortunate enough to have been alive in apostolic times? Would Jesus have left future generations without this sacrament? We know that the apostles commissioned others to work throughout the known world. These things were not just for the apostles. Are you saying, then, that they were just for one generation?

Maybe, with the help of God, you put away your hatred of Jesus’ church and you will open your heart to these biblical truths.
 
This just not true. Your piests can not preach the tradition of the church and be true to the Bible at the same time. Both the Bible and your tradition are in conflict with each other.
This also is a fale statement
 
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